Which one would you choose?

[jaysouth]

I have just won an award for perfect attendance and picking up my room every day. The prize is a Weatherby Vanguard S2. I get to choose either .30-06 24" 1:10 or a .308 24" 1:12. This will be a dedicated cast boolit gun for lots of range time and a little bit of deer stand. Larger calibers in this line of rifles are belted magnums which do not interest me, plus I do not want to endure the trauma of locating dies, gas checks, and molds in this time of scarce shooting accessories. (There will be a .358 Win and 45-70 in my future, when things return to normal)

I have multiple die sets for both calibers and molds in 113 Lee, 165 RD and 180 Lee. I tumble lube, and have push through size dies in 309 and 311. I am also in the creeping and crawling stages of paper patching. I have buckshot's size dies in .303 and .305.

My deer hunting is from a stand in dense woods with 20-50 yard line of sight. I have been successful with the 165 RD at 1500 fps. This is instant kill for the small deer at the ranges I hunt and does not mess up any meat. There will be no 600 yard shots at elk, mastadons or T-Rexes. Just fun and friendly competition at the club range and a little bit of freezer stuffing.

Which caliber would you pick for dedicated cast boolit shooting in the range of molds on hand?

[RickinTN]

Hello there neighbor!
Difficult choice you have there. The '06 does work well for cast. If I could change one thing about mine it would be to change the twist to 1-12". The 308 would be a good cast bullet shooter as well with it's 1-12 twist, but I've not shot cast in mine.
Good Luck with your choice and congratulations,
Rick

[Wayne Smith]

Biggest difference, when discussing the same rifle, is neck length. The -06 is the winner there, and it can be important for cast boolits. I'd choose the -06 for that reason alone.

[Pat I.]

Go with the .308

[cbrick]

As I see it the biggest advantage of the 06 over the 308 is longer ranges. You said range shooting and tree stand in dense woods, kinda voids any advantage of long range.

My 308 with 1 in 12 twist is a great cast shooter, very cast friendly with boolits from 160 to 180 gr. Up to 2000 fps it needs only air cooled WW, needs nothing harder.

Seems like a no brainer to me . . . the 308.

Rick

[Shiloh]

The 1-12 twist would be nice. I have seen a few 308's strictly for cast that shot VERY well. Of course that would mean new dies and scrounging .308 brass.

SHiloh

[shredder]

Hello there neighbor!
Difficult choice you have there. The '06 does work well for cast. If I could change one thing about mine it would be to change the twist to 1-12".
Rick

I am curious why you wrote that. Can you share with me why would you prefer the slower twist for cast boolits? Do oyou shoot lighter boolits, say 180 and less primarily? The reason why I ask is that I have a 30/06 with a 12 twist. It is a custom build and I asked for that so that I could concentrate on the lighter jacketed bullet deer loads instead of the big 220 grainers. However, now that I have discovered the bright new world of shooting with cast boolits, I have noticed a tendency towards very long, very heavy for caliber slugs when looking for best accuracy. This has lead me to question my choice of twist. My rifle seems to shoot reasonably well with the Lyman 311332, a long spitzer weighing in at 193 grains. I have had my best accuracy results with (believe it or not) the lee 160 grain RN designed for the 30/30. I have also spent much more time with this mould and developing loads for it.

Just wondering if you have the same thoughts in mind? I would love to trade rifles for a couple of months so I could see what difference, if any, the twist would make on my loads. Perhaps the difference in the rifles themselves would negate the twist factor entirely? Enquiring minds would like to know....

[jdgabbard]

The 06 can do anything the 308 can do. I'd like to have that 1/12 in bore, but I'd just load heavier boolits in the 06.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

The one thing not mentioned yet, is case capacity. The smaller case of the 308 is more
suited to cast loading powder choices, but the neck length is a advantage on the '06.
Either would be a great choice, personally I'd go with the 308 just on the benchrest competition history
of the cartridge, and shorter action/ bolt stroke length.
A well chosen borerider design boolit for the rifle helps offset the longer case neck advantage of the '06

[Doc Highwall]

My vote is for the 308 Winchester.

[jaysouth]

The one thing not mentioned yet, is case capacity. The smaller case of the 308 is more
suited to cast loading powder choices, but the neck length is a advantage on the '06.
Either would be a great choice, personally I'd go with the 308 just on the benchrest competition history
of the cartridge, and shorter action/ bolt stroke length.


A well chosen borerider design boolit for the rifle helps offset the longer case neck advantage of the '06

Thanks, any recommendations on a mold/bullet with good bore rider design?

[captaint]

Being an admitted .308 fan, I would of course, go with the .308. There is one other benefit. You get a short action too. Nice. Certainly, either way - you win. Congrats. Mike

[1Shirt]

I would go w/308 because it is cheaper to load and shoot. IF however you plan on shooting 200-220 grain blts, go with 06.
1Shirt!

[aap2]

Either is a good choice, but as stated the shorted 308 case allows a shorter action and less unfilled space in the case with cast bullet loads. Personally I line shooting the 308 with cast bullets in a Remington VSSF (Varmit Stock,Stainless Fluted)..I'm new at shooting cast bullets, but the 308 seems to be a very easy caliber to work up cast boolit loads for.

[Larry Gibson]

+ another for the .308W with 24" barrel with 12" twist. It will be a much more friendly cast bullet shooter, especially with higher velocity hunting loads.

Larry Gibson

[Pat I.]

Thanks, any recommendations on a mold/bullet with good bore rider design?

RCBS 165 Sil or 180 RCBS SP. I like the sil bullet myself.

[Harter66]

The man w/1 rifle ??

For gross usablity the 06' gets my vote hands down . I think a rifle capable of 60-230gr loads to 22 varmint speeds is always the ticket.

Given our current state of things less is more so the 308 wins today,but for reasons i won't post other than your powder will go farther probably your lead too.

I've 3 moulds for 30cal. but i haven't gotten to the 308 yet.

[RickinTN]

I am curious why you wrote that. Can you share with me why would you prefer the slower twist for cast boolits? Do oyou shoot lighter boolits, say 180 and less primarily? The reason why I ask is that I have a 30/06 with a 12 twist. It is a custom build and I asked for that so that I could concentrate on the lighter jacketed bullet deer loads instead of the big 220 grainers. However, now that I have discovered the bright new world of shooting with cast boolits, I have noticed a tendency towards very long, very heavy for caliber slugs when looking for best accuracy. This has lead me to question my choice of twist. My rifle seems to shoot reasonably well with the Lyman 311332, a long spitzer weighing in at 193 grains. I have had my best accuracy results with (believe it or not) the lee 160 grain RN designed for the 30/30. I have also spent much more time with this mould and developing loads for it.

Just wondering if you have the same thoughts in mind? I would love to trade rifles for a couple of months so I could see what difference, if any, the twist would make on my loads. Perhaps the difference in the rifles themselves would negate the twist factor entirely? Enquiring minds would like to know....

I'm relatively new to cast bullets but not new to rifle reloading. From what I think I've learned so far there are several things that are different with cast vs jacketed bullets. In my mind the most important of these differences would start with proper fit of the bullet to your individual rifles throat/leade. Next would be pressure and hardness. From what I think I know these are interrelated and I'll even expand that to pressure/acceleration/hardness. The bullet is being accelerated not only forward, but radially into its rotation. To my thinking the 1-12 twist would be "gentler" on the bullet through this radial acceleration. I think the 12-twist is enough to support the heaviest bullet I'm likely to shoot in a 30 cal. I've read and studied to some degree the mention of a "RPM" threshold in other threads on this forum. The 12 twist would reach this threshold, whatever it may be for a given alloy, at a higher velocity.
I have and intend to work with a couple of 308's with 12-twist, but haven't had the opportunity.
I'm certainly not an expert on cast bullets but the above seems to make sense to me.
Take care,
Rick

[jaysouth]

Hmmmm................

17 replies, ten for .308 and 3 for the .30-06.



In Latin class, this is what we used to call 'vox populi'. I will be on the phone with Bud's tomorrow. I need to start rounding up .308 brass. I am a little short on it right now. I know a place where I can get once fired LC GI for under $20 per hundred. Also, I need to start looking into 'bore riding' bullet molds.

[geargnasher]

Yes, the smaller case capacity, slower twist (of your two options), longer barrel (of your two options) make the .308 a better option from one perspective.

However, the SAAMI-spec .30-'06 has a few advantages over the .308 and can do more with cast boolits. Depending on the performance expectations of the loader and their general philosophy of constructing ammunition, they may or may not realize this. The difference is the way the case taper stretches the burn pressure curve, and the shape and size of the throat entrance. One thing is you have the option to shoot heavier boolits, and the longer neck gives you more options, although the .308 neck really isn't much of a disadvantage with 180-grain and lighter.

Both will work fine, it just depends on what you know, what you learn, and how to leverage the advantages of each chambering. There are no flies on either one for cast.

Gear

[WHITETAIL]

My vote is a 308!:lol:
+1 with all that has been said.

[Jim]

I'd go with the .308 for a number of reasons, but the first thing I thought of was brass availability. There's a lot of LC 7.62 floatin' around out there.

[shredder]

Very interesting thread. There is so much to consider when shooting cast.