Nato primers

[Buzzard II]

Not sure where this post goes, so any moderator please feel free to move this. Powder Valley (powdervalleyinc.com) has large rifle NATO primers in stock at $25.50 per 1000. I haven't used these yet (just ordered 5000), but have been told they are high quality and worth using. Good shooting! Bob

[edler7]

Never used the Tula primers, but I do use the CCI #34 in my M1. I would be interested in your opinion on the Tulas.

[Jim]

I bought several Ks last year. They work fine for me.

[Larry Gibson]

Tula primers are NATO primers?????

Larry Gibson

[burr7870]

Yes and have worked well in Garands, 03's, o3a3's no ftf or hangfires. I have fired about 2000 of these. I will buy more.


66602

[starnbar]

What Jim said.

[4719dave]

well there goes more money .................lol thanks

[Lead Fred]

You can keep those commie primers.

All my gas guns use CCI #34s only.

BTW if you plan on putting those in civilian cases you might have to alter the primer pocket.
Ever taken them out of lake city brass? Ive done 4000 of my 10k, and it isnt any fun.

[Love Life]

They work fine in civilian cases. I have used several thousand of the Tula NATO primers and their standard LRP.

[Larry Gibson]

See what happens.....pesky ruskies go capitalistic and they're into everything.......now they're in NATO??? Does Husama know about this????? I wonder if NATO knows about the ruskies making NATO goods, arms and ammuntions.....?????

Larry Gibson

[arjacobson]

This isn't directly related to the tula NATO primers..BUT All I have used for primers in the last couple of years has been TULA. sp-lr-sr-lp. Never had a problem with any of them and they all went in the primer pocket just fine. I have loaded: .223-300blk-7.62x39-7.62x45 czech-30-30-45Lc-45acp-.380-.38/357-9mm mak-7.62 tok-etcetcetc. I will order many more!!

[Love Life]

See what happens.....pesky ruskies go capitalistic and they're into everything.......now they're in NATO??? Does Husama know about this????? I wonder if NATO knows about the ruskies making NATO goods, arms and ammuntions.....?????

Larry Gibson

I don't know if they are making NATO ammo, I never checked, but I'm assuming these are the equivalents to the CCI Mil LRP.

[Ed in North Texas]

Tula primers are NATO primers?????

Larry Gibson

Yes, they have "TUL 7.62 NATO LARGE RIFLE (KVB762)" which is a Boxer primer.

Need to be just a tiny bit careful in what is ordered as they also have the Tula "TUL BERDAN (KV-762N) 7.62 NATO" .217" Tall Berdan primers for Western European Berdan primed brass (Radway Green 7.62 Nato I believe is .217, but most Brit brass, .303 and commercial, has other diameter primers).

[ph4570]

Tula is all I use these days. Never had an issue with them.

[Larry Gibson]

All said tongue in cheek guys. Guess I'm the only one from the Cold War days that appreciates the oxymornon of russiand making "NATO" anything..........

Might be fine LR primers and even have heavier cups for 7.62 automatic weapons but does that really make them "NATO"? Might as well call them "organic" or "green" for that matter........

Larry Gibson

[MtGun44]

The Russians are cheap with priming compound. With berdan primers from Tula the ones for
7.62x39 will NOT reliably light a 7.5 Swiss, even though they fit properly. They make a
different primer (same physical size) for 7.62x54R. Probably the catridge designation is
mostly about the quantity of priming compound.

Bill

[madsenshooter]

All said tongue in cheek guys. Guess I'm the only one from the Cold War days that appreciates the oxymornon of russiand making "NATO" anything..........

Might be fine LR primers and even have heavier cups for 7.62 automatic weapons but does that really make them "NATO"? Might as well call them "organic" or "green" for that matter........

Larry Gibson

No, their "green" primers are unleaded. They won't light a caseful of 4895. Had a lot of hangfires with RL19, and quite a few misfires considering I'm only on the 2nd 100 of 5000! DO NOT BUY THEIR UNLEADED!

[Ed in North Texas]

The Russians are cheap with priming compound. With berdan primers from Tula the ones for
7.62x39 will NOT reliably light a 7.5 Swiss, even though they fit properly. They make a
different primer (same physical size) for 7.62x54R. Probably the catridge designation is
mostly about the quantity of priming compound.

Bill

The .217x.097" primers KV-24N (7.62X39) are shorter than the .217x.105" primers KV-762N 7.62 NATO. There may well be a significant difference in the amount of primer compound in the x39mm primers, given that they are intended for igniting a much smaller case, but a lighter strike due to a shorter primer might also contribute to the ignition problems.

[Ed in North Texas]

All said tongue in cheek guys. Guess I'm the only one from the Cold War days that appreciates the oxymornon of russiand making "NATO" anything..........

Might be fine LR primers and even have heavier cups for 7.62 automatic weapons but does that really make them "NATO"? Might as well call them "organic" or "green" for that matter........

Larry Gibson

Larry,

I tend to look at it as really ironic that the Russians and other NSWP countries are making ammo, and firearms, for the western market. I certainly remember Kruschev's famous shoe routine, but they certainly haven't buried us (except burying ourselves in a mountain of debt).

[Ed in North Texas]

No, their "green" primers are unleaded. They won't light a caseful of 4895. Had a lot of hangfires with RL19, and quite a few misfires considering I'm only on the 2nd 100 of 5000! DO NOT BUY THEIR UNLEADED!

I tend to view anything labeled "green", or "eco-friendly", etc. with a great deal of suspicion. One obvious exception which comes to mind is what are now referred to as "green" all copper bullets.

[Larry Gibson]

I've not used any Tula primers for reloading so I've not an opinion on their quality. However, I do think the "7.62 NATO is a marketing scam......as with all the "tacti-cool" stuff for sale you could camo a dog turd and some sales guy would be offering up on YouTube or in a "survival" rag how to pick up which end so as not to get s**t on you fingers.........and some would buy it.

Again, not criticising the primers or any who buy/use them so please don't take offense. I know in "these times" we must get and use what we can.........just critical of the marketing.......

Larry Gibson

[Ed in North Texas]

I've not used any Tula primers for reloading so I've not an opinion on their quality. However, I do think the "7.62 NATO is a marketing scam......as with all the "tacti-cool" stuff for sale you could camo a dog turd and some sales guy would be offering up on YouTube or in a "survival" rag how to pick up which end so as not to get s**t on you fingers.........and some would buy it.

Again, not criticising the primers or any who buy/use them so please don't take offense. I know in "these times" we must get and use what we can.........just critical of the marketing.......

Larry Gibson

Perhaps it is more of a marketing gimmick, but various European NATO countries produced 7.62 NATO ammo using this specific Berdan primer size (not to mention the 8x57, 7.5x54 and 55 and, I learned today some .303). So perhaps it isn't totally a misnomer solely for marketing purposes. No matter the real reason, I'm glad I have access to the right size primers for the 7.62x51, 7.5x54 and 8x57 Berdan brass I otherwise would have sent to the scrap yard. And the Soviets didn't use this primer size, perhaps adding to the reason for the naming convention.

[Bob S]

I've not used any Tula primers for reloading so I've not an opinion on their quality. However, I do think the "7.62 NATO is a marketing scam......
Larry Gibson

It is a marketing scam. Only ammunition manufactured by members of the Alliance and IAW with the STANAG can accurately be called "NATO". Russia is not a member of the Alliance.

In the case of the Tula primers, it is also informational. Tula makes boxer primers for 7.62x39, and they are dimensionally different than Western large rifle primers, they will not interchange with "our" primers.

I have not used any Russian primers yet, although I do have a case of 5000 socked away from the last buyng frenzy since they were all I could get. Fortunately, I had enough old stock US primers to get me through the storm. Some top HP competitors were forced to use the Russian primers during the last drought, and several of them have continued to use them becuase of very favorable performance ... but I am not certain if they were Tula, of the "other" Russians.

The terms "7.62 NATO" "Mil Spec" and "National Match" are perhaps the most abused by today's slimy marketeers. Each has very specific, limited and legal definitions, but they seem to be applied to nearly everything but the real things, and most buyers are too dumb to know the difference.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[MtGun44]

Actually, the primers fired fine. Just did not ignite a normal load of powder in
7.5 Swiss until the flash holes were increased dramatically and made into 3 holes.
Just not enough primer compound. Primers were seated all the way, Swiss
rifles have good springs and firing pin protrusion.

No idea if this extreme caliber specificity of the berdan primers carries over to
the boxer primers or not. Never used boxer Tula primers, only berdan.

Bill

[Ed in North Texas]

It is a marketing scam. Only ammunition manufactured by members of the Alliance and IAW with the STANAG can accurately be called "NATO". Russia is not a member of the Alliance.

Tula does not produce any ammunition titled "NATO". They do produce a specific Berdan primer which they title "KV762N Large Rifle" and a Boxer primer titled "KVB762 Large Rifle". Both list a use of 7.62 NATO. Tula isn't the only primer manufacturer to use this title for a specific type of primer. If it is "slimy marketing" to state that your primer is for use in reloading 7.62 NATO, then CCI is also a "slimy marketer". Over the years I've noted lots of people shooting M1As who state that they need a different Large Rifle primer, with a harder cup, for their rifles to ensure they do not have "slam fires".

In the case of the Tula primers, it is also informational. Tula makes boxer primers for 7.62x39, and they are dimensionally different than Western large rifle primers, they will not interchange with "our" primers.

Checking their website list of primers, I didn't find any Boxer primer listed which specifically stated it was for use with the 7.62x39mm cartridge. I don't have any Tula Boxer LR primers (only Berdan, and I'm glad they are imported), but I would think their LR Boxer primers would work with our Boxer brass (except early Remington SR brass,and some Winchester had complaints about tight pockets with any brand of LR primer). I did find a Berdan primer listed for use with that cartridge.


Resp'y,
Bob S.

Just another perspective.

[Ed in North Texas]

Bill,

Were you using the "tall" primers, or the "short" primers? Just wondering if the short primers actually have less priming compound in the smaller size.

[Larry Gibson]

I have to slightly disagree with the "perspective" above. Look at the photo of the primer box posted earlier; it doesn't say "for use in" It says and infers they are NATO primers. That is a "scam" (I did not say "slimey").

BTW; I've fired thousands of reloads in various M1A/M14s over the last 40 years and never felt a "need" for a heavier cup primer; WLR (WLR-120s), Federal and CCI LR primers have always worked just fine. The problem is one of loading error (not seating the primer correctly - most often on a progressive loader), not of needing a harder primer cup (mechanical solution to the human error). BTW I use standard primers in 5.56 (ARs) and 7.62x39 (SKS/AKs) also w/o problems because I seat the primers correctly.

Again, the Tula primers may very well be good primers and worth using, especially if that's all you can get. My point is the contradiction of russians making and/or marketing the primers as "NATO" primers.

Larry Gibson

[45 2.1]

Not sure where this post goes, so any moderator please feel free to move this. Powder Valley (powdervalleyinc.com) has large rifle NATO primers in stock at $25.50 per 1000. I haven't used these yet (just ordered 5000), but have been told they are high quality and worth using. Good shooting! Bob

Powder Valley's listing is this: TUL 7.62 NATO LARGE RIFLE (KVB762) PRIMERS (1000)
which is about the same as the picture in post #5.
7.62 NATO is a cartridge. Some people have semi auto firearms that have the firing pin mark the primer on loading semi automatically. Sometimes those rifles have a problem slam firing from one of several causes. Whether or not these primers have a thicker cup has not been determined...either from reading/advertisement or measurement...has it? I would like to know myself, but I can tell you that these primers work quite well in 7.62 Nato and 30-06 military brass.

[Ed in North Texas]

I made the mistake of going to the Tula website and using the company's listing instead of Powder Valley's (or Graf's), and didn't pay any attention to pictures. I stand corrected on that issue, though CCI is also a "culprit" in that "scam" (and being a US company doesn't give them leave to use NATO either). I've not had problems with standard LR primer slam fires in FALs, Garands, ARs, AKs or MAS 49/56s (never accumulated the cash for an M1A), but we all know others claim it is a potential problem (probably more emphasis on "potential" than "problem").

I don't have a problem with the Russians, per se. Spent a lot of time training for what to do if they came through the Fulda Gap, and trying to figure out what they had and where it was. And their government certainly didn't have my best interests in mind in my 1966 brief time in RVN. I think Putin is closer to taking them down the Facist/National Socialist branch of Leftist ideology than back to the Communist branch (and maybe just a plain old Thugocracy). Other than previously subjugated nations (e.g. Poland, etc.), none of the "former" or present Communist nations should be considered our friend.

I sort of wonder how many NATO participating nations have contracted for items, or services, from Putin's Russia (not counting Gazprom Natural Gas supplies).

[WineMan]

I have experience with the Tula Berdan both the "short" (7.62x39) and the Tall (7.62 "NATO"). As MTGun44 said, the short ones will not work with full cases of medium powders reliably. Using Unique or 2400 every one went bang when it was supposed to and accuracy was good. In my AR in 5.56 I have used the Wolf (same company) 5.56 SR primer supposedly Magnum and hard cups with good results. I have a 10,000 case of Tula Green non lead which I have not used. There is this study http://wstiac.alionscience.com/pdf/WQV11N2_ART01.pdf that shows the lower of oomph for the Non Lead Russian primers. My sense is that I will save the Americans for full loads and use these non lead Russians for cast loads with faster powders.

Dave

[MtGun44]

Far from home now, cannot measure the primers, but the are marked 7.62x39, so
I suppose they must be the short ones. Saving brass berdan Prvi Partisan brass in
7.62x39 now to use up these primers eventually.

Bill