Cast bullet data for 7tcu

[tommyn]

I have a friend who is getting into contender shooting and has a 7tcu. He only shoots cast bullets. His mold cast 135 gr 7mm bullets and he sizes them .285. He has been shooting H-4198 and not getting very good results. Anyone have any ideas of loads to start with. Its just for 50 yd target shooting not hunting. Thanks.

[bobthenailer]

i hope your friend has better luck shooting cast out of his 7mm tcu than i did ! i tried 3 different moulds 145 to 160 gr range, and 8 different powders , it wouldent even shoot consistant 2 1/2 inch group at 100 yards . but it does shoot jackted very well , i had the same cast bullet problem with a tc 32/20 trying to get it to shoot cast , another wast of time! but my rpm xl in 32/20 loves cast ! my 7mm ishma in a xp shoots all the cast bullets well . bob

[S.R.Custom]

TC throats are probably the worst in the industry, and generally speaking, are very poor cast bullet performers. All the Contender barrels that I've seen that actually shot well with cast bullets were actually made by someone else (SSK, rechamber jobs by a smith, etc...)

[Glen]

TCs can shoot cast bullets well, but only if the cast bullets are sufficiently oversized to fit the oversized throats that TC tends to cut in their barrels. For example, my 6.5 TCU barrels shoots cast just fine, but only if I size them .268".

[Jon K]

I will open the can of worms, T/C chambers are all over the map. I have had several, and still have one. All shot cast boolits well. The best performance came from the RCBS 145 Sil mold. Single digit sd and low es.

tommyn,

Try starting with 14.5 gr/H4227, Fed 205 primer seated up to engrave the boolit or -.020 off the lands. Don not seat GC below the neck. 5744, 4759, 4198, RE-7 also work well.

Jon

[tommyn]

I will advise him to size a little larger. As far as TC chambers I have only had one bad one. I have mostly custom barrels but have had some great factory TC chambers. If one listens to one fellow (no names) TC does nothing right and he can fix it, but you need to send him money for the problems you probably don't have. I appreciate the replys and will forward the information. Thanks

[hivoltfl]

My shooting bud has two contender barrels in this and he shoots 135gr Lyman cast in it most of the time, he gets better results with his 14 inch barrel than he does with his ten inch, I watched him shoot a 1 inch five shot group with the ten inch this afternoon and mentioned your post and asked him if he would share with you, he has a hard time finding a cast load that will shoot well and has spent lots of time and money working this load out.
He casts 4 parts WW to one part lino, and a 4 or 5 foot piece of tin solder as needed. (this guys used to work in a print shop and has tons of lino) water dropped and sized one thou over bore size, 22.7gr of IMR4064, CCI SR primer and sets them out to just touching the rifleing. I make no claims other than it shoots well in his and as usual I would start low and work to it even though it shows no pressure signs in his gun. good luck and hope this helps, BTW this guys is a 4064 nut, shoots it in everything with a bottleneck case.

Group was at 50 yards with a rested barrel.

Rick

[35remington]

A great deal of the criticism of T/C barrels is well founded.

My luck with T/C barrels and lead has been poor, but a casting of the chamber/throat will show why. Oftentimes the neck is cut overlong, and no throat whatsoever is present, just a very short, sharp taper from overlong neck to rifling origin. Many of the Contender barrels I've had would NEVER need their brass trimmed, the neck section was just cut that deeply.

I will second the idea of an oversized (but still chambers easily) bullet as being a possible help, but in these throatless Contenders it takes up the slop between the neck and chamber and helps the neck act as much like a throat as it can. A proper throat would be much better than no throat and excessive neck.

Some Contender barrels are just dogs for lead no matter what you try, and believe me, there isn't anything anyone can think of that I didn't try in some of mine.

Careful use of a throating reamer works wonders on T/C's if you want to shoot lead.

Tommym, you're speaking of Bellm. Many T/C barrel problems ain't imaginary. He wouldn't have the business he does if T/C didn't have some problems with their chambers. He exaggerates a bit on T/C's quality (or lack thereof) but not all that much. A lot of the T/C barrels are basket cases and need improvement to shoot lead.

Load development can only do so much if your chamber/throat are sub par. Accuracy may still suck with carefully developed loads. A gun that only shoots one load or some improbably weird combination has something wrong with it.

Just because a barrel shoots jacketed reasonably well doesn't mean it's a good barrel. While experimenting I deliberately butchered the throats of some of these T/Ç barrels. (They had other issues that led to their rechambering eventually). You can hack out the throat to some really bizarre dimensions and they will still shoot jacketed pretty well.

Lead requires more finesse. Oftentimes T/C barrels don't have it.

[tommyn]

As far as lead you might have a point. I shoot nothing but contenders and have for many years. I have meet the man you mentioned and thats all I will say. Contenders are a different ball game and one I have tried to master. Ain't got there yet but working on it. I have had factory218 bee, 222, 223, 223ai, 7tcu, 357 max that were nothing but outstanding. I have custom barrels now by OTT and one factory 223ai that is a under half inch shooter at 100 yds. There is no need for most of the stuff sold to cure problems you don't have. I'm a new member here so sure don't start flames with anyone. 45nut knows me well and my attention to details concerning contenders. Most of the problems stated by others are solved by paying details to loading methods and proper setup to shoot groups, such as rests, rear bags. Thanks for your input.

[35remington]

No flames intended or taken here, so don't worry about it in that respect.

I've got OTT's myself. That is a more friendly lead shooter in my experience.

Trouble is, all the anal retentive loading methods and proper setup in the world won't help some of these T/C barrels shoot lead. I've got pages and pages and pages of loads that failed.

One of the great cast bullet fallacies is that any barrel can be made to shoot lead bullets. One of the the great cast bullet facts is that oftentimes you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear in regard to barrels and lead bullets.

Jacketed is another matter.

[tommyn]

Lead is new to me in contenders. I have a MGM 45acp barrel that is shooting lead outstanding at 25 yds. I had to shoot 100 rds of jacketed before the barrel quit leading and shooting poor with lead. Now its a barrel to be proud of with 185 gr lead bullets. My friend with the 7tcu barrel is going to try some of the above commets to see if it helps.

[hivoltfl]

Most all of my TC barrels shoot cast better than my ability, I did have one a 7-30 Waters that I gave up on and sold, it would shoot one hole groups with jackets but was all over the paper with cast, I worked on it for over a year and I KNOW I spent over a grand on it, never did make it shoot even close.

Rick

[Topper]

I've got an article by Wayne Blackwell on loads for 7mmTCU cast boolits.
It's from March-April 1982.
For Lyman 287346GC the most accurate load listed is 3/4 inch using 18gr of RL-7 (velocity 1,421) and the other 3/4 inch group was shoot with 26.5gr of Win748 (velocity 1763).
I always had decent groups with both cast and jacketed out of a 14' barrel I once had using H4895.

[Dale53]

The NRA did a nice article on reloading the TC's some years ago (back when the American Rifleman was quite helpful). They were trying very hard NOT to bash TC, but stated that the throats were all over the place. It is just a fact. I don't begin to understand why something as straightforward as throating (and known to any good gunsmith) is not automatically performed at the factory. Sad fact, it is NOT.

On the other hand, I have several TC barrels that shoot lead well. One of them is a .30 Carbine barrel. I was one of the early ones that experimented with heavy bullets (170 grs) in the Carbine barrel for Hunter Pistol. The cartridge, as loaded with heavy bullets, was a success. My shooting was less so:( . However, the load gave me every chance to shine but I was just not QUITE up to it[smilie=1: . It is a GOOD game, however. I think my best match was 35x40 and mostly hovered around the high twenties and low thirties.

Dale53

[tommyn]

Update on buddys 7tcu barrel shooting cast bullets. He had gotten a set of Horandy dies and started using them instead of the RCBS dies he had. We noticed the necks were not straight using the H dies. He changed back to the RCBS dies and seated the bullets out just short of the lands and wow he is a happy camper now. Thanks for the help.

[tommyn]

Break through on the 7tcu with cast bullets. My friend started using 7 gr Unique and its a one hole 50 yd load. Darnest thing I ever saw. Not been put through a chono yet but like shooting a 22lr.

[jhalcott]

glad your friend found a load he likes. I have 3 TC/U barrels (10,14 & 21") The "throats are all different. The chamber diameter isn't the same either! I HAVE gotten decent ,sub 2", accuracy in them. I use a couple different powders and a fat 112 grain .270 bullet. The mold drops a .282 bullet from a Lyman #2 alloy. I have used LLA, Felix and Teflon tape on them with success. WW 748 and IMR 3031 powders work in the 21" quite well.

[hivoltfl]

I think I will post one more time on this, First off I want to say I have the Contender SICKNESS! I will aslo say I have to agree that T/C chambers leave something to be desired, I have a custom shop 30-30AI 24inch barrel and a 14inch in the same caliber, brass fired in one will not even come close to fitting in the other. I have a 23inch 223 and a 14inch 223 that will interchange just fine.

Bellm's website helped me greatly with a problem I had, took me 5 minutes to fix after reading some of his help pages and I thank him for that. Yes it was a problem I myself had created (DUH) but I will never make that mistake again.

Tommyn my shooting bud has really tightend his 7 TCU up in both barrels by sizing right down on 284 what his barrel measured, go figure. Same load I gave you before just sized down one thou. it might be worth a try, who knows? Ok thats my 2 penny's worth.

Rick