lee slugs

[savage308]

I am trying to work up a load for lee 1oz slugs that I cast from stick-on ww and when I weigh them after casting they don't even weigh 7/8 of an ounce. they weigh 360 grains on my rcbs scale which converts to less than 7/8oz. am I doing something wrong? also I am using RIO 2 3/4 pre primed hulls and mec78t4
wads (they are a replacement for WAA12L) with 20 grains of green dot. the loads all crimp good using a star crimp (I do not have a roll crimp tool) I have only loaded 3 shells to see what they looked like and haven't shot them yet. I am doing more searching to make sure the load will be safe and the slug weight has me worried.

[pipehand]

My Lee 1 ounce slugs are actually coming out at a couple of grains (insignificant) over one ounce using clip ons. Their overall length is .635+/-". If yours are significantly shorter, then I'd say someone put a 7/8ths mold in a 1 ounce mold box. Diameter wise, mine come out at .679 to .682"

You may want to check the accuracy of the scale with a known weight.

I just checked the Alliant Reloading Guide, and while they didn't list the Rio hull, I'd imagine its close enough to the Fiocchi straight hull that for all practical purposes the data should interchange. It doesn't look like you could get hurt with the combo you're loading if your scale checks out. With 1 ounce of fine shot it is supposed to be around 7,900 psi. A slug will make less pressure, and a lighter slug less still. Worst case, it won't make enough pressure and will make that BLOOP sound instead of a BANG.

[wildlew]

'' A slug will make less pressure ''

where did you learn that?

[wildlew]

'' A slug will make less pressure ''

where did you learn that?

[pipehand]

'' A slug will make less pressure ''

where did you learn that?
Here.

Keep reading.

[dverna]

Wildlew,

Do not let guys like Pipehand drive you away. This site is full of helpful people.

If PH knew the answer, he would post a reference. I am with you. The only way I can see a slug giving less pressure is if the slug/wad are a loose fit in the bore and then accuracy may suffer. If the slug/wad are a "good" fit, I would not expect much difference. If the fit is tight, pressures will be higher. So saying a slug gives less pressure is not correct in every case.

[pipehand]

Didn't mean to be a pill guys. I thought a solid projectile would give higher pressures too, but it turns out that the shot column actually exerts more outward force on the barrel and makes more pressure than a reasonably well fitting solid projectile. Does it sound counterintuitive, yup.

Haven't bookmarked the references to support that, but there are a bunch on this site, and some over at Shotgun World. I am not the shotgun guru here, but I have read the posts in this subforum going back to the beginning. There's a lot of good info. I sure don't want to "drive anyone away".

[pipehand]

Try this guys http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=001951264366462437169:ggn3vg-bjum. Its the custom google search feature for the Castboolits site. Look for posts by Turbo1889, Longbow, Videomemories, Blammer and others with shotgun experience much greater than mine. I suggest you type in "shotgun slug pressure".

[dverna]

PH

I am not trying to be a pill either. From what I have seen, the recommendation is that if you require more than 6-8 lbs of force to push the slug/wad through the barrel the load may cause a high pressure. There are so many wad/hull/barrel combinations out there that it seem unlikely anyone would make a blanket statement that "slug loads have a lower pressure". Add to that whether someone is using a fast powder or one of the slower ones and it is not an easy answer.

Even if one of the "experienced" posters here made a claim, I know of only one guy on the site who is able to measure pressure and he does not post on this topic (to the best of my knowledge). One cannot determine pressure by measuring velocity so how could someone determine if the pressure is safe?

It would be most helpful if you could find a thread and post a link here. When I tired I could not find anything.

Thanks

[pipehand]

Don,
Here's one http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?179830-New-Reloader-Help-with-reduced-recoil-12ga-00-and-slug-loads , post 3
And another
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?19895-Anyone-use-clays-powder-with-slugs, postS #5&6
One more
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?107590-Payload-Substituting Read the whole thing. Even shows pressure trace data.
There are more, but the last on pretty much sums up my position.

How many fine shot loads do you find calling for 49 grains of Bluedot behind 1 ounce?

The ability to push the slug in wad through the bore with x pounds of pressure was stated by Ajay for accuracy reasons, not pressure. The plastic petals of the wad will give way long before the slug deforms. If the wad loses 1 out of 4 petals due to the forcing cone, but only sometimes, it affects the way the slug is released from the wad, and can cause inaccuracy.

One of the posts linked quoted Richard Lee as saying that the Key drive slug could be substituted in any shot load. Now I'm sure that there are some screaming shot loads out there (some of the Ballistics Products data come to mind) but I outgrew the "faster is always better" stage pretty early in my reloading experience. Factory slugs are going out over 1600 fps, unless you pay extra for the TACTICAL low recoil slugs. One ounce slugs at less than 1300 fps are a whole lot more fun. 1100 even better.

I don't live in a state that mandates slugs for deer hunting. Here in South Carolina we have a long season, and can kill 'em with anything that goes bang or twang. The reason I got into reloading for the shotgun again ( previous experience was making trap loads in the early 80's while I was in college) was to be able to practice with a cheap 870 Express I keep in my camper when I'm working out of town. It and a 1911 are my "get home" guns if the whole world goes bad. I only load a 9 pellet .311" load, the Lee slugs, and a recreation of the Dixie Tri-Ball load that was posted on this site. Honestly, though the recoil is definitely stout, the Tri-Ball load has been more consistently accurate than anything I've been able to get out of the Lee slug. I am seriously considering getting a .678" round ball mould for a single projectile shotshell.

I was able to shoot a box (25) of the Lee slugs today at less than 20 yards with my XS bead sighted shotgun. There are just too many "fliers" to make me confident in using them on game at this point. Shot a few of the Tri-ball and although they print 4" high, 3 shots made a ragged large hole. Just more evidence that I'm not the expert of the Lee slug.

I don't know about you, but I'm waiting to hear back from the OP about what slug he really has, or if his scale is goofy.

[TonyfromItaly]

'' A slug will make less pressure ''

where did you learn that?

We have done pressure barrel tests using the same powder charge both for lee 1 oz and 1 oz bird shot. The difference has been about 200 bars( 2900 psi)

Lee slug in plastic wad with star crimp and 1.75 grams of S4 615 bars ( 8920 psi )
1 oz (28 grams) of #8 bird shot with star crimp 1.75 grams S4 820 bars ( 11890 psi)

Interesting thing, was that the velocities were about the same!! (incredibly fast for bird shot)

as stated before, the same weight pellets produce more counterpressure. For this reason we, as a rule of thumb, and it is safe as it can be, take the powser charge for a 32 grams load and increase it by 15%.

numbers do not lie!!;)

[dverna]

PH

I really appreciate the work you did to dig this up. I learned a lot!!!

Thanks,
Don

[pipehand]

Wasn't work, Don. I actually enjoy reading through the older posts-- I learned a lot,too.

[savage308]

thanks for all the replies. Well I finally got good weather to try the Lee slugs in a RIO hull with a grey colored MEC wad with 20.0 green dot and a star crimp. the results were great! I used a lead sled that has a strap for the barrel
and a small rope to pull the trigger because I am testing unknown combinations and wanted to live to tell about it.
at 50 yards it had a 3" group and about half of the wads I could recover were still in good shape. the other half had some petals missing. I am going to have to add some cards behind the slug to make them work better. to PIPEHAND thanks for the slug info,my scale is a calibrated RCBS 750 and im confident its ok. I also tried one poor mans combo where I took a cheap walmart win. #7 bird shot shell and opened the crimp and removed the shot and loaded the lee slug and it also did very good. im not planning on doing that a lot but I found it would work in a pinch if I ran out of powder or primers. I cant tell you enough to be safe trying these loads that's why I used a cylinder bore shotgun in very good shape and a lead sled from 20 feet back with a string. DO NOT TRY THIS WITH ANYTHING SMALLER THAN CYLINDER BORE.

[pipehand]

Lead sled 20 foot back with a string. That sure is exercising caution! Did you get the 3" 50 yard group pulling on the string? Did you ever put the calipers to the slug and find out if it was the 7/8 ounce version?

[ReloaderLarry]

I'd personally just like to know how to make that dang 7/8th oz lee slug work well on its own !

It works well for me in "buck and ball" loads, but on its own for me : Nada. I've tried Unique, HS-6, Different hulls.... I'd like to use these remy hulls, and Waa12/ WT12 wads- which I have a large amount of...but just can't seem to get the job done on accuracy or complete powder burn !