help I.D my rifle

[justing]

so i have done some digging on this gun and have a slight understanding but more info is better she is a F.N 1889 chambered in 7mm mauser (7x57) thanks.

[justing]

6607566076660776607866079

[justing]

if you need to see a pic of something let me know

[KCSO]

The mouser round was a little known round similar to the 7 MM Mauser and was designed for really small game hunting. It pushed a 7mm round ball at 450 fps and was deadly on small rodents...

In reality you have me stumped on this one. The 1889's I have had were all single line magazines that extended below the stock. I am just guessing that this is some type of conversion as I did have an 1889 rifle with modifications that was supposedly b=converted in the 1930's. The stumper is that all the 1889's i have ever seen were 7.62 Belgian/Argentine caliber, althoght I did have a rebarreled Argentine sporter in 7MM Mauser once. I will have to do some research here.

[justing]

sorry 7mm Mauser my bad

[justing]

i will try to get the stock off and look for any marks.

[Multigunner]

Looks like a 1893 or 1895.
Didn't know that FN made these. FN made a lot of rifles with the 1898 type actions.

Could this be for a Mexican contract?

PS
A quick look around revealed that FN made aprox 40,000 1893 rifles, they made no more of this model after 1896.
The FN rifles bear no national markings, and may have been used by several countries.
Some believed used by Spain had the rear sight replaced , the FN made sight being a bit on the weak side.

[justing]

a little history, my brother was stationed in Iraq and before the army changed its rules he shipped this back to me. that's all i really know

[justing]

its not Khyber pass

[Dschuttig]

IIRC 7mm mauser was first introduced with the spanish model 1893, and had been invented a year earlier. That would mean in 1889 it would have been chambered in 7,65mm. It is possible that the action was made earlier, but clearly in 1889 7mm didn't exist and neither did staggered round magazines.

Keep in mind that several countries rebuilt everything. Look at the turks, they made Gew88's into sorta mauser pattern rifles, so that would mean anything is possible.

[justing]

i am confused i shoot 7mm Mauser in it and no bulging at all once i get home i will look for marks on the barrel and post some pics

[justing]

thanks for all the help so far

[MtGun44]

AFAIK (not an expert but I own a bunch of Mausers) many 7x57s, there is no model 1889, it looks like a
Mauser model 1893 or 1895. Again, AFAIK, this model was not produced until about 1893, hence the
name. The date on the receiver ring is very confusing to me, clearly it says 1889, but this is 4 years
ahead of the model 1893 which is generally thought to be the first of this type. Also, at this point
they were made by Ludwig Lowe which then changed to Deuchwaffenfabrik about 1895 or 6, but
same company. I did not know that FN was even in existence in 1889, but never really paid any
attention to the founding of FN.

I have seen the 1981 Argentine Mausers but these have a different bolt and totally different extractor
system - this is the 93 and later extractor and bolt. WEIRD. Maybe the conversion is correct,
since the 91s were a single stack mag that extends well below the stock and the 93s were the
first of the staggered flush mags, as far as I know, again. I wonder if a 93 bolt will fit into a
91 action. . . . . . . maybe some sort of an assembly accident and not safe to shoot.

All of what I see is entirely consistent with a 1893 Mauser, bolt type and extractor, staggered
box mag, design of forend iron, front sight, cleaning rod, EVERYTHING says 1893 or 1895
except the receiver ring marking. Some sort of fake Mauser copy by an ignorant guy that
just put the wrong date???

Dutchman needs to weigh in on this one! I am puzzled. I think I am about to be educated.

Bill

[Dutchman]

I'm with you, Bill. It's a 1893 Mauser.

The m/1889 is a Belgian model 7.65x53mm. It looks like the m/1890 Turk and then the m/1891 Argentine. But the m/1889 had a barrel jacket like the m/1888 German Commission Rifle.

Dutch

[justing]

so how do we explain the date and is it safe to shoot i have already put 100 of so rounds through her with no issue

[justing]

FN originated in the small city of Herstal, near Liège. The Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre (French for National Factory of Weapons of War) was established in 1889 to manufacture 150,000 Mauser Model 89 rifles ordered by the Belgian Government. so fn was making guns in 1889 but your saying it not an 1889 it an 1893

[gew98]

I've had a couple of these FN 7mm's. The 93's had a squared bottom bolt face , the 95's a rounded face. The "1889" stamping is a post production bogus stamping. NONE of these FN small ring mausers I owned or have handled had a date mark...let alone unevenly applied. The belgian '89 mausers had a straight line box magazine feed , had jacketed barrels and were all in 7,65 caliber. This is not one of them .
Shoot it for what it is...but it's been altered.

[copperlake]

Way cool! Really exciting. It has (?) to be a '93. A wild thought: the year date does not look straight. Done by hand? Wrong punch, an eight for a nine in the third number? Also, is it me or does the receiver ring cut aft of the upper lug buttress seem to taper forward to starboard? justing, more pics please.

[justing]

6628166282662836628466285662866628766288

[justing]

662896629066291

[blastit37]

Clearly its a model 1893 Mauser made by FN. I remember reading somewhere that there was a rule about shipping rifles back from the desert. The rifles had to be older than 189x something. The font of the date is clearly different than the rest of the rifle and was probably added to meet this requirement.

[Multigunner]

The number may have nothing to do with the date, could be a ownership number code such as those sometimes stamped on Enfield rifles used by military schools.

[justing]

any idea as far as the markings on the barrel?

[MtGun44]

7.0 is probably 7mm diam.
The crown over oval with ELG and star is Belgian proof mark that started in
1893 and used to present. Bolt bottom at face is square. Both are 1893 proof.
Disassembly pic further prove it is an 1893 Mauser, almost certainly 7x57 and the
7.0 on barrel is very likely the final proof needed, but I have not actually
seen this on my guns, that I remember. Far from home now so cannot
check.


Date is clearly wrong, hard to know why, probably just faked, but why would
someone try to make it appear older? The "no paperwork" date in US is 1898
so a '93 makes this for sure, no need to fake an earlier date that seems obvious
to me. Try to guess why some knucklehead would stamp a fake date on an
old rifle later is pretty much a fool's errand.


Bill

[justing]

so its good to keep shooting?

[Dutchman]

I'd want to put a headspace no-go gauge in it just because... but then I have a set of 7x57 headspace gauges.

Other than that I see no reason you can't or shouldn't shoot it.

Any more I shoot more cast bullets in rifles than jacketed. Especially with 100 yr old rifles. I seem to get more enjoyment out of shooting cast bullets than jacketed..

Guess that's why I hang out in this forum, ya'think?

Dutch

[justing]

66357

[justing]

i would tent to agree with your statement

[MtGun44]

Yes, if the cases look normal after firing. Headspace check is good, but if you don't have a
gunsmith that can check it nearby, just be aware of possible long headspace in old rifles.
This just means that the distance from the chamber shoulder to the bolt face is longer than
normal. If, after firing, you set the full length sizing die to NOT move the shoulder back -
done by setting the die to just barely size the neck, then slowly setting it deeper and watching
the sizing line on the neck move down to JUST reach the end of neck or a hair short. Then make
sure that the cases will rechamber freely. Then they will not be shortened by resizing, then
restretched by the next firing, then reshortened by the next reloading, and failing quickly.
If you resize the absolute minimum your case life will be good for even longer than specification
headspace. Such ammo may not fit another gun, tho. This standardization is the whole point
of standard headspace, to make sure the ammo and chamber are very close to the same
dimensions.

Also, note that the bolt is a mismatch, but most of the time they still have proper headspace,
in my experience, but this is not a guarantee by any chance. With 100rds already, I think
you have proofed it pretty well. All factory? Any reloads? What factory ammo?

If using factory ammo look for Rem or Fed 175 RN loads, these are held to proper pressure
levels.

If you use a Hornady 175 RN with a moderate load of something like 4064 or slower in the powder
range, getting 2200-2300 fps should be perfectly safe. I have found a load with ~40gr H4831 (very
slow powder so low pressures for 2300 fps in a LONG barrel) that is a good duplicate of the
factory load ballistically, so shoots to the sights (which will be about 18" high at 100yds, by the
way) you probably want a taller front sight for normal use. These guns were factory sighted
for 300 or 400 meters, IIRC. WAY high.

I have a number of 7x57 Mausers and this one load shoots accurately and to the sights in all
of them.

Of course, low pressure loads like 16 gr 2400 or 10-12 gr Unique under a cast boolit can work
wonderfully, too. One issue is that many 7x57s have way oversized bores, workable with .284 jbullets,
but requiring a .287 or larger boolit to work well. Finding large enough molds can be a problem,
but "beagling" the mold (look it up here) can increase the diameter.

Look up data here or in your load manuals, stay below 45, 000 psi
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Bill

[justing]

i put 60 or so factory all Remington and the rest reloads i used 130gr gas checked cast over 46 grains of H4350

[MtGun44]

Sounds like you are good do go. Were the Rems 175 RN or the 140 Spire point?

IME, these rifles shoot best with 175 RN, since that is what they were originally designed
to shoot.

Probably going to want a taller front sight. They are available.

Bill

[justing]

ok so one more thing any idea on a value for this rifle?

[MtGun44]

$100-200 depending on bore condition. I'd call it good, bolt face has some
nasty pitting, not too unusual, but not helpful. IIRC the bolt is mismatched,
also hurts value. I've seen folks asking $300 or so for guns like this, but not
selling.

Bill

[Multigunner]

The first Spanish Mausers in 7mm were made from Turk 1892 7.65 Mausers.
Spain had bought a few 1892 Carbines in 7.65 for their navy. They liked the action and had a few thousand 7mm rifles built on 1892 actions, then had a slightly improved version manufactured as the more familar 1893 rifle.

I'm still figuring this for a ID number rather than a date. I remember someone saying the date stamped on his revolver was in the 1800's but when I looked at it i saw he had mistake the serial number for a date.

Years ago a gentleman from Australia posted images of some .22 Enfield training rifles on another board.
All the rifles from a particular cadet school had the same number stamped on the bolt handle. This was a number code for that particular school.

PS
Just found this.

A 7MM MAUSER 'BRAZILIAN' MODEL 1908 RIFLE BY D.W.M., No. 9115, the receiver-ring marked 'Estados Unidos Do Brazil 15 De Novembro De 1889', retaining virtually all its original finish
Apparently an 1889 stamping on a Brazilian Mauser is to commemorate some important event in that country's history.
from wiki


On November 15, 1889 Marshal Deodoro da Fonseca deposed Emperor Dom Pedro II, declared Brazil a republic, and reorganized the government.





First Brazilian flag after empire's fall, created by Ruy Barbosa, used between November 15th and 19th of 1889.
From 1889 to 1930, the government was a constitutional democracy, but democracy was nominal.