Shotshell reloading question

[Solus]

What shotshells have interchangeable load data? and what load data should I use for Universal brand shot shells. I have lots of these but cant find the brand in my lyman shotshell reloading manual[smilie=b:

[Swamp Man]

I'm not sure but if you look at one of the old Lee hand loaders they gave load recipe for basic load for shotshells but don't name any brand of hull. For 410 they gave a load recipe that says 12 gr 2400 and 1/2 oz shot in 2 1/2 inch hull. You may be about to work something out along those lines by finding a basic load for the ga & size hulls you have.

[dverna]

STS and AA hulls will have "interchangeability" - at least for target loads. I have loaded over 100,000 that way but I do not "push" pressure limits.

The "Universal" hull is likely a straight walled hull but you need to check that. If it is, you can use Federal recipes. Any load for a tapered hull will be safe in a straight walled hull but you may get gas leakage around the wad and pressures and velocity will be lower.

My advice is to go to the Hodgdon and Alliant web sites for load data. Also, Ihave sent emails to Alliant and even had responses back on a weekend. Ben at Alliant seems to be very helpful.

[bruce drake]

Universal hulls are made by the same company that makes Estate hulls...Winchester. so the load data are the same in the 12 gauge Universals that I've reloaded this year as I have used in the Estate and Winchester hulls. Federal wads will work but the hulls seem to work better with AA or Winchester wads.

Bruce

[Cerberus62]

If these are the red Winchester Universal hulls, cut one in half lengthwise and you will se a separate cupped plastic basewad with a noticeable taper, getting thicker near the base. The color is usually white but I have seen red as well.

If this is what you have then you should use data for Winchester AA's.

Do not attempt to use a Federal wad or other wad designed for straight wall hulls, you will have major fit problems.

These are "tapered" hulls and the proper wads are Winchester, Remington and their clones.

[Solus]

thank you bruce and cerberus you hit the nail on the coffin. They have a tapered base wad. I thought the discription looked like a winchester AA but I wasnt sure if I could use AA wads and load data. You guys are awesome thank you. I hope this helps someone else as well.

[Cerberus62]

No problem, glad to help.

I actually prefer these hulls over the AA's. They crimp better and are easier to find. They hold up to several loadings but I don't feel bad about using them where I will lose them.

[Solus]

Yea stupid me... i just looked at the brass and it said winchester. I take it its a common mistake because i was checking online earlier and many people had asked the same question. :2 drunk buddies:

[wildlew]

I do not thank they are the same as Estate hulls

[Cerberus62]

They are not the same.

Estates are loaded in Federal paper basewad straight tube hulls. Use Federal Top Gun or "Federal Plastic Hunting Case" data for these

The Winchester Universal hull are built like the new AA-HS hulls and use AA load data.

[Solus]

good too know thanks guys I know this is old but maybe it should be made a sticky or maybe we should make a sticky of which hulls are interchangeable and which hulls can be loaded with what data

[CastingFool]

The Winchester express and the Win AA cases use the same data, even though one is high brass, the other one low brass. The brass has no bearing on the load. What is important is how the casing is made and internal volume.

[Cerberus62]

Below is a guide to the various straight wall hulls found in the US Domestic Market and Internationally. This guide is by no means complete, so if you spot something missing or incorrect, please post it so I can edit the list for accuracy.

I have made a best effort to identify the OEM manufacturer of branded hulls through published information but shot shell manufacturers may from time to time source hulls from more than one hull supplier. Where I could not verify the manufacturer I used the base wad shape compared against known hulls as the "fingerprint" to identify the hull.

Straight Wall Hull Reference

Most straightwall hulls listed here are of Reifenhauser construction, a straight plastic tube with a separate plastic base wad and metal rim. Exceptions to this are noted (*) below.

All references are for 2.75" 12 gauge. Smaller gauges from the same manufacturer will have similar construction unless noted.

Known primer dimensions are: “A” American Standard 209 =.241”-.242”: “E” European Standard .244”-.245”

European Hull Manufacturers OEM and Contract:

Cheddite: Primer Size A
Cheddite, Kemen, Kent Fast Steel, Kent Velocity, Ballistic Products Multi-Hull (w/stepped white base wad), RST, some Eley, Lyalvale, Gamebore White Gold, Hull Cartridge 65mm, English Sporter and DanArms Sport.

US Domestic Market (USDM) Federal Estate & Winchester SuperX Xpert. Both have a bright red hull with ribbed tube and low gold color steel rim.

Remington Shur-Shot (Australian distribution) http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=225338&p=2060404&hilit=+1+3%2F8+remington#p2060404

UEE/Maxam: Primer Size E
Rio, Diana, Orion, Kemen, some Eley, Lyalvale, Gamebore, Vinci, Venatum, SAGA, Cartuchos GB, Melior, Eley Hawk, Maxam, Victory.

Nobel Sport: Primer Size E
Nobel Sport, Clever Mirage, Clever Grand Italia, Clever T2.

Fiocchi: Primer Size E
Fiocchi, Ballistic Products Multi-Hull (w/flat gray 7mm base wad)

Baschieri & Pellagri (B&P): Primer Size E
B&P Proprietary hull using Gordon System cushioned plastic base wad.

Remington Shur-Shot (Australian distribution) http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=225338&p=2060404&hilit=+1+3%2F8+remington#p2060404

US Domestic Market (USDM)

Federal: Primer Size A

Gold Medal w/plastic basewad, 12 gauge 2.75" only

Top Gun* and Estate* w/wound paper base wad (Dark Maroon with silver color steel head); Top Gun 2.75", Estate 12 gauge 2.75" & 3.0"

Federal all plastic with .090 base compression formed hull. From factory buckshot, slug or steel loads. 12 gauge only, 2.75" & 3.0". Straight wall one-piece compression formed hull. Largest capacity 2.75" and 3" hull I know of.


Winchester: Primer Size A

Super-X (Cheddite) - The Cheddite Estate and Winchester are both bright red with a ribbed tube and a low, shiny gold steel head. All I have seen have a six fold crimp.

Super-X Steel Target - Red ribbed hull is the red color of the Universals, low silver colored steel head and has a low, tan plastic basewad unlike any other I have seen.

XPert Steel (Waterfowl loads) are proprietary hulls. Found with two different base-wad heights in 2.75”, 3.0” and 3.5”. Red basewad Tall, White basewad Short. No correlated load data.

**Winchester AA-HS & Universal, Super Dove, Super Speed all use separate tapered cup base wad, not considered a straight wall hull. All load with Winchester AAHS data. Primer Size A


Remington: SP Plastic, Type-6, black or yellow flat plastic base wad. Primer Size A

Remington Nitro Steel and all no-tox waterfowl loads except Sportsman Steel. Most Remington Buckshot and Slug hulls. Remington 10 gauge and 16 gauge hulls.


*Straight wall hulls but not true Reifenhauser due to paper base wad.
**Reifenhauser hulls but not true straight wall due to tapered cup base wad.

Tapered compression Formed (Remington) and Tapered Base Cup Reifenhauser (Winchester)

There is only one true "tapered" hull in the market, the Remington STS/Unibody hull described below. The other was the original Winchester AA-CF (Compression Formed), out of production for over 10 years but still found in large quantities, usually as fired hulls. These can be loaded with data for the original AACF or Remington STS/Unibody hulls.

Remington: Primer Size A

One piece compression formed plastic hull. Depending on brand may be shiny gold (Nitro27), emerald green (STS), dull green or black. 20 gauge always yellow, 28 gauge green, .410 red. 12 & 20 gauge may have six or eight fold crimp. High or low brass (STS/Nitro27) or steel (Gun Club/Sport Load) head.

All of these are interchangeable and load with the same data: STS, Nitro27, Gun Club, Sport Load, Heavy Dove, Nitro Express, Nitro Pheasant, Express Long Range, Sportsman Steel.


Winchester: Primer Size A

Winchester AA-HS: Three piece Reifenhauser with tapered base cup. Said to load with old Winchester AA Compression Formed (one piece) data but has less capacity. 12 gauge AA-HS hulls run slightly shorter than Universals. AA-HS found in glossy red and glossy dark grey with low brass heads. Heads are stamped "AA-HS"

Winchester Universal: Dull red, ribbed tube with same construction as AA-HS, low silver steel head. Used in Winchester Universal, Super Speed and most other promo non-AA loads. Not used in Winchester steel loads.


As I said, this covers a lot of ground but due to the fact that manufacturers are always introducing new brands or loads, or contracting production to foreign companies using their own components, this will always be a work in progress.

Feel free to add any verified new hulls or information so we can keep this resource current.

Regards,

Cerberus62

[Firebricker]

Solus, Your universal hulls will work fine but if you get a chance in the future to pick up some Rem STS or Fed Gold Medal you get a lot more reloads per hull. All the Remington hulls load good but the STS has all brass head instead of brass plated. I am kind of spoiled since I live close to a trap range and at the big shoots they sell used hulls of every kind reasonable. FB

[Solus]

yea I reload mostly winchester AA, remington sts(peterson), and federal 3". I was just curious about some hulls

[trapper9260]

I reload all kind of hulls and just make it all work.I have use the data from Lee ,they have it broken down to plastic base wads and fiber/paper base wads.The data is from there Lee load all reloader.

[canthitsquat]

I have a dowel with markings on it that I check the hull depth and reload accordingly.
Simplifies loading different hulls.

[scattershot]

Below is a guide to the various straight wall hulls found in the US Domestic Market and Internationally. This guide is by no means complete, so if you spot something missing or incorrect, please post it so I can edit the list for accuracy.

I have made a best effort to identify the OEM manufacturer of branded hulls through published information but shot shell manufacturers may from time to time source hulls from more than one hull supplier. Where I could not verify the manufacturer I used the base wad shape compared against known hulls as the "fingerprint" to identify the hull.

Straight Wall Hull Reference

Most straightwall hulls listed here are of Reifenhauser construction, a straight plastic tube with a separate plastic base wad and metal rim. Exceptions to this are noted (*) below.

All references are for 2.75" 12 gauge. Smaller gauges from the same manufacturer will have similar construction unless noted.

Known primer dimensions are: “A” American Standard 209 =.241”-.242”: “E” European Standard .244”-.245”

European Hull Manufacturers OEM and Contract:

Cheddite: Primer Size A
Cheddite, Kemen, Kent Fast Steel, Kent Velocity, Ballistic Products Multi-Hull (w/stepped white base wad), RST, some Eley, Lyalvale, Gamebore White Gold, Hull Cartridge 65mm, English Sporter and DanArms Sport.

US Domestic Market (USDM) Federal Estate & Winchester SuperX Xpert. Both have a bright red hull with ribbed tube and low gold color steel rim.

Remington Shur-Shot (Australian distribution) http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=225338&p=2060404&hilit=+1+3%2F8+remington#p2060404

UEE/Maxam: Primer Size E
Rio, Diana, Orion, Kemen, some Eley, Lyalvale, Gamebore, Vinci, Venatum, SAGA, Cartuchos GB, Melior, Eley Hawk, Maxam, Victory.

Nobel Sport: Primer Size E
Nobel Sport, Clever Mirage, Clever Grand Italia, Clever T2.

Fiocchi: Primer Size E
Fiocchi, Ballistic Products Multi-Hull (w/flat gray 7mm base wad)

Baschieri & Pellagri (B&P): Primer Size E
B&P Proprietary hull using Gordon System cushioned plastic base wad.

Remington Shur-Shot (Australian distribution) http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=225338&p=2060404&hilit=+1+3%2F8+remington#p2060404

US Domestic Market (USDM)

Federal: Primer Size A

Gold Medal w/plastic basewad, 12 gauge 2.75" only

Top Gun* and Estate* w/wound paper base wad (Dark Maroon with silver color steel head); Top Gun 2.75", Estate 12 gauge 2.75" & 3.0"

Federal all plastic with .090 base compression formed hull. From factory buckshot, slug or steel loads. 12 gauge only, 2.75" & 3.0". Straight wall one-piece compression formed hull. Largest capacity 2.75" and 3" hull I know of.


Winchester: Primer Size A

Super-X (Cheddite) - The Cheddite Estate and Winchester are both bright red with a ribbed tube and a low, shiny gold steel head. All I have seen have a six fold crimp.

Super-X Steel Target - Red ribbed hull is the red color of the Universals, low silver colored steel head and has a low, tan plastic basewad unlike any other I have seen.

XPert Steel (Waterfowl loads) are proprietary hulls. Found with two different base-wad heights in 2.75”, 3.0” and 3.5”. Red basewad Tall, White basewad Short. No correlated load data.

**Winchester AA-HS & Universal, Super Dove, Super Speed all use separate tapered cup base wad, not considered a straight wall hull. All load with Winchester AAHS data. Primer Size A


Remington: SP Plastic, Type-6, black or yellow flat plastic base wad. Primer Size A

Remington Nitro Steel and all no-tox waterfowl loads except Sportsman Steel. Most Remington Buckshot and Slug hulls. Remington 10 gauge and 16 gauge hulls.


*Straight wall hulls but not true Reifenhauser due to paper base wad.
**Reifenhauser hulls but not true straight wall due to tapered cup base wad.

Tapered compression Formed (Remington) and Tapered Base Cup Reifenhauser (Winchester)

There is only one true "tapered" hull in the market, the Remington STS/Unibody hull described below. The other was the original Winchester AA-CF (Compression Formed), out of production for over 10 years but still found in large quantities, usually as fired hulls. These can be loaded with data for the original AACF or Remington STS/Unibody hulls.

Remington: Primer Size A

One piece compression formed plastic hull. Depending on brand may be shiny gold (Nitro27), emerald green (STS), dull green or black. 20 gauge always yellow, 28 gauge green, .410 red. 12 & 20 gauge may have six or eight fold crimp. High or low brass (STS/Nitro27) or steel (Gun Club/Sport Load) head.

All of these are interchangeable and load with the same data: STS, Nitro27, Gun Club, Sport Load, Heavy Dove, Nitro Express, Nitro Pheasant, Express Long Range, Sportsman Steel.


Winchester: Primer Size A

Winchester AA-HS: Three piece Reifenhauser with tapered base cup. Said to load with old Winchester AA Compression Formed (one piece) data but has less capacity. 12 gauge AA-HS hulls run slightly shorter than Universals. AA-HS found in glossy red and glossy dark grey with low brass heads. Heads are stamped "AA-HS"

Winchester Universal: Dull red, ribbed tube with same construction as AA-HS, low silver steel head. Used in Winchester Universal, Super Speed and most other promo non-AA loads. Not used in Winchester steel loads.


As I said, this covers a lot of ground but due to the fact that manufacturers are always introducing new brands or loads, or contracting production to foreign companies using their own components, this will always be a work in progress.

Feel free to add any verified new hulls or information so we can keep this resource current.

Regards,

Cerberus62


Great info!!

This should definitely be a sticky.mthanks for posting.