Why 22lr are bought up for ?

[trapper9260]

I do not know if this was ask before. I like to know what all think why there is a lack of 22lr and also what is the reason for it.I know there is some buy to resell and some just to store up.But dose anyone know what is the main reason for it . I understand about the 223 ammo and others centerfire. But for the rimfire is what I asking what every one think why it is being bought up so fast and for how long it been like that.
Thank you

[imashooter2]

Because lean manufacturing and just in time distribution techniques have left the supply unable to accommodate spikes in demand. If a million shooters buy an extra brick in January, just for insurance, they have just used up over a months worth of normal supply for the entire country.

[Case Stuffer]

Was the least expensive for most to shoot.

Low recoil so good to learn with without developing flinching due to recoil and report.

In general .22 firearms are less expensive than center fire ones.

Brass is not reloadable so no concerns about finding brass thrown everywhere by semi autos.

Non reloadable means that it is only produced by the major ammo plants.

Reloading companies ,even large ones are not very likely to start producing .22 rimfire ammo. Now if someone developed a .22 LR case which used a SP primer perhaps.

Center-fires is loaded by individuals and numerious reloading companies.

[Sensai]

Because God is great, beer is good and people are crazy. Centerfire prices go up and availability goes down, so people buy rimfire to be able to continue shooting. Rimfire prices go up and availability goes down, so people panic and buy everything they can find, even if they don't need it. When supply once again meets demand there will be a lot of people sitting on a gold mine of ammo only to find out it's fool's gold.

[Papa smurf]

OK. We now know about 22lr's . Lets try to explain the primer and percussion cap shortages !!!-----------------Papa Smurf ---again

[imashooter2]

OK. We now know about 22lr's . Lets try to explain the primer and percussion cap shortages !!!-----------------Papa Smurf ---again

Lean manufacturing and just in time distribution techniques have left the supply unable to accommodate spikes in demand.

[1Shirt]

Newbee reloaders! I worry about them!
1Shirt!

[trapper9260]

Newbee reloaders! I worry about them!
1Shirt!

You are right on that there is alot that is getting into it and alot are not gettting the manuals to do the reloading also. That is the sad part of it all.

[Got-R-Did]

In regards to primer supplies, the companies are diverting them to their own ammo production lines. Greater profit margin in selling completed cartridges than components.
Got-R-Did.

[HATCH]

I can't reload 22lr. So if walmart has them for $13 for winchester 333 i buy them. Had 17 boxes down to just 10 now.
Ammo stores for a very long time so buy it while its cheap or when you can afford it.

[rbuck351]

I think a lot of people are getting tired of getting caught with their pants down combined with who knows what anti gun/ammo law will pop up next. This is causing a lot of new "hoarders'. Me, I'm an old hoarder that got caught about 40 years ago and it ain't happening again. Can you imagine what even a proposed per round ammo tax would do. A tax of $.05 per round wouldn't affect a box of 30/06 too much, but how about a brick of 22LR. And there is the idea that 22LR is the survivalist ammo of choice and it's not easily reloadable and probably a few other reasons as well.

[Got-R-Did]

RBuck is correct. My Mentor advised me long ago that ammunition would become it's own currency and he said to buy it cheap and stack it deep. I am ever grateful for that insight, and I listened. I, too, was caught unawares with the primer shortage in the late 90s and bought as many as I could afford for the next few years. I am waiting out this last shortage quite comfortably, and handloading just like there was no crisis.
As for .22 LR being the choice of survivalists, I can certainly see the utility. It can take most small game humanely for eating and can be quite effective in self defense. Easy enough to carry 500+ rounds in a ruck sack; something I don't want to imagine with a centerfire rifle cartridge such as 5.56X45,.308 or .30-06.
Got-R-Did.

[BAGTIC]

In a genuine survival situation I suspect 'humaneness' would be far down the list below effectiveness.

[ubetcha]

My brother sent me a link about the making of a 22lr by CCI.In the video, it was stated that they make 4 million 22lr a day.If CCI makes 4 mil a day,what are Remington,Winchester,Federal,Ely,and the others putting out a day?

[imashooter2]

Estimates are that the USA (in times of normal demand) uses 3.5 billion rounds of .22LR a year. That's about 292 million a month. So if a million shooters got concerned and bought an extra brick when the Democrats started talking about gun control and ammo taxes, they used up a month and a half of the available national supply. And that is on top of the normal demand for 292 million rounds...

[uscra112]

Looking at the low feedback numbers of .22 RF sellers on Gunbroker, I'm inclined to think that some portion of the shortage is amateur arbitragers, (scalpers) buying from retailer to sell online. I'm still seeing bricks of Thunderbolt for Heaven's sake going for $100, and that's before shipping! Nothing fundamentally wrong with scalping, mind you. It's what economists call a "market clearing mechanism" which drives demand and supply into equilibrium. What should be happening is that the retailers should be charging a lot more, but they're afraid to take heat for "gouging". Such is the fundamental ignorance of economics on this land of low information voters.

[45-70 Chevroner]

I'm kind of like rbuck351, I'm an old horder. Considering the prices I paid for my primers and powder 20 or more years ago, which was dirt cheap compared to now. I can load 38 specials for about what 22 shells were selling for then, and for quite a bit less than 22 shells are selling for today. Yes I have a few 22 shells stored up and I don't want to say how many. Have you ever noticed what the news media says when a guy is charge with a crime, " this guy had 5 or 6 hundred rounds of ammo stored in his garage, he could be a real threat to society, it's a good thing he was cought when he was" or "this guy had an arsonal he must of had at least 6 guns in his house and one of them was black". These are not the exact words the media uses but you get the drift.

[historicfirearms]

Yeah, I always laugh when I hear one of those news reports. Only my closest friends and family get to see my little stockpile. They used to make fun of me before this latest shortage, guess who is smiling now?

[Cane_man]

Because God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

should be a sticky somewhere for words to live by :lol:

[LC Press]

I had a huge supply of 22lr (for me as I don't shoot it much). For giggles I put 1650 rounds of Federal I paid $12 @ my LGS in 2010 at thier truckload sale on Gunbroker. It went for $110 a box plus they paid shipping. $330 for something I paid $36 for. Tempted to sell 6500 more to pay for reloading equipment (lee collet die for 308, case prep center, stainless media, wet tumbler and a single stage set up for 308) since I am one of the dreaded "newbs"....I have manuals and read them :)

I felt a tinge of guilt...for a second. Free market and I wasn't scalping. Just selling off what I had available.

[GT27]

I'm shooting a Benji air rifle,and a Crosman 1377 pistol until the frenzy is gone and we get back to normal!I guess the positive about this is its slowly getting us out of this recession pit that libtards put us in...GT27

[rbuck351]

A few days ago I told my wife I might sell a few bricks of 22 and then resupply when the crazyness is over. She said NO in no uncertain terms. One minute I have way too much gun stuff and the next it's "no you are not selling anything". But, it's hard to argue with her on this one as who knows what the future will bring.

[Swamp Man]

A few days ago I told my wife I might sell a few bricks of 22 and then resupply when the crazyness is over. She said NO in no uncertain terms. One minute I have way too much gun stuff and the next it's "no you are not selling anything". But, it's hard to argue with her on this one as who knows what the future will bring. Listen to your wife this time she is dead on. Never sell your stock of ammo the way things are going in this country you may need it to put food on the table and protect your family before long.

[Jim]

Listen to your wife this time she is dead on. Never sell your stock of ammo the way things are going in this country you may need it to put food on the table and protect your family before long.

I'm gonna have to side with Swamp Man on this one. If I had 10,000 rds or so, I'd be willing to sell a brick to friend that had none and couldn't find any. Other than a situation like that and conditions being what they are, I wouldn't sell so much as a 50 rd. box right now.

I'm fortunate in that the little Mom & Pop shop I deal with is still finding 22 ammo, albeit a little at a time. They know I'm looking for more and they always call me when they get some in. I don't buy all they get in, just a box or two at a time. Little by little, though, I'm stocking up.

[Lead Fred]

Within months all the game will be gone when the food trucks stop coming.

I told my bud today I was thinking of selling off my 22 m60 Marlin, and the 2k rounds I have for it.

He started yelling at me over the phone, until I told him, he could have first bid.

[Swamp Man]

Within months all the game will be gone when the food trucks stop coming.

I told my bud today I was thinking of selling off my 22 m60 Marlin, and the 2k rounds I have for it.

He started yelling at me over the phone, until I told him, he could have first bid.
I live on a farm so shortage of game is something I never worry about. If I lived in a city I may worry about finding a place to find game thank God I'm a country boy.

[imashooter2]

Unfortunately, to fill their bellies, folks from the cities will strip your farm bare. After the food trucks stop, this country will turn into a Mad Max movie without the stupid costumes.

[jrayborn]

Oh don't be so sure imashooter2, I have my costume ready and hanging in the closet right next to my 10/22...

[I'll Make Mine]

Unfortunately, to fill their bellies, folks from the cities will strip your farm bare. After the food trucks stop, this country will turn into a Mad Max movie without the stupid costumes.

Don't be silly. The gasoline will run out within a couple weeks after the cities start starving.

[imashooter2]

Don't be silly. The gasoline will run out within a couple weeks after the cities start starving.

Millions will starve and die in the cities and suburban areas. The toughest and most vicious will pillage their way to every farm and prepper's compound in the country. You can walk across Texas in less than a month.

[Swamp Man]

The fact is the city people will feed off of one another until the whole city is totally consumed. It is already that way in big cities it will just be on a much larger scale once the government can't pay the welfare bills.

[Sensai]

The fact is the city people will feed off of one another until the whole city is totally consumed.

Swamp Man, I'm afraid that what you said may become literal fact before it's over. A few days after the internet and/or the electric grid goes down I won't be trusting anybody that I don't know to come near my family. Most people think of the internet and electric grids as givens, that they are completely reliable and will always be there. How do they think the grocer orders resupplies, gas pumps run. the entire economy runs??? They don't seem to have learned a thing from the short outages from storms, quakes, etc. What was that old saying about all your eggs in one basket?

[I'll Make Mine]

You can walk across Texas in less than a month.

Sure you can, if you have 2500-3000 calories a day to eat. Can you do it on 500-700 calories a day? I'm betting not...

[imashooter2]

Sure you can, if you have 2500-3000 calories a day to eat. Can you do it on 500-700 calories a day? I'm betting not...

I gave it a whole lot of buffer and finding those next calories will be a hell of a motivation.

[I'll Make Mine]

Might well be -- but by that time, it looks more like Walking Dead than Road Warrior...

[Texantothecore]

Within months all the game will be gone when the food trucks stop coming.

I told my bud today I was thinking of selling off my 22 m60 Marlin, and the 2k rounds I have for it.

He started yelling at me over the phone, until I told him, he could have first bid.

The large game will be gone in about three weeks. Most of your protein from that point will come from birds, which places a premium on pump or break barrel air rifles and large amounts of pellets.

[jlchucker]

Because lean manufacturing and just in time distribution techniques have left the supply unable to accommodate spikes in demand. If a million shooters buy an extra brick in January, just for insurance, they have just used up over a months worth of normal supply for the entire country.

Maybe--but at the heart and soul of just-in-time and lean manufacturing is forecasting demand. Such manufacturing techniques are totally dependent upon regularly updated forecasts. If sales and marketing don't provide this information to materials management, then at some point the manufacturing end of things will be guessing on their own---and that's never good. Lean manufacturing and just-in-time, if done with everybody's involvement, all of the time, is extremely responsive. The thing is, there isn't such a thing as an accurate forecast. If the ammo companies didn't react to projected increases in demand, for whatever reason, they would be in real trouble. Projected demand has to be updated very frequently--starting with management. If not, some production control guy down the food chain will have no information to work with, and will guess and launch shop orders on his or her own. For finished ammo as well as components--like powder, primers, brass, and even raw materials.

[Yellowhouse]

The large game will be gone in about three weeks. Most of your protein from that point will come from birds, which places a premium on pump or break barrel air rifles and large amounts of pellets.

Norway Rats will become the food of choice. Abundant, prolific, quite large, and fairly easy to bag. People who are adept at catching and raising them will be in high demand.

[destrux]

Airguns are the new .22 rimfire for right now. I'm buying a PCP pellet upper for my AR-15 instead of a rimfire upper. It costs a couple hundred more... but at least I can shoot it to my heart's content.

[imashooter2]

Maybe--but at the heart and soul of just-in-time and lean manufacturing is forecasting demand. Such manufacturing techniques are totally dependent upon regularly updated forecasts. If sales and marketing don't provide this information to materials management, then at some point the manufacturing end of things will be guessing on their own---and that's never good. Lean manufacturing and just-in-time, if done with everybody's involvement, all of the time, is extremely responsive. The thing is, there isn't such a thing as an accurate forecast. If the ammo companies didn't react to projected increases in demand, for whatever reason, they would be in real trouble. Projected demand has to be updated very frequently--starting with management. If not, some production control guy down the food chain will have no information to work with, and will guess and launch shop orders on his or her own. For finished ammo as well as components--like powder, primers, brass, and even raw materials.

So you are agreeing that the supply is unable to accommodate spikes in demand.

[rbuck351]

I like to keep my fingers in every pie that comes along. I picked up a 180lb crossbow. I already have a Beeman R2 a couple of compound bows and a recurve. I also have been a Jack of all trades most of my life including mechanic, welder, machinist, carpenter, electrician, plumber and have been stocking many of the things I think will be important if our money becomes low grade toilet paper or there is just nothing to buy. The next step is my retirement farm far enough out of town to be difficult to get to. Hope it doesn't happen but don't want to be caught not ready. I still need a flint lock rifle though.

[jlchucker]

So you are agreeing that the supply is unable to accommodate spikes in demand.

Yes, in a way--but to take it a step further, this should have all been corrected by the producers by now. And I'm speaking as someone who understands the complexities of production control in a just-in-time environment. That sort of thing gets WAY out of control if marketing doesn't keep up with forecasting. What gets out of control, simply put, is not only the manufacturing schedules for finished product, but for the entire bill of materials that go into that product--all the way back to raw materials. Someone hasn't been keeping up every day with forecasting changes in demand, and now it's spread all the way back into shortages for components. Some of those components, i.e brass (to you and I in the form of reloadable new cartridge cases), primers, various powders, bullets, etc. are now quickly getting to be in short supply to retailers, and eventually us buyers. There's been a "spike", yes. But the industry didn't keep up with forecasting and production control. To me, it's why you go to the gunshops and still see some powders, like Unique for example, out of stock, while other, slower-moving powders, remain available. Production in a well-run manufacturing facility is entirely dependent upon the forecast for finished goods out the door--everything that goes into making that finished product as it sits on a dealer's shelf gets ordered and produced based upon that. The "spike" you refer to, Imashooter, should have been addressed by the manufacturers by now. If some external force is continuously screwing with the demand on an ongoing basis, then that's a whole other thing--it would mean that the "external force" is causing demand to change. Now--either the ammo industry has a very out-of-date manufacturing control process (by about 30 years), or somebody (and I wonder who) is making sure that this so-called "spike" gets prolonged. This has been going on for a few months too long now, and is too widespread IMO, to just be written off as a "spike".

[jlchucker]

Yes, in a way--but to take it a step further, this should have all been corrected by the producers by now. And I'm speaking as someone who understands the complexities of production control in a just-in-time environment. That sort of thing gets WAY out of control if marketing doesn't keep up with forecasting. What gets out of control, simply put, is not only the manufacturing schedules for finished product, but for the entire bill of materials that go into that product--all the way back to raw materials. Someone hasn't been keeping up every day with forecasting changes in demand, and now it's spread all the way back into shortages for components. Some of those components, i.e brass (to you and I in the form of reloadable new cartridge cases), primers, various powders, bullets, etc. are now quickly getting to be in short supply to retailers, and eventually us buyers. There's been a "spike", yes. But the industry didn't keep up with forecasting and production control. To me, it's why you go to the gunshops and still see some powders, like Unique for example, out of stock, while other, slower-moving powders, remain available. Production in a well-run manufacturing facility is entirely dependent upon the forecast for finished goods out the door--everything that goes into making that finished product as it sits on a dealer's shelf gets ordered and produced based upon that. The "spike" you refer to, Imashooter, should have been addressed by the manufacturers by now. If some external force is continuously screwing with the demand on an ongoing basis, then that's a whole other thing--it would mean that the "external force" is causing demand to change. Now--either the ammo industry has a very out-of-date manufacturing control process (by about 30 years), or somebody (and I wonder who) is making sure that this so-called "spike" gets prolonged. This has been going on for a few months too long now, and is too widespread IMO, to just be written off as a "spike".

Just to take it a step further--the way these spikes can be messed with is to mess with the availability and/or lead time of the components that go into making the finished product themselve. A big buy of finished ammo by Homeland Security or some other part of Obamanation would be a poor way of doing it. More "bang for the buck" could theoretically jam up production if demand and/or supply for a critical component of the finished product was messed with. A component (or component) such as one or more of the chemicals that go into making primer mix, or one or more grades of powder. That's the scarey part--and it's the way some unscrupulous entity can turn a "spike" into something much more widespread, longer lasting, and harder to detect. Factories depend on placing orders for components these days by starting with demand for finished product, which "explodes" into demand for all of the components, with lead times for each component factored in. Screwing with the lead times or availability of one component that gets used in lots of calibers, primers, or grades of powder would have a huge effect. Now--are there "external forces" causing all of this at play here? This inquiring mind is starting to wonder.

[imashooter2]

Yes, in a way--but to take it a step further, this should have all been corrected by the producers by now. And I'm speaking as someone who understands the complexities of production control in a just-in-time environment. That sort of thing gets WAY out of control if marketing doesn't keep up with forecasting. What gets out of control, simply put, is not only the manufacturing schedules for finished product, but for the entire bill of materials that go into that product--all the way back to raw materials. Someone hasn't been keeping up every day with forecasting changes in demand, and now it's spread all the way back into shortages for components. Some of those components, i.e brass (to you and I in the form of reloadable new cartridge cases), primers, various powders, bullets, etc. are now quickly getting to be in short supply to retailers, and eventually us buyers. There's been a "spike", yes. But the industry didn't keep up with forecasting and production control. To me, it's why you go to the gunshops and still see some powders, like Unique for example, out of stock, while other, slower-moving powders, remain available. Production in a well-run manufacturing facility is entirely dependent upon the forecast for finished goods out the door--everything that goes into making that finished product as it sits on a dealer's shelf gets ordered and produced based upon that. The "spike" you refer to, Imashooter, should have been addressed by the manufacturers by now. If some external force is continuously screwing with the demand on an ongoing basis, then that's a whole other thing--it would mean that the "external force" is causing demand to change. Now--either the ammo industry has a very out-of-date manufacturing control process (by about 30 years), or somebody (and I wonder who) is making sure that this so-called "spike" gets prolonged. This has been going on for a few months too long now, and is too widespread IMO, to just be written off as a "spike".

It could only be corrected if the producers had available capacity. Absent the ability to double production, a forecast of double demand does little.

[w0fms]

If one goes and looks at the NICS website and looks at the "record week" of 12/17-12/23/2012 at 953,613 checks alone, one can assume that in reality it's not a million current owners of 22LR that killed the supply chain. It's probably a million NEW owners of 22LR's that did it along with another million who thought an extra brick was a good idea. If you take the top five weeks, BTW, you are looking at about 3.4 million checks. All since Newtown.

Nice Job Democrats and Obama. Great job selling firearms! A lot of new people into the hobby is a good thing. We need to welcome them in with open arms.

[jlchucker]

It could only be corrected if the producers had available capacity. Absent the ability to double production, a forecast of double demand does little. Up-to-date forecasts are always needed to point out projected capacity bottlenecks at each workcenter, allowing for management to decide when, where, and how to increase capacity at those identified workcenters, or to temporarily subcontract for some of those bottlenecked operations to be performed by vendors.

[imashooter2]

Up-to-date forecasts are always needed to point out projected capacity bottlenecks at each workcenter, allowing for management to decide when, where, and how to increase capacity at those identified workcenters, or to temporarily subcontract for some of those bottlenecked operations to be performed by vendors.

LOL! We both know how Lean Manufacturing works and we both know that there is no way that the system could cope with the unprecedented demand. Further, we both know that there are no subcontractors for ammunition manufacture. What point are you trying to make?

[Swamp Man]

Yeah, I always laugh when I hear one of those news reports. Only my closest friends and family get to see my little stockpile. They used to make fun of me before this latest shortage, guess who is smiling now?
Well you have already made a BIG mistake. NEVER show your hand/stockpile to ANYONE other then those who will be using it. My wife knows I have a stock but not even she has seen it she knows where it's at if she needs it but has NO idea what all I have.

[RP]

Well just my thoughts on this, I move around a lot and stop by a few gun shops when I can. So to speak I am a people watcher and the local shop I go for lunch since I am a cheap skate I can get a drink and candy bar for 1.10 lol. I sit at the end of the counter and see the same people everyday buying ammo since there is a limits on how many. They get as much as they can everyday and new people come in and get all they can. They don't even asked the price if he has it out they buy it. So as long as people all over are doing the same thing supplies will be low. I think in a few more months things will slow down supply will build back up and all the back ordered ammo (so they are on the list ) will start being canceled. Just my thoughts I noticed AR 15s are back on the racks and are starting to get dust on them I think ammo will soon follow if nothing happens. I live in the south and if they say snow all the milk and bread in the stores is gone fast and I never seen the snow keep you from moving more than three days. Kind of the same thing. So when supplies are back and prices are down stock up it will happen again.