Short shells (like aquila) diy?

[preparehandbook]

I have done a lot of swapping Lee key slugs into Wally World birdshot and now am looking to branch out.

My Brother and I are setting up a loading bench and boolit casting area so we can start loading 12 gauge in bulk.

What i am wondering is how to load short shells like the 1 3/4 aquilas.

Mostly I want to load single round ball loads (.690?), though if I could work out a load for the Lee slug that would be alright too.

Our intended use is mostly for plinking, so maximum power and pinpoint accuracy are not crucial.

[dbosman]

There is a load given here, http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-178253.html
How safe or what ever is a question for the poster and you.

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/ might be the go to folks for data.

Rather than deal with a mini shell casing, why not go with standard components and load data?

Update
The Hodgdon 2003 Annual Manual has some information about making and loading 2 1/2" and 2" shells.

[preparehandbook]

I was figuring on cutting down existing shells.

To prep a Winchester Universal for a Lee Key Slug I trim off the crimp (I roll crimp in a drill press) so I have hundreds of shells that are already pretty short.

[dverna]

I can see value in the shorter shells over and above the possibility of stuffing more in the magazine.

For example, you could load slugs in a short shell and tell by sight/feel which shells are slugs. But this is entirely dependent on the ability of shorter shells to cycle reliably.

[dverna]

Load Type Gauge Shot Wt. Powder Primer Wad Powder Wt Pressure Vel. (ft/s)

Lead Shot 12 7/8 oz. Internat'l Win. 209 BP Compact Euro. 16 8,400 PSI 1180
Lead Shot 12 1 oz. Universal Win. 209 BP Ultra Short Euro. 18.5 9,200 PSI 1180

The above load data is from Hodgdon and is for 2" STS hulls

I do not see why it would not be possible to use the same data for loading slugs depending on wads needed.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Sure it can be done - just don't use loading data for standard length shells and then use shorter wads to compensate for lack of space. This is the equivalent of seating a boolit deeper, i.e. increasing pressure!

For light plinking loads I would use a fast burning powder, like Red Dot or even Bullseye, and then gradually work up a suitable load. Fifteen grains Red Dot should be a good starting point in a one ounce load.

[Reverend Al]

We did this years ago with very good results. We took old AA Winchester hulls with "pooched" crimps (split or torn) and cut them down to about 2 1/4" length. We used the short little Winchester red wad with about 13 to 14 grains of Bullseye or about 15 grains of Red Dot under 7/8 oz of shot. We machined an adaptor out of aluminum to lift the hulls up in the MEC press so that we didn't have to change any of the die settings from 2 3/4". They pretty much duplicated 20 gauge target loads and were great for Skeet practice or 16 yard Trap practice, including first bird on Doubles! Brass shell length adaptors for MEC shotshell presses similar to what we made in aluminum are still available through Precision Reloading.
http://www.precisionreloading.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PRE&Product_Code=MMSB3234&Category_Code=MISC_MEC_ACCESS

[BAGTIC]

Many of these mini shells will not function reliably in repeaters. Unless your gun is chambered for mini shell, only, there is not much point to it. It is possible to load 'mini-loads' with standard components and a lot less hassle. At least the standard length cases fill the chamber reducing fouling and in the case of RB eliminating the need for the ball to make the long jump from case to leade.

[dverna]

One last thought.

Dinking aroung with shotshells is risky because the maximum pressures are lower and the tell tale signs of pressure we can employ wtih metallic cases are not there.

When I added the published data in post 5, I was a bit surprised that those slower powders would generate that much pressure with such light loads. I think that starting with typical light loads powders like Red Dot or Clays would not be wise.

[Newtire]

A thought on the shorter shell with a standard powder charge being like seating a bullet/boolit deeper; I would think that the shell being shorter doesn't really have the effect of raising the pressure since the distance from the top of the powder charge to the base of the wad column is exactly the same=no distance at all, long or short shell. What makes the difference is when you are loading a bullet closer to the powder charge and you shorten the case air volume. I have loaded many many short loads made by trimming cases. In my year or so of loading paper hulls with my hand Lee Loader, I used to trim all the raggedy hulls and use them until pin holes appeared just above the brass. I just used a shorter wad column. I had it down to where my Dad's M-12 would hold 4 shells even with the plug and still function.

I load my 10 gauge hulls the same way and use a roll crimper from Precision in my drill press. Had alot of fun shooting clay targets with my kids using those.

Just be sure to inspect the hull for any sign of a loose basewad. The loose basewad lets powder gas in between it and the brass rim and blows thru the brass head right at the edge of the rim where the brass is thinnest. So, that's my story and I'm stickin to it.

Be Safe!

[turbo1889]

One note of caution I can add. If you are going to use slugs cast for soft alloy stick to wad-slugs (slugs that go inside shot wads) rather then full bore slugs. Full bore hollow base slugs from soft alloy have a unique problem with shell cases significantly shorter then the length of the chamber. Just like in a muzzle loader a soft lead hollow base slug will "bump up" to expand to tightly match the inside diameter of the bore. That can result in a serious problem with a shell case that is significantly shorter then the length of the chamber. Given enough open length in the chamber a soft lead, hollow base, full bore slug can "bump up" to the diameter of the chamber which is significantly larger then the bore diameter and can then get stuck at the end of the chamber and act as a bore obstruction and the gun can blow itself up.

There was one individual on this forum who had exactly that happen and blew off the top of the barrel on his gun when trying to make these short shell loads. The slug (I believe it was the Lyman foster mold cast from pure lead) was stuck in the barrel in the end of the chamber.

Long story short, shells significantly shorter then the chamber length use round balls or wad slugs from fairly hard alloy. Soft alloy, hollow base, full bore diameter can potentially "bump up" to the chamber diameter forward of the shell and get stuck in the end of the chamber in the forcing cone area and act as a bore obstruction.

[Newtire]

Good point on not using slugs in those little puppies. Sounds like a bad idea.

[turbo1889]

Not saying don't use slugs - saying don't use slugs that have the potential to "bump up" in the chamber. Not all slug designs cast from all alloys have that potential, some do.

[Carryacolt]

Turbo,
Are you referring to the "force cone" ?

[turbo1889]

Turbo,
Are you referring to the "force cone" ?

Yes, "End of the Chamber" = "Forcing Cone".

Not everyone understands what forcing cone means especially those that normally reload for metallic cartridges not shot shells. Most understand a chamber (except on obscure ancient healed cartridges) is larger diameter then the main barrel bore and that if a slug or bullet gets bumped up to chamber size and then has to get squeezed back down at the end of the chamber to fit the bore things can go bad with that combination. Doesn't happen unless the shell is considerably shorter then the chamber but if that is the case in the right (or more correctly the wrong) situation it can happen so best to keep that in mind and avoid soft lead hollow base full bore diameter slugs that are easily "bumped up" in such short shells in long chambers.

[longbow]

Listen to turbo!

I thought I had posted this here already but it must have been another thread. I had exactly what turbo describes happen to me and it cost me a gun and some hearing in my right ear.

I decided that some of my older hulls could be cut down and a Lyman Foster slug be loaded in a short hull and don't you know that the cushion leg doesn't need to be there for a slug so... shortened hull and shortened wad column. Since a friend had done this with 0.715" round balls successfully (using shot loads), it had to be safe right?

Well, I fired a few in my Browning BPS with slug barrel and they kicked! Extraction was a bit sticky too but I didn't think much about it because the components and charge were from the book. Top end slug loads but from the book... for standard length hull with cushion leg wad.

Well, I took some out in the bush with my Remington single shot and first pull of the trigger the gun came apart. I had minor shrapnel damage but nothing serious. The entire top of the chamber blew off and there were visible lead streaks from the end of where the hull was to the forcing cone.

Since I have learned a few things, one being that when using relatively fast powders at least the cushion leg crushes creating more volume so less pressure at ignition. These were loads from the Lyman manual using PB which is fairly fast. So, my take is the combination of no cushion to give at ignition and the slugging up of the Lyman Foster (soft lead with base filled with cornmeal to keep wads out) then the oversize chamber filling slug met up with the forcing cone and BOOM!

I wish I had kept the remains for show and tell but I tossed then when we moved a while later. it was very evident though that the slug swelled to fill the chamber then met the forcing cone.

BPI load data for short hulls shows similar trends with pressure when no cushion leg is present.

Solid slugs or balls should not be a problem this way.

Play but play safe!

Longbow