230Gr 45ACP Weight variation

[Jon]

I seem to be having some issues with flyers. How much weight variation is still ok for a 230gr bullet?

I don't have a chrono so I can't tell if I'm seeing velocity variation as well.

At 25yds, you would think that it wouldn't make much difference, but even with a rest they seem to be all over the place. Some will be centered, and others are at the edge of the paper.

I'm loading on a turret press with a powder measure that seems to stay within 0.1gr of my usual 4.0gr of Bullseye.

[trixter]

Are you using the round nose boolit? If so the seating depth is pretty critical. I have found that I must seat them right up to the very start o the curve of the nose (Deep into the case). I don't want to insult you but 25 yards, is quite a ways form the target. How well do you do at closer range? Your are a little on the weak side for that much boolit too. Maybe bump up the powder charge a little and see if that helps. That 230 gr boolit is a heavy one.

[Jon]

I'm using the LEE 230gr RN TL from a 6 cavity mold. I haven't been that picky about the bullets since most of the time I'm just plinking. However, the club has a pistol shoot once a month, and I'm slowly getting better at 25yds with my MKIII and my 1911. A rest helps some with the 1911, but I'm still getting flyers. I'll double check the seating depth, but I have them within spec, and the same as some FMJ jacketed ammo that I have for reference.

[Fluxed]

Group some of your bullets as cast by weight, then shoot those to see if weight difference is causing your problem. I'd weigh about 100 bullets and then select the 50-75 percentile for the test.

[gray wolf]

I'm slowly getting better at 25yds with my MKIII and my 1911. A rest helps some with the 1911, but I'm still getting flyers
Just how good are you ??

[Case Stuffer]

Back when I shot IPSC ,bowling pins and steel plate matches with a 1911 Boolit of choice was a 200 gr. Lee SWC seated to an overall of 1.242 . WW 231 6.2 gr.from an AMT Hard baller 5"rel 494 FPS an from my Colt comp. with compensated 5-3/4 barrel 920 FPS. Some of the bullseye shooter at the range could shoot one raged hole groups at 25 yards with my loads and that was one handed off hand. The best I could do was nail quart oil cans at 25 yards but I never was a bulls eyes pistol shooter.

[Jon]

Not nearly as good as the guys shooting contenders with scopes, but I can usually keep them in the black. Most of you guys are probably better, but hey, it's fun to get out and shoot.

[jmsj]

Jon,
I think a little more info would be helpful.
Have you shot groups with factory ammo or known accurate ammo for comparison?
Have you slugged your bore and measured your as cast and sized bullets?
Have you pulled some boolits and measured the diameter from some of your loaded rounds?
These are just some of the problems that can cause flyers. Let us know, I'm sure someone will be able to point you in the right direction.
Good luck, jmsj

[fredj338]

As long as there are no internal voids, 1-2gr variation high or low isn't going to affect your groups. I suspect it is the shooter. While 25yds is not a long way to shoot, it is for a lot of new shooters. On a good day, my best 1911, I can still hold sub 2" slow fire groups @ 25yds, even w/ my old eyes. If you are testing ammo, then you must shoot off a rest to really get the best results. You want to remove as much of the shooter error as possible. I doubt it is wt variation in your cast bullets. Poor bases is a bigger problem than even 2-3gr wt variation IMO.

[wv109323]

When you say"edge of the paper" Is that the edge of the repair center or edge of the backer? Is there evidence that the boolit is keyholing?
You did not mention the firearm you are using, Is it a match pistol?
As mentioned weigh some of the bullets and load and retest. The most critical part of a cast bullet is the base. Make sure that the base is flat( without a large sprue tear) and that the edges are sharp. They should also be .452 diameter. Also 4.0 Gn. of Bullseye is a little light for that bullet. You are probably around 700 FPS with 4.0 of Bullseye and a 230 gn. boolit. I would try 4.5 or 4.8. Five (5.0) is max.
About any .45 should hold the black at 25 yds. on the standard Timed and Rapid target. 4 inches.
Also you didn't mention leading. If you have a barrel full of lead you have problems.

[Jon]

Thanks for all the tips guys. It sounds like I have a few things to check out.

I've been loading as cast since all but the worst offenders seemed to slide through the Lee .452 sizing die that I have. I have not been measuring them.

The bases aren't perfect, and that could be a not so great sprue plate, or me being impatient with the mold. I'm probably not letting it cool enough, and the base is still a little soft. That may be my biggest problem right there.

I grabbed the last few bullets from the last batch. They measured out as...

weight Nominal Deviation Percent Deviation max dev

233.5 230.0 3.5 1.5 5.3
228.2 230.0 -1.8 -0.8
231.9 230.0 1.9 0.8
233.5 230.0 3.5 1.5
232.0 230.0 2.0 0.9

The 1911 is a bit of a mutt gun. It had a collet bushing on it, but that broke awhile back, and I installed a used bushing that a friend had "temporarily" about 2 years ago. You know how that goes sometimes. :smile: It could be a bit tighter, but it's not too bad. It has stock 1911 sights, which aren't the best.

I haven't been terribly picky about things because for awhile, it was more accurate than I was at 15yds or so. Now that I've been able to tighten my groups up a bit, I notice the odd flyers that I'm pretty sure aren't operator error.
I suppose it wouldn't kill me to actually buy a box of factory ammo to see if that makes any difference. I haven't shot any in years since reloads are so much cheaper these days.

4.0 gr was what I started with for plinking, and it seemed to work ok. I could bring it up, but I'm not sure what effect that would have. Would that raise or lower my POI?

I'm using a standard NRA pistol 25yd target. I believe they are 12"x12" I'm still on that piece of paper most of the time. Occasionally, I'll be outside that, but not usually.

Like everything it's a work in progress, and it's fun to get out.

[prs]

All of that and he still hitting the target at 25 yards! Give that man a good gun with good ammo and watch him go!

All kidding aside, I've been told that fair accuracy comes pretty easy. Good accuracy requires great attention to detail and consistency as well as talent. Best accuracy is demanding of perfection in equipment, skill, and execution. I'm fair; at best.

prs

[Fluxed]

233.5 230.0 3.5 1.5 5.3
228.2 230.0 -1.8 -0.8
231.9 230.0 1.9 0.8
233.5 230.0 3.5 1.5
232.0 230.0 2.0 0.9

If I looked at a large group of bullets (maybe 100 or more) and a fair number of them were light like the 228.2, I would eliminate those bullets from the selection and expect better groups from the remaining bullets. Five bullets as you list is not enough of a sample to make a real judgment on, but for purposes of this discussion it does give you a direction to follow.

Go weigh a bunch of bullets straight from the mold and kick out any light ones as you describe and see if the remaining bullets shoot better for you. If so, you have an answer - simply be more selective in your quality control of your cast bullets going forward.

[Jon]

Five is a very small sample, but it was all that I had left from that batch of cast bullets. I have a newer batch that I can weight 30 or so, to see where the distribution lies.

We have a match next Sunday, so hopefully I can tighten it up a little bit this weekend.

Has anyone found that different cases make any difference? I know some size harder than others, especially those AMERC cases, but they seem to function fine.