Effects of lube on accuracy?

[armoredman]

I did make it to an indoor range today, had to drive down to Tucson on an errand, so I stopped at The Marksman II, great place. I shot some perfectly acceptable groups, but many had unexplained flyers. Will the LLA, being all over the boolit, affect accuracy this way? Would scraping/steel wooling the excess of the part above the case help?
It was very cool showing my buddies the boolits I "made"...:-D

[Ben]

I seriously doubt that excess Alox would have any affects at all and be creating those " flyers". Your flyers are more likely the result of :

Bullets with an internal flaw.
Bullets that may not fit the bore properly.
Powder charges with very slight deviations.
Human sighting error.

There are a hundred other variables that I'd look hard at before I'd believe that the Alox is the culprit.

[jack19512]

I use LLA also and have never wiped any off and most of my cast bullets are doing real well.

[armoredman]

OK. I did not weigh any of my cast boolits, so an internal void is possible, then? I somehow never thought of that. Oops.
Thank you!

[44man]

Fliers are funny things and seem more common with cast. Even perfect boolits will give a flier now and then. I have always wondered if the previous boolit didn't leave a strip of lead in the bore to screw up the next.
Everyone will have an explanation for it and give all kinds of reasons, but I can't. I will forever be baffled and angry when one shot goes out.

[armoredman]

Well, they weren't TOO bad, opening up groups to 3 inches at 10 yards. I just get a kick out of shooting boolits I cast.:castmine:

[mstarling]

Congrats on finding great satisfaction in shooting your own cast slugs! It is great fun for sure ... and the price is right.

Must say, though, that your group is a pretty awful. How well does the gun do with the best jacketed bullets and load you've found? In a .45 ACP, 9mm, or Super the cast load should be pretty darn close to the jacketed load if everything is right.

Best to shoot for comparison with a rest. Really sophisticated testing would be done from a Ransom rest to eliminate the human error.

At any rate, your group size sounds like there is something fairly major wrong. Maybe inconsistent projectiles, charge, or incorrect diameter for the bore of the weapon. An inconsistent crimp will add to group size as well ... but not that much.

Keep looking for ways to improve your product and it won't be long before your cast ammo is as good as any you can buy.

[Petander]

Do you get any leading? It will affect accuracy.


Try shooting a couple of groups at a longer distance, then shoot 100-150 rounds any way you like and finally shoot some more groups without cleaning. Any difference in group size compared to the first groups?


I just did this with a "new" Commander when I was testing a load. It doesn´t lead much at all anymore but the only way I could tell how much is "much" , was to shoot more groups after a few boxes of ammo through it. I did a careful hand lapping job on the barrel, it was new and very rough. Now it is very nice.


When you find a good load the added confidence makes your shooting better too. I like to think accuracy first, it helps with everything... my personal quality control with all this cast stuff is pretty high but at the same time I think K.I.S.S.

[armoredman]

This revolver is quite accurate - with Winchester +P 158gr LSWC I printed a 3 inch group standing two hand hold at 25 yards.
Here is a target from 10 yards, double action, handloads.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/PICT0003.jpg

[Lloyd Smale]

armordan just because your gun shoots that hornady load so well doesnt guarantee that it will shoot all bullets that well. Ive seen guns shoot one inch 25 yard groups with one bullet that would barely keep them on the paper with another. Id about bet your gun just doesnt like the load. Try a bunch of differnt powders and primers or even a different cast bullet. Ive sold guns that would drive nails with jacketed and just didnt like cast no matter what I tried. There just not any good to me if they wont shoot cast.

[hunter64]

I also wondered about different lubes and how they effected accuracy. I have a 240gn. Keith 421 mold and I casted about 300 bullets one day. I weighed each one and put it into there own little pile so that each bullet would weight exactly the same. Once I got 50 bullets all weighting the exact same I made up different lubes with formula's found here on the site. I put 5 different lubes on 10 bullets each and used my 8.5grn of Unique that my 629 with a 10x scope loves. At 25 yards I shot 10 rounds of each and cleaned the revolver between 10 shot groups and let it cool down to see what the difference in lube has. They were all about the same biggest was 2.25" and the smallest was a hair under 2" which is great for 10 shots and basically one big hole in the targets. So with my informal experimenting I have to agree with everyone else and say that most likely candidate for a flier other than human error is the bullet itself.

[armoredman]

Unfortunately, this is the only 38 I own, and the only 357dia mold I own, as well. I would love another mold, like a Lee tumble lube, but the $ won't be there for a while. I did get semi-decent results with a differant powder weight earlier, outside in a breeze. I also don't bench my sidearms, shooting is always done two hand hold standing. No Ransom Rest available.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/PICT0151.jpg

I have almost a full pound of this 700X to use up, so it looks to me that this boolit may be just an excellent plinking slug. No problem, works for me! I am not the worlds' greatest shot, but I am having fun. Maybe when I can afford a differant mold, something in a125gr TL maybe, I'll see what else I can do.
Thanks for all the positive comments and feedback!

[44man]

Lube has a very large effect on accuracy but not with low velocity stuff. About any lube works for that.
It is when you get into high velocity boolits that lube has to be worked like loads. I like Lar's lubes and Felix and since they work so great with my hunting loads, I just use them for light loads too. I have never liked Alox but will admit, for light loads it works.
However, one never knows and a lube change might just tighten groups. What is there to lose by trying something else?
Keep an open mind and never stick to one thing.
If powder changes, lube changes, primer changes and load changes won't make a boolit shoot, the gun just doesn't like the boolit! That is way more common then anything else you do.

[longbow]

Armoredman:

I'll add my 2 cents worth here. I can't speak for handgun much but I have had trouble with too much lube on rifle boolits. At least that was my conclusion.

I heavily coated Lyman 314299's with Lee Liquid Alox with a light load of 13 gr. Unique. I had been getting reasonable groups prior to the heavier lubing but a little leading. After the extra lube was applied I was finding greasy holes in the targets and larger groups. I scraped the extra lube off the exposed bore riding nose and groups shrunk back to what I had before.

I also remember reading an article about schutzen rifles quite a few years ago and how the shooters (at least those interviewed) said that too much lube causes the boolit to "float" which reduces accuracy - just enough lube to stop leading and no more was the goal.

I'm sure there are lots of opinions and few solid answers so take this as information to digest as you will.

Longbow

[armoredman]

Thanks, Longbow. I figure I can make enough of them to try it! The joys of experimentation, a.k.a, a bad day shooting beats a good day at work.