Swaging using pneumatics

[Capt. Senile]

After watching DukeinMaine's video of using a pneumatic air cylinder to de-rim his .22 brass, I was wondering if that setup could also be used to make jackets, seat cores or point bullets. Would air put too much pressure on the dies? Are BT's dies set up for slower, manual type leverage as opposed to quicker air leverage?

[rasto]

According my knowledge it is impossible to use it in another step then deriming. You need to feel the pressure of the lever and have to be precise what brute force of pneumatic cylinder can not do.

[Utah Shooter]

It has to be able to be done. I know that is how the big makers do it. May be a bit tricky on the ejection though.

[Capt. Senile]

BT's auto eject can be adapted to the air ram, I think.

[Sliver Shooter]

It would take precice adjustment as to length of stroke but it could be done. Adjust till you get acceptable results. I'm so darned sucited just to get my pneumatic derimmer going. I'm waiting for some parts and need to get some others, but it's coming together. I'll post pics when it's done.

[I'll Make Mine]

It has to be able to be done. I know that is how the big makers do it. May be a bit tricky on the ejection though.

Actually, commercial swaging is generally done with hydraulics. There are many reasons for this, but safety is top of the list; hydraulics won't slam to the end of travel if something breaks, don't act like a spring (if properly debubbled), and can move at low rates even with lots of pressure available (not to mention being able to provide much more force in a smaller cylinder size due to high pressure). Air- or electric-powered hydraulic pumps can do the jobs we want quickly enough for small production volumes (a couple hundred bullets an hour, perhaps) without costing an arm and a leg, and once set up and sealed, can be expected to run for many years without leaking or requiring significant maintenance (especially if a little care is given to methods of keeping dirt out of the fluid).

CH used to sell a hydraulic swaging press, but it was hand pumped; I can see how anyone could produce as much as a hundred bullets an hour that way. Hook up the same press to an powered pump, and it'll run as fast as you can insert the parts and remove the finished bullets.

[alfloyd]

I have a 5 inch dia. air ram on my RCBS Rock Chuck press.
I adjusted the stroke internally to match what is needed for the Rock Chuck press.
I can do all the steps of swagging for the 22 cal slugs.
This includes:
De-Rim 22 LR brass, Swage core slugs to correct weight, Seat the cores into the jacket, and point form the slug.

This is all done with air.
I have the Blackmon swagging mod done to my press, this way it has the ejection system.
I use Dr Blackmon's style of dies.

So you can swage all the steps needed to make 223 slugs from 22LR brass with air.

Lafaun

[Mozz]

Hi Lafaun

Any chnace of uploading photos of your set up? A picture paints a 1000's words. I use hydrolics to make lead wire, I could use the same power pack to power a Rockchucker I have just gained...

[phil3333]

pics of that would be awesome,I have been kicking around the idea of adapting a swage press to hydraulics

[Lizard333]

This makes sense. The hardest part of the operation, most force, is during derriming. If your press can do that, the other stuff is a piece of cake.

Here's my only concern when doing bullets made from 22LR jackets. Even if you weigh them, they will all take approximately the same amount of force during the various steps. Some will take more, some less. With a little practice, your going o FEEL it. You loose this with a pneumatic setup.

Commercial jackets would be a much better setup for this. They are all the same product, and are very consistent from piece to piece.

Just something to keep in mind.......

[alfloyd]

I will try to get photos of my press.
If you sort the 22 brass by manufacture, then it works better with the air cylinder press.
I still sort the finished product after point forming to remove any that have a large tip.

Lafaun

[alfloyd]

OK, here are some photos of my air cylinder set up.

66749 Air cylinder with mounting arms attached.

66756 The new ram I built.

66750 Cylinder mounted to the press.

66751 Air control valve.

66752 Foot activated switch.

I replaced the link arms on the press with ones mounted to the air cylinder.

Then I made a new ram that screwed onto the air ram and fit into the press. The new ram is threaded at the top to accept the style of dies I use. It also has a slot in it to work with the auto eject system of the dies.

I got the air control valve at a truck supply house. It works on 12 volts DC, so I have a power supply for it. I need to get a better muffler for it as it is quite noisy now.

The foot switch I got at Harbor Freight. This way I have both hands free to use when I am working on the press. The default position of the ram is in the down position.

I hope that this shows what you wanted to see. If you need other photos, just let me know.

Thanks
Lafaun

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I like how you mounted that to the press. That's pretty slick.

[aaronraad]

Look at how Berger make theirs.

You'll notice a signifcant number of gauges and limit switches to replace our 'feel'. It still doesn't prevent the odd projectile with a split jacket from getting through, which would suggest they are focused on controlling the maxima and not necessarily the minima of the stroke and pressure limits. I know I can 'feel' a split jacket during pointing and eventually Berger will be able ot afford an optical in-line inspection system to pick-up a hair-line split.

Air or hydraulics, depends if you're chasing speed or power? Neither is easier to control but some are better suited to one sitiation than another. Hybrid systems try to take advantage of both. It's also worth noting what's happening in robotics if you want to duplicate that 'feel'.

[deltaenterprizes]

Corbin sells a hydraulic set up for swaging but it is pricey