PDA

View Full Version : Lee 30-150-TL-PB in my Marlin .30-30



Maven
08-27-2007, 05:04 PM
I just returned from a 2nd range session with the group-buy CB in the Marlin #336 (Microgroove) with disappointing results on both occasions. The first time I sized it to .310", which the rifle prefers, and used 14gr. WC 820. Today I tried 15gr. and 16gr. loads (Don't even bother with 16gr.) of 820, but sized to .311". Accuracy was OK for the first 5 - 7 shots with the 15gr. charge, but it worsened appreciably for the remaining 15- and 16gr. loads: 6" - 8" patterns and several flyers (through the frame of my target stand of course) were typical of today's test. The culprit was leading, but with the fine hand of excess speed also evident. Using less WC 820 than I did is OK, but you'll find it doesn't burn very efficiently in the .30-30 (or larger) case: Dirty with high extreme velocity spreads. If I try this CB in the .30-30 again, it will be with something like Blue Dot, but probably with no more than 12gr.

If you're thinking of using this design in a rifle with Microgroove rifling, you may wish to use a very hard alloy* and keep the velocity to no more than 1,400fps. Leaving the CB's unsized and just tumble lubing them may not be a bad idea either, since it worked fairly well in my .30-06 (will report on this at a later date).


*The bullet was designed for plinking at low to moderate velocity so oven heat-treatment seems not to be in keeping with its reason-for-being. Water-dropping is probably the better way if you're going to skip sizing them.

ELFEGO BACA
08-28-2007, 09:51 AM
Is the Lee 30-150-TL-PB for sale?

TAWILDCATT
08-28-2007, 10:37 AM
I have been using lyman 311291 in 30 cal with 13 gr red dot.may be something like red dot green dot would be better than wc820.
------:coffee: -----:Fire: ----:coffee: -----[smilie=1:

garandsrus
08-30-2007, 09:08 AM
Maven,

I did some load testing with this boolit last night... I tried 8.5 through 10.0 gr Unique. The 9.0gr load was the best with a 5 shot group a little over an inch at 50 yds using a Marlin 336 30-30 with a scope. The five shots produced two "groups" with three shots touching in < .5 in and two more touching 3/4" away from the first three.

This group was better than my normal 311041 and 311291 loads!

The boolits were ACWW with Lars BAC lube sized .310.

John

Maven
08-30-2007, 01:22 PM
John, I'll try the 9grs. of Unique as you suggested. Btw, the other day's "patterns" were 4" - 5" to the left of my point of aim, but elevation was OK. Thanks for the tip!

Newtire
09-01-2007, 09:27 AM
John, I'll try the 9grs. of Unique as you suggested. Btw, the other day's "patterns" were 4" - 5" to the left of my point of aim, but elevation was OK. Thanks for the tip!

Maven,

This was with the regular production 150 gr. Lee but proved consistent with other 150 gr. boolits in .30-30 I have tried. Anything much over 9 gr. Unique scattered the shots. In fact, 7.5 gr. was the most accurate in my rifles. I used 21 gr. RX-7 with great results-1/2" @ 50 yds also.

Bret4207
09-15-2007, 08:06 AM
When I get a "roudtuit" I hope to develop a 1000-1200 fps load with my copy of the mould in 303 Savage, 30WCF, etc. Should be great for the kids.

Maven
09-17-2007, 05:32 PM
All, I must be a glutton for punishment as I tried the 30-150-TL-PB for the 3rd time using 9.3gr. - 9.4gr. of Unique with mixed results. Today's CB's were unsized and tumbled with Liq. Alox v. those sized & lubed normally, but to .311". Results were VG - Excellent for 5 or 6 shots with both sized & unsized CB's until the bore began to lead. I.e., I put two 5-shot groups into 1" @ 50yds. using a Lyman aperture sight, but once the bore leaded, both the sized and unsized CB's went wild. I'm not going to give up on this one in the Marlin yet, but there are a few more things I'd like to try:

(1) Seating the CB's so that no lube grooves are exposed.

(2) Lubing & sizing with a .314" H & I die, which really means not sizing them at all.

(3) Water drop those bullets that won't be sized.

(4) Return to .310" sizing diameter, but with 8gr. and 9gr. of Unique since the gun is a bit happier with that diameter with gas checked CB's, which have NEVER leaded the bbl.

Btw, the 9.3gr. charge [of Unique] was exceptionally clean burning.

PatMarlin
09-18-2007, 01:01 AM
Sounds like me and my M1917 Sunday.. :roll:

Maven
10-02-2007, 06:50 PM
All, I tried yet again to tame the 30-150-TL-PB bullet's performance in my Marlin #336. Today's exercise in futility used one batch of bullets sized to .310" and the other as cast, but lubed in a .314" die. Powder charges were 8.8gr. of Unique and 10.2gr. of Blue Dot. Both loads performed, if that's the right word, about the same: a few grouping together, but 6" - 8" dispersion on the target. The .310" CB's"grouped" about as well as the unsized ones even though I used 8.8gr. Unique with them v. 10.2gr. B. Dot for the others. On the bright side, leading was present ahead of the chamber, but what little there was was easily removed. However, while pushing a patch through the bbl. to remove the leading, I noticed that the magazine tube and barrel band were loose enough to move back and forth with slight pressure. Once I tightened the band screw, I proceeded to fire my last 10 rounds (unsized, 10.2gr. B. Dot) and got one flyer and three widely dispersed hits (~5"), but six grouped into a nice, neat 1.5" x 2" rectangle: at least three were touching. As I still have 20 unsized CB's of the original batch (not water dropped or sorted by cavity or weight), I think I'll retest this unsized v. .310" business with B. Dot. Btw, since target dispersion seems greater with a freshly patched bbl., I'm wondering whether this particular CB design needs several [non-leading] fouling shots to "condition" the bore, especially since it's Microgroove.

PatMarlin
10-02-2007, 06:59 PM
I was just thinking that was begining to sound like a barrel band loose as I was reading down through your post.

Maybe getting closer now Maven... :drinks:

felix
10-02-2007, 07:04 PM
Maven, it is possible you have a lube problem as well. Try different densities, one softer, one harder, etc., filling all the grooves until you have that boolit/lube combo down Pat(Marlin). ... felix

PatMarlin
10-02-2007, 08:10 PM
Tricky Felix.. :mrgreen:

I need one more Lyman 45. Then I'll have one for each of my favorite (3) lubes loaded and ready to go.

Maven
10-03-2007, 11:56 AM
Felix, Those CB's were initially coated with LLA, but it wasn't very lubricious. I've now taken to filling all the grooves with none other than Felix Lube (from the Mother of All Melts) in a .314" sizing die since that die doesn't touch the ~.3135" CB at all.

Pat, You KNOW I'm going to keep an eye on that front bbl. band from now on!

Bob B
10-05-2007, 07:43 AM
The armys old guard cartridge for the 30-06 was loaded with a 140 grain swaged bullet over 6 grains of bulleye or 10grains of4759-#80 powder.Do not try to push a plain base bullet to fast. Bob B

PatMarlin
10-05-2007, 09:48 AM
Which old guard vintage army did you serve in Bob?

Welcome to cast boolit heaven.. :drinks:

PatMarlin
10-05-2007, 10:02 AM
I just cast up some of these 150's Maven's working with the other night til one of the alignment sockets and pin slipped out.. :roll:

Happened on 2 GB molds that night.. :roll:

Can't weight to try this PB boolit though in some of my 30's.

mingol
10-18-2007, 09:33 PM
Maven,
I think the microgroove bore pretty much demands a water-dropped bullet. The harder the bullet, the happier the microgrooves get.
You're on the right track with Blue Dot, as it's the most nearly optimum powder. 2400 is a bit slower, and Unique is a bit faster, and either of those might please your rifle more.
LLA lube and a gas check is all I do, I shoot em as-cast, crimping the gas check on with a Lyman 450 but only pushing the bullet into the size die barely far enough to crimp the gas check. The bullet itself just barely touches the die on the bottom driving band only.
I found that moving the lock nut on the ram stop from the bottom of the frame to the top of the frame gave me enough more height on the ram stop to position it so that the bottom of the bullet only entered the die maybe a bit more than a quarter inch. That kept it from being sized (or touched) at all.
If you are not using a gas check, then you will get better performance with 7 grains Unique.
Best regards
John

Maven
10-19-2007, 12:42 PM
John, The odd thing about MG rifling and CB's is that plain based CB's lead more readily and at significantly lower velocity than gas checked CB's. In spite of a rough patch of rifling ahead of the chamber (courtesy of Marlin and at no extra charge!), the rifle has never leaded with the latter. As for the Lee CB's, I've got a water-dropped batch "curing" on my reloading bench as I write this. I'm hoping they're hard enough to prevent bore leading.

HiVelocity
10-19-2007, 05:33 PM
I know that this question is coming from waaaay out of left field but, "has anyone ever tried to paper patch a 30-30 load?" Would there be any benefit to paper patch to minimize leading?

Just curious.

HiVelocity in SC

My toys are:
DPMS AR-10
Colt AR-15M4
Tikka 300WSM
Marlin 45-70 & 30-30
Marlin .357 lever-lovin it!
PolyTech AK-47
Ruger Mini-30
Too many pistols to count.
4 Glocks that Rock...........:Fire:

rhead
10-19-2007, 06:26 PM
I have two 336 marlins and one NEF in 30 30. All are Micro Groove barrels. The oldest from the late 70's shoots well with oven treated wheelweight s and gas checks, and misses the backstop with paper patched Lee 150 grainer that has had the gas check shank removed the NEF shoots them almost as good as itwill oven treated with gas checks. the 336 made in 1982 will shoot almost a cloverleaf from 75 yards with both loads.

It is worth a try. The paper patched loads are pure lead and all loads are 36 grains of H 4350.
Ihave not done a chamber cast to examine throat or the lead to the rifling.
The plain based bullets shoot great in all 3 rifles with 1400 to 1500 fps loads of unique or 2400.