"Lubri-sizer" or Lee sizing dies?

[Woodsman 22]

Okay, first let me apologize if this is not the right forum for the question I have- I couldn't decide if it should be here or in "reloading". As you can see from my low post count, I am new to boolit casting.
Basically, I am unsure if I should go with Lee sizing dies for the (at present three) calibers that I am going to reload for, or if I should invest in something like a Lyman 4500 Lube Sizer Bullet Sizer and Lubricator with Heater? And I confess that I am ignorant of the advantages and disadvantages of each system, although at first glance the Lee system does seem to make more sense from the perspective of pushing the bullet upward and not needing special "top punches" for the process. Lyman seems to have a good name and make quality products, but from product reviews at Midway I get the impression that Lee's stuff is "variable" in quality. So I am on the fence on this and don't know which side to jump off of! Can someone enlighten me as to the advantages of the (much more expensive) Lyman product vs. the Lee system? Thanks in advance for any replies.

[357maximum]

If I could go back in time and smack myself everytime I could have bought a STAR sizer and did not....I would have some pretty serious head trauma by now.

Panlubing works, the lee system works, the lee system combined with a lyman sizer that just lubes works good for long skinny boolits.....but like I said if I could start over and retain the knowledge...I would have owned a STAR one ell of alot sooner. I will have another one as soon as I can afford it. One stroke perfection with minimal fuss...what's not to love?

[Woodsman 22]

357 Maximum; Thanks for the reply, it is appreciated (I know that "newbie" questions annoy some of the old hands at this stuff) but what is the advantage of sizing nose first as opposed to the Lee "bottom up" approach? Why use two different products for the same operation? I would take your advise about the Star sizer unit, but I gather they are very expensive and hard to find, especially the sizer dies, and I am on a beginner's budget (my wife is having conniptions over my spending on this hobby already). Again, thanks for your reply and bearing with my elementary questions.

[Raven_Darkcloud]

I did the pan lube then got a lyman 45. Nuf said.

[runfiverun]

pain lubing does alright with a sizing die.
the push through dies have some advantages with the longer boolits.
the lyman types seat gas checks on some boolits better.
i went from a lyman to a star in one day and don't regret it,although i wish i would have kept it sometimes.
even with three stars i still tumble lube a couple of my boolits.

my advice is pick a style, learn it, and use it.
then look at learning another.

[VHoward]

The Lee bullet sizing dies work well. They are $20 and come with a bottle of alox. You can lube and size a lot of bullets with one of them while you are saving up for something else. It's cheap and gets you started.

[jcwit]

I did the pan lube then got a lyman 45. Nuf said.

Did the tumble for awhile, then did the same as Raven. Best decision I've made as far as sizing and lubing.

[TXGunNut]

I like the Lee tumble lube and sizing system for TL boolits, I tolerate the Lyman for grease groove boolits. If I lubed more GG boolits I'd read up on the Star, sounds like an excellent system.

[462]

I started with a new 4500, because I didn't want to have to deal with pan lubing, though I did try it, nor Alox in it's various concoctions, and due to its dubious performance. I use two different lubes, one for rifles and one for handguns, so an older 45 was added.

I consider the cost of nose punches and sizing dies as part of the hobby, no different than a mould, tool or any other piece of equipment.

[oldfart1956]

Guess I'm the odd duck here. Started out pan lubing and using Lee push-thru sizing dies. (they size nose first by the way) Kinda slow but puddy much idiot-proof. Good for me! Then ended up with a Lyman 450 in a large buy and thought I'd found heaven. Found out it's a pita to change dies constantly and they're really expensive and hard to modify. I can hone the Lees' out to any size I require. A single Lyman die is $30/$40....Lee is under $20. Rather than take up space on the bench I mount the Lyman on a work-mate when needed. Which is kind of a pita too. Then I tried the Recluse loob. Works on regular boolits as well as tumble loob design boolits. Faster than pan lubing and I'd advise buying it rather than making it. Unless like me you're up to your eyeballs in them little bottles of Lee alox. Now I use both. The Lyman with Felix and the Lee with Recluse. I compare results on the range and pick which one works better. I've found very few loads that actually work better using the Lyman/Felix over the Lee/Recluse lube....but...sometimes it does matter. For starting up...I'd go with the Lee/Recluse system. Inexpensive, surprisingly accurate, easy to modify. Just my opinion of course. Audie...the Oldfart..

[Mk42gunner]

Dang Audie,

I don't know where you were buying your Lyman sizing dies, but Midsouth has them (RCBS or Lyman) for under $25.00. I do balk at paying almost $10.00 for a top punch; but a short section of 1/4" rod makes a good one for flat nosed boolits, and the perfessor is cheaper if you can't make your own.

Woodsman 22,

I have three lubrisizers right now, an RCBS Lubamatic and two Lyman 450's, one of which needs a few parts. I like the RCBS better, but both brands work and the dies interchange. I also have a few Lee sizing dies. One thing about the in and out style, they are relatively slow.

Robert

[Woodsman 22]

First I want to thank you all for your input and your patience with a newbie like me. I really appreciate the coaching from those who have "been there and done that". Thinking about all your advice, I think I am going to go with the Lyman 4500 since it seems like a good system and can seat gas checks too.

[357maximum]

357 Maximum; Thanks for the reply, it is appreciated (I know that "newbie" questions annoy some of the old hands at this stuff) but what is the advantage of sizing nose first as opposed to the Lee "bottom up" approach? Why use two different products for the same operation? I would take your advise about the Star sizer unit, but I gather they are very expensive and hard to find, especially the sizer dies, and I am on a beginner's budget (my wife is having conniptions over my spending on this hobby already). Again, thanks for your reply and bearing with my elementary questions.


Just base first sizing (lyman/rcbs/saeco) on the the right/wrong long skinny boolit can banana bend the boolit a slight amount....not gonna help you with accuracy there. Before the star I had a "set" of dies for my LONG SKINNIES....one lee push through the size I needed them sized to and a 1tho over lyman die to apply the lube after they were sized/ gaschecked.....very very accurate system...it just requires a bit more time on the operators part to do everything twice. Short stubby pistol/lg cal rifle boolits never seemed to bother with the banana syndrome.

Push through sizing via the lee and then panlubing can accomplish the same thing...proably almost as fast. Spending $260 bucks on a SanDiego Star and $372 bucks on 6 die/punch/locknuts gained me alot of time back into the time folder is all. It does not do a better job than the lee/lyman 2die trick, but I can do bulk batches now in the same time it took for small batches with the other system. In fact I find myself intentionally casting/doing HUGE batches of everything now. I have some designs cast/lubed/checked that I will not have to cast more for, for many years to come, and before I was barely replacing stock, or coming up short of boolits to load.

The $$ spent on the STAR gained me time and inventory...nothing else.

[Any Cal.]

I get 400 boolits per hour pan lubing or with a lubersizer. For more than that you need a Star or tumblelube.

The lubersizer is less messy and does not require as much lube to start with.

Pan lubing is ultra cheap if you make your own lube w/ scraps.

If you shoot low intensity loads like .38 and .45, tumble lubing may be the hot set-up, especially if you don't need to size your bullets.

The Luber and dies will hold some value, so it isn't like you are throwing your money away if you don't like the system. Just sell it and try something else.

[detox]

Get the Lyman, it comes with a gas check seater. I use a 30 caliber top punch that has been ground flat on the end (no cup). This modified top punch will prevent any misalignment from happening and will work with any flat point boollit larger than .308.

[cbrick]

what is the advantage of sizing nose first as opposed to the Lee "bottom up" approach?

Just for clarification, the LEE and the Star are both nose first straight thru sizing. With the LEE mounted in a press the bullet is pushed up and thru the die and out the top. With the Star it's still nose first straight thru but the bullet is placed in the die nose first and pushed down and out the bottom.

With both of these sizing dies you get better concentricity than with the in & out sizers because you have a flat punch on a flat bullet base pushing it all the way thru. With the in & out sizers your dependent on a nose punch griping the shape of the nose and if it is at any angle at all that is exactly how it will be sized. With the in & out sizers you need a nose punch for every single nose profile that you have. With the nose first straight thru sizers you need a flat punch for each caliber regardless of how many bullet styles you have in that caliber.

An important consideration in purchasing your first Lubrisizer is die cost. If you start out with say the Lyman and invest in several dies and several nose punches and decide down the road sometime that you want to upgrade to the Star you need to re-buy all the dies, though not the nose punches. If that is possible then it is better to cry once over the price than cry twice. Think hard about this while just getting started.

Rick

[joesig]

It depends on what calibers you loading for. That would help us guide you.

I haven't tried pan lubing, yet, but use both the Lee and RCBS (like the Lyman)

For boolits with a gas check that I intend to drive hard, I would use the RCBS.

For lighter rifle loads, I have use the Lee die to seat the check, slightly size and then tumble lube.

For plain base boolits such as 45ACP (Lee 200 and 230 TL), some 44 (Lee 240-TL) and 357 (Lee 105) , I tumble lube and would prefer not to size them. If I did, I would use a Lee die. Pistol boolits with a gas check, most likely would be run through the RCBS as well.

Lee dies could stand a slight polish. RCBS and Lyman are plug and play.


Speaking of sizing, it is best to read about how to measure your throats so you know what size die you need, if you even need to size at all. Proper fit will go a long way to your shooting satisfaction. This is something I learned from this forum after a false start.

[milrifle]

I am new to this as well. I started with the Lee push through and tumble lubing (For .30 cal rifle). Then I decided I wanted to try a home made lube recipe found on this site, so I began pan lubing. That quickly became a pain, so I invested in a Lyman 4500 to put my new lube in, although I had read where some were off centered right from the factory. I figured that surely had to be the exception and it would never happen to me. Well......it happened to me. My brand new 4500 sizes off center. I sent it back to Lyman. They sent it back saying nothing was wrong. I am very disappointed in it and with them. I have managed to turn a pilotless top punch on my lathe and just stick it to the upper ram with bullet lube. I size in the Lee and lube in the 4500 with this top punch that is off center from the ram enough to detect with the naked eye. You can also see how much the Lyman top punch is off center from the die with the naked eye. That is with their top punch floating and held in by bullet lube. Tighten the set screw and it is worse. I don't know how they can say there was nothing wrong with it when I can see the problem with the naked eye. But beware. Lyman 4500 quality is severely lacking, as is their customer service.

[USMC87]

I started off using the lee sizers and tumble lubing, I have alot of those bullets in a bucket awiting smelting. I bought a star and have never been happier, Less mess and with air feed and a self made heater I would'nt trade it for any other. I had to wait 8 weeks to get it but I cast a bunch of bullets in that time and had them ready. My suggestion would be to try and find somebody close and see if they would let you come by the shop and try one out before you buy but you won't be dissatisfied with a star.

[H.Callahan]

Although it has been skirted here, my approach would be to decide how you are going to lube first, and let that dictate your sizing method. For example, if you intend to tumble lube, the the push through dies (ie, Lee) make a lot of sense. If you want to put (semi) solid lube in conventional lube grooves, then I would look at some sort of lubisizer. While pan lubing with push through dies is an option, in MY opinion it is a lot of work that can be done easier and faster with a lubisizer (although, admittedly, if one primarily tumble lubes, but infrequently wants to put lube in lube grooves, this option can make sense).

[logeorge]

FWIW: You can size bullets nose first in a Lyman 450. Take off the ejector punch and the "strap" that actuates it. Make, or have made, a flat ended punch to fit in place of the top punch, slightly under the inside diameter of the sizing die and long enough to allow the bullet to be started nose-down into the sizing die. Lightly lube the bullets and push them through as you would when sizing normally. The punch can't be made long enough to push them all the way through, but the next bullet will do it. Push the last one out using a smaller bullet, a piece of brass or aluminum rod, wood dowel or whatever. You can't lube this way(or I haven't figured out how), but it could save you the price of another set-up if you want to try nose-first sizing to see if it helps. L. O. G.