What heat source for smelting?

[creature]

I'm thinking I'm going to buy a dutch oven to smelt lead and am wondering what sort of heat source I should use. I've looked at "banjo burners" but some of those can be expensive. Anyone have any ideas?

Am I even going the right way by using a dutch oven for smelting? If you guys could give me some ideas as to how to get a good smelting setup I would greatly appreciate it.

[Sensai]

Look at the fish fryers at Bass Pro and that type of stores. The thing that you want to look at is the BTU rating and the strength of the stand. I had one that I just didn't trust the stand, a dutch oven full of wheel weights is a lot of weight. I sure wouldn't want that much molten lead to go spilling all over the place! The BTU rating normally just translates into how long it takes to melt the lead. The same burner and stand will sell for less money as a fish fryer than a turkey fryer, go figure!

[randyrat]

Turkey burner or turkey fryer and put a 10 PSI high output regulator on it. I think they come with a 2-3 psi regulator on them from the store. Cut some sheet metal around it to keep the heat on the pot and the wind away from the flame. It will last for years and tons of alloys.

[dbosman]

I currently use a Coleman stove so I can safely say that won't work for you. ;-)

[dgill99]

I use a Coleman stove and an iron skillet

[creature]

Thanks for the input gents. Do you guys think a hot plate and a dutch oven would work? I'd prefer to use electricity but it's not a must.

[Dan Cash]

Thanks for the input gents. Do you guys think a hot plate and a dutch oven would work? I'd prefer to use electricity but it's not a must.
No. If the hot plate got hot enough to melt any lead in the pot, your electricity bill would put you out of the casting business. You can get a banjo burner for about $50. and a new gas bottle for about a hundred for a 20 pound unit. It is fast and ecconomical.

[creature]

No. If the hot plate got hot enough to melt any lead in the pot, your electricity bill would put you out of the casting business. You can get a banjo burner for about $50. and a new gas bottle for about a hundred for a 20 pound unit. It is fast and ecconomical.

Are you talking about propane grill type gas bottle? If so I'm already good to go with that.

[RP]

Wood or coal it alone will melt lead but add a fan to the mix and smelt time is done in record speeds and I really am talking about record times.
http://http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg31/Ricky1965/005-3.jpg
You don't have to put it down in the fire its just the way I do it. For time ideals a five gallon bucket of range bullets thirty mins. Five gallon bucket of WWs no more then ten mins. A way to move hot pots in and out of the fire helps a lot for me for the amounts I am doing at a time or run.

[wv109323]

Yes ,he is talking about a common 20 lb. propane tank used for gas grills. You can hook them up to a fish fryer BUT the metal structure of the fish fryer needs to be strong enough to hold up a molten dutch oven of lead. Also remember that the heat may turn the metal structure red hot and it will loose it's strength. Try a reduced amount on the first run.

[creature]

What banjo burner are you guys using? Anyone have a recommended model/brand? Thanks a bunch for the help!

[fishin_bum]

I use a hot plate and a medium size dutch oven in the garage for melting wheel weights and pipe that I cast into ingots, it works good you just have to make sure it has a high enough BTU setting. If I am doing a lot, more than a five gallon bucket I use my turkey fryer with a large dutch oven out.

[markshere2]

I used to use a cast iron pot. It cracked. I switched to a stainless steel stock pot.
Works fine
$6 at wally world.

[Sasquatch-1]

When I first started thinking of getting a turkey frier I was told to get one with the RED regulator. It is supposed to be the high pressure. The one I purchased is suppose to reach 100,000 btu's at full open. I have never tried this. I think I payed less then $65.00 and it came with a fish fry pan and basket. Unfortunately the pan was aluminum and could not be used for smelting.

As for smelting pots, see if you can find a AC repairman and ask if you can have an empty refrigerant tank. The rounded bottom makes it easier to get at the last of the lead with a laddle although you can't get it all without tipping the pot. Cut in half they make great smelting pots and when cutting in half you don't have to worry about falmmable gas left in the tank.

I also have a few cast iron pans for smaller amounts.

[Dan Cash]

Are you talking about propane grill type gas bottle? If so I'm already good to go with that.

Yes. The bottle used with grills is about half the size of the 20 pound bottle but will do your melt well. Just have to fill more often.

[RickinTN]

I have a turkey fryer and a dutch oven which I've yet to use. I've read where the cast iron would crack easily when hot and this made me shy away from using it. I decided to try my Coleman stove (which I already had) and a 4-quart stainless pot I bought at the local thrift store for $4. I can smelt about 25 lbs with it heaping full of raw wheel weights. Of course they "cook down" considerably when melted and I end up with about a half of a pot when melted and clips removed. The Coleman stove seems to support the weight just fine. I did buy an adaptor hose in order to use a 20lb tank. The disposable 1lb tanks go pretty quickly.
Good Luck,
Rick

[detox]

My Walmart has 4 different turkey and fish friers (5 psi regulators) to choose from. These will put out enough heat to melt 100lbs of lead guaranteed. If not just return it no questions asked.;)

I like their King Kooker version. Comes with shallow fish fry pan and strainer, thermometer $49.00 They also have cheaper version that cost $29.00.

[Iowa Fox]

Turkey burner or turkey fryer and put a 10 PSI high output regulator on it. I think they come with a 2-3 psi regulator on them from the store. Cut some sheet metal around it to keep the heat on the pot and the wind away from the flame. It will last for years and tons of alloys.

This sounds like my set up. The turkey cooker with nice heavy stand was about 30 bucks when I got it at Wal Mart years ago and the sheet metal really helps control the heat. Also this day and age you have to have a thermometer to control the melt. I try to sort as hard as I can but it seems like I still miss one or two zinc weights. I usually wait until I have 9-10 sorted five ballon buckets before I smelt. When I first started smelting I used a cast iron pot in a coal fired forge at home on the farm but the heat was hard to control. At least in those days there were no zinc weights. I got a free supply of coal along the Union Pacifc tracks from coal falling out of the coal trains traveling on the north side of the farm. The good old days but the turkey cooker with LP is the best way to go.

[mold maker]

Some of today's China made cast iron pots may not be up to par, but I've used a dutch oven for over 40 years. Common sense says not to bang on a hot lead filled pot. The only down side of cast iron, that I know of, is the added weight on the heat source.

[Lead Fred]

Used a propane camp stove for years.
The Lee 20lb pot is just so much more economical to use.

[creature]

My Walmart has 4 different turkey and fish friers (5 psi regulators) to choose from. These will put out enough heat to melt 100lbs of lead guaranteed. If not just return it no questions asked.;)

I like their King Kooker version. Comes with shallow fish fry pan and strainer, thermometer $49.00 They also have cheaper version that cost $29.00.

Sounds nice! I wonder if that thermometer would work for measuring lead temperature? Also do I need to keep the lead under 850 when I smelt or does it matter? I'm real new to this guys, i appreciate the help.

Oh also, I snagged some cup cake pans today at a thrift store. I've seen people use them for ingot molds. A couple of them seem a little lighter. Will lighter metal work or do I need to worry about it burning through them?

[detox]

NO that thermometer will not work for testing lead temperature.

I would keep the lead temp under 800 for pure lead. Under 750 for Wheel Weights.

[Sasquatch-1]

Sounds nice! I wonder if that thermometer would work for measuring lead temperature? Also do I need to keep the lead under 850 when I smelt or does it matter? I'm real new to this guys, i appreciate the help.

Oh also, I snagged some cup cake pans today at a thrift store. I've seen people use them for ingot molds. A couple of them seem a little lighter. Will lighter metal work or do I need to worry about it burning through them?

The thermometers that come with these are made for cooking and usually do not reach temperatures over 700 degrees. You may be dealing with temps in the 800 to 900 degree range.

Make sure none of the pans are aluminum. As stated many times on this board aluminum melts at a temp close to lead and will weaken a pouring temps. Avoid a possible disaster.

[country gent]

I bought a weed burner at Harbor frieght put 2 valves on it one on off one to regulate temperature. On the other end I welded a peice of key stock to an elbow and now it stands up right under my turkey frier stand. about 40-45 mins and my duth oven is full of moltern lead and ready to go. Years ago I had a set made from a couple truck rims and a 25 Lb propane tank. Used coal and a shop vav for a blower. 300+ lbs in a couple hours.But was a mess in the driveway. tack welded 3 truck rims together cut the centers out of the top 2. Cut the top of an old 25 lb propane tank ( one they would fill do to its age) and started a coal fire in the bottom rim set pot in and turned on the blower. Coal is probably the most economical for melting lead. Propane is cleaner, no ash clinkers or real mess. But with the propane tank set up I cleaned up 4000 lbs of range lead in 3 week ends or so. I use my set up now to smelt alloy and cast from.Dutch oven full will go about 150 lbs so be carefull.

[km101]

I use a turkey fryer. I added pipe legs to it to bring the top surface up to 30" in height so I don't have to squat or stoop all the time that I am smelting. I have found that the regulator that came with it works well for smelting. I have a high-pressure regulator, but found that it is not necessary. I found that a dutch oven is a little too heavy to use easily and does not have a pour spout. I found a cheap stainless steel pot that has a sturdy handle, and I use locking pliers for additional handling. I was able to make a pour spout to simplify pouring into molds. DO NOT use aluminum muffin tins or anything that has a non-stick coating on it!! Don't ask me how I know.

[acguy45]

I use a 1,000 watt open coil hotplate ($10.00 or less) and a large coffee can or #6 industrial vegetable etc can it fits the coils perfectly I cover the top with the lid and it melts 15-20 lbs in about 20 minutes or less. I use a burn barrel for larger batches of range scrap. I use cans for ignot molds, not a pro by any means but it works for me.

[John Boy]

and am wondering what sort of heat source I should use
http://www.harborfreight.com/propane-torch-91033.html

Heats-up to over 3000° F

[Sasquatch-1]

I use a 1,000 watt open coil hotplate ($10.00 or less) and a large coffee can or #6 industrial vegetable etc can it fits the coils perfectly I cover the top with the lid and it melts 15-20 lbs in about 20 minutes or less. I use a burn barrel for larger batches of range scrap. I use cans for ignot molds, not a pro by any means but it works for me.

I use to use an old tin can when they were made of heavier metal, some 35+ years ago. A friendly WARNING, the soldier joint on the side will fail. Maybe not catastrophically, but it will fail.

[BubbaJon]

The thermometers that come with these are made for cooking and usually do not reach temperatures over 700 degrees. You may be dealing with temps in the 800 to 900 degree range.
Make sure none of the pans are aluminum. As stated many times on this board aluminum melts at a temp close to lead and will weaken a pouring temps. Avoid a possible disaster.
For just melting the only reason you'd care about temp would be if you suspect some zinc weights floating around in there - then you don't want to get too hot. I fire up the gas until i see it start to melt then back off. You can get BBQ thermometers for about $15 but they aren't all that accurate.
As far as aluminum muffin tins - near as i can tell that's not true in normal use - I used mine for many many cycles and not a sign of anything happening. Pure lead melts around 620F. Aluminum melts somewhere around 900 degrees - no need to get the temp that dang high - all you're doing is possibly cooking out the good stuff, possibly cooking IN the bad stuff and/or oxidizing the lead.

[badbob454]

http://www.harborfreight.com/propane-torch-91033.html

Heats-up to over 3000° F

i wonder if this will melt berdan brass so i can pour into ingots?

[country gent]

There was an old pattern maker at our shooting club in his spare time he melted down aluminum cans ( almost everybody saved them for him) and made copies of the old freeland scope stand and other items. He made his patterns and had several pots of green sand. He claimed the heat wasnt an issue but the fluxes needed to get good castings were. We played around a little with "investment casting brass at work in the tool room but never got consistent results.
I used an old propane cylinder witht he top cut of and stoker coal with a shop vac for a blower. worked great as long as it was full of lead when started to get empty you had to turn the blower of or it would have melted thru. Now if you know what stoker coal is your showing your age some.

[41 mag fan]

Now if you know what stoker coal is your showing your age some.

Transferred from an underground Peabody mine, 3 1/2 yrs ago that, that was their main product......stoker coal.

[Bzcraig]

Turkey fryer and Dutch oven and if I'm worried about zinc in my WW cause I didn't check them well, thermometer. Then ladle into ingot molds. It's a little slow that way but I don't worry too much about volume and try to enjoy the process.

[Dale53]

Here's my Bass Pro Turkey/Fish fryer and a Harbor Freight Dutch oven;

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/QWinter2009andleadsmelting-1767.jpg (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/QWinter2009andleadsmelting-1767.jpg.html)

The Dutch oven has a capacity of well over 100 lbs. I have done 650 lbs in an afternoon with a bit of help.

Watch for sales...

Dale53

[country gent]

I use basically the same set up only I replaced the turkey burner with a weed burner from harbor frieght and an 1/8 thk sheet ring around the dutch oven to hold heat in.

[Spokerider]

A dutch oven like the one pictured above, tiger torch or weed burner torch....same thing, a few fireproof bricks and a couple pieces of 3" square tubing to rest the pot on. All stuff I had on hand.

[TheGrimReaper]

Propane fish fryer and a Flea Market Dutch oven. Best part-Fish fryer was FREE and the huge Dutch Oven cost me $10.00!!!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Your generic Turkey Fryer burner and a 20 lb cast iron plumbers pot will melt down in 20 minutes from stone cold. Refills are about 10 min and if you don't empty the pot all the way each time you can move lead every 3-5 minutes

These are readily available from all of the big box stores for $30-70. The only critical thing to look for is how strong the stand is. Mine was on sale for $29.95 at Lowes.

A smaller dutch oven would work well as a pot if you can't find a plumbers pot. The bigger the pot the longer it takes to melt it down.

As far as cast iron not being up to the task, it has been for hundreds of years, so why not just follow along with the trend.

Associated tools for processing lead can be had at any restaurant supply. Heavy aluminum buscuit pans and large SS spoons, strainers, and gravy ladels are all you need to be smelting wheel weights.

I have done 9ea 5 gallon buckets of WW in 5 hours with this setup. Prior to the turkey burner my record was 1 5gallon bucket in 8 hours using Coleman stoves!

You can see the ingots laying on the floor behind the single one I'm holding. There was 411 ingots total and they average 1.95 lbs each, that's right at 800lbs in 5 hours. Haven't had to do it for a while.

Randy

[Dannmann801]

For what it's worth I just started melting lead and after reading/listening/talking this is the setup I came up with -
68631

Seemed to work just fine - used a skillet because that's what I had layin' around the garage, got the muffin tins at discount store and really like the thicker metal tin better, but both worked. Whatever stuff was on the inside of the muffin tins caused voids on the first batch of ingots, but then they smoothed out. Burner was $34 on sale at Menard's and I got propane already...

I'm thinking that I'm going to look for a deeper cast iron pot....skillet works fine but it would be better if it weren't so shallow

68632

[1hole]

I cast for years from a Lyman cast iron pot on a Coleman gas camp stove, worked fine but less than ideal. Some years ago I happened upon an old plumbers gas blow torch at a yard sale. It works great and the fuel is still cheap even at today's prices. A piece of sheet metal around the pot keeps the flame's heat in, mostly, and protects my hands from the radiant heat.

IMHO, it is NOT a good idea to melt more than maybe 20-30# at once no matter what pot you have. Molten lead is quite hot, it's an awkward to handle liquid and it can be a disaster if it's spilled.

[detox]

IMHO, it is NOT a good idea to melt more than maybe 20-30# at once no matter what pot you have. Molten lead is quite hot, it's an awkward to handle liquid and it can be a disaster if it's spilled.

I prepare a clean concrete surface area by removing all flamable material around burner. If lead does spill... nothing will catch on fire....except maybe my leather boots. BTW i have spilled about 10 lbs of lead by accident...result was lots of splatter that was difficult to pick up and put back into pot.

[lightman]

I'm a little surprised that there are not more homemade cookers here. I'll try to post up a pic of my set-up, this weekend. My burner is made from a 1/2 inch pipe nipple with a tiny hole drilled in it, and a 1-1/4 inch pipe for the top. It puts out some serious btu's. My pot is a valve cover from a high pressure railroad tank car. Picture a very heavy wall 20# propane tank. It will hold and melt three five buckets of wheelweights. Lightman

[Iowa Fox]

When I first started I used coal. The coal trains going east on the north side of the farm had the right of way loaded with coal falling off the cars from the bumpy grade. I picked it up in 5 gal buckets and used it in the forge at the farm to heat a large cast iron pot. Today I use LP lots easier labor wise and much easier to control smelting temp. The coal trains are still running but the coal in the cars is crushed much finner and the grade is smooth enough nothing falls from the cars anymore. Anyone here remember the trains with cattle in the cattle cars?

[lightman]

I'm not in Iowa, but I do remember seeing cattle cars here. Its been awhile! I remember coal cars, too! They still haul thru here to the power plant. Lightman

[Buzzard II]

I still use an old plumbers pot on top of a propane tank. I block around the tank with cinder (concrete) blocks. I pay close attention to what I'm doing!

[SciFiJim]

This is what I use.

http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt47/SciFiJim_photobucket/Castingsetup.jpg (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/SciFiJim_photobucket/media/Castingsetup.jpg.html)

The side burner on an old BBQ and a stainless steel pot that I got at Goodwill for $1. It will comfortable hold 15-20 lbs, but a pot full to overflowing with WWs will melt down to about 10lbs. I use locking pliers as a handle to pour with and pour out the entire pot with each batch.

[kevindtimm]

Stupid/simple question; I was at Goodwill today and there weren't any dutch ovens. However, there were a number of 6-8qt stainless steel pots, no different than the stuff I have in the kitchen. Are those the SS pots that people are using?

[Springfield]

If they are decent thicker ones, yes they are.

[kevindtimm]

define 'thicker' :)

[SciFiJim]

define 'thicker' :)

If you find one with a copper plated bottom, you will understand "thicker".

They are just more substantial than the ones that are made of really thin material.

[Sasquatch-1]

I actually use a thin wall SS stock pot some times. I think the problem is they do not transfer heat very efficiently. I got an old refrigerant tank from an AC mechanic and cut it in half. It will easily hold more alloy then I care to put on my burner and was free. However, for the amounts I usually do, a 8 to 12 inch cast iron frying pan works very well.

[kevindtimm]

If you find one with a copper plated bottom, you will understand "thicker".

They are just more substantial than the ones that are made of really thin material.

Perfect, that's what I was thinking - thanks for the confirmation.

[markshere2]

don't over think this y'all.
The cheapest stainless steel stockpot at wally world cost me 7 bucks and it works as well as the cast iron dutch oven that cracked on me.

[Sasquatch-1]

don't over think this y'all.
The cheapest stainless steel stockpot at wally world cost me 7 bucks and it works as well as the cast iron dutch oven that cracked on me.

Actually, if the Dutch oven cracked, it sounds like the Wally World pot worked better.

[Lance Boyle]

I have an old revere ware ss dutch oven of about 7-8 inch diamter. The brass handles that were brazed to it busted off in regular kitchen use just from regular heat up cycles. I do need to drill holes in the pot and add a bail handle to it for convenience.

I also have an old style propane tank that i cut in half at the seam. I'm saving the top half for the some day project of a bottom pour pot perhaps. The bottom will get used when I can get enough lead again.

I was using a coleman stove with rcbs 10 lb pot, then the junk SS pot. The coleman stove is just too slow and uses too much fuel. My last smelt I used a home made "shotgun" fish fry burner that work has. Nothing more than a frame, a foot of 1-1.5" square tube for a burner. Eats a lot more fuel I guess than a banjo.