Confused *alot* about different makers of 9MM brass

[Ohio Rusty]

I was given about 600 or 700+ 9MM once fired empties -- range pickups. I don't own a 9MM, but I have the powder (Unique), primers and boolits (Lee 125 gr. RNFP) that can be put together to make them. I would just need to acquire a set of Lee 9MM dies and I would be good to go. Now I think I have an interest in loading 9MM's .... and I'll give them away to my Bro-in-low who shoots 9MM all the time. ....

I have been reading up on loading the 9MM and came across an article that said all 9MM brass is different and each manufacturer or brand name brass shell will hold different amounts of powder. I got to looking at the names stamped into the bottom of the brass cases and there is every maker in the world in that bag -- Fiocchi, R-P, WIN, Starline, S&W, Rem, W-W, and numerous others including some military brass.

So if each makers brass shell holds different quantity's of powder .... that leaves me confused. When I load 38's ... each .38 only holds so much powder, no matter who made the brass. So how does 9MM brass hold different quantities of powder ?? Will that lead to an under charged round or an overcharge or a dangerous compressed load ?? Which makers of brass do I keep that I know will be safe and hold a standard charge and which makers do I throw away ?? I need to stick with only one or two manufacturers of brass so I know each loaded round will come out exactly the same each time ...... Which brass manufacturer do you stick with ???

Ohio Rusty ><>

A silent patriot waiting for the first volley .................

[HangFireW8]

If you can stay away from max loads, you can throw away the AMercs and load up the rest.

[Bwana]

I suggest you buy a couple of good reloading manuals and read them.

[ReloaderFred]

I wouldn't throw any of it away, including the MagTech brass, which I've found to be very consistent and reliable. If you run across any A-Merk, definitely scrap that brass out, though, as it's totally worthless and very inconsistent.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Ohio Rusty]

There is definitely some A-Merc brass in that bag. I'll recycle that. I have 3 different reloading manuals (Speer and several different Lymans from different years), but none of them talk about the differences in brass, the quality of each manufacturer, or the differences in the amounts of powder each different manufactured brass shell will hold. heck ... not one of those manuals have load data for the Lee 125 grain RNFP boolit. I know there is load data for that boolit as tons of folks here load that boolit in 9MM's .....
Ohio Rusty ><>

A silent patriot waiting for the first volley ...........

[scattershot]

I reload 9mm, and I have never given a thought to different brands of brass. It all works fine. You may want to check and make sure that there are no Berdan primers in the bunch. It will ususally be some foreign headstamp, and it takes a different primer and has two flash holes. Military brass will have a crimped in primer, and you will have to ream the primer pocket before you reload it.

[GRUMPA]

You can take this with a grain of salt but I'll add my .02 to this.

I do load 9mm but more for the locals than myself, I mainly use them for swaging anyway and weigh each and every piece of 9mm brass and separate them in bags in 1gr increments. The internal capacity is different which is why I do this. I have them from 1 extreme to the next as far as weight goes and there's as much as an 11gr difference with WCC being the main culprit.

As already stated if you don't go to max power they should be fine for the target loads and cast boolits. I have for many years separated them by head stamp but others would more than likely say I have to much time on my hands or I'm anal about the things I do.

Amerc brass is garbage and if I didn't swage them into something else they would go into the scrap bucket so fast it isn't funny.

Just my .02

[Ohio Rusty]

Grumpa .... that is exactly the info I was seeking !!. Thanks for sharing this info. Holy moly ... 11 grain difference is alot !! Is the thickness of the brass and the base thickness that causes the internal capacity to be different?. I know there is quite a few WCC's in the bag as I saw them also. Next question if you don't mind .... are there two or three or four brand names do you would recommend to a person seek out and stick with for reloading??

I didn't even ask about trimming 9mm brass. I don't have a trimmer .... is that something to not worry about on brass that is once fired or has low reload cycles?

Ohio Rusty ><>

A silent patriot waiting for the first volley ..............

[scattershot]

FWIW, WCC indicatrs a military loading from the Winchester Cartridge Company. There will usually be a date, like 98, indicating the year of manufacture, and a cross in a circle means it's NATO spec ammo. Great brass.

[GRUMPA]

Don't get confused by what I previously wrote, I do get the 11gr deviation but that isn't limited to just the WCC cases. These are a mix and match of all the head stamps a person (or me) comes across when I get 9mm brass given to me in bags. WCC with a 2 digit date (AKA Mil brass with crimped in primers) is the heaviest I've come across so far and I've sorted by weight at least more than 3-4K and when time allows.

As far as the thickness is concerned I haven't gotten that far and more than likely wont, the only time I do something like that is when I dissect 223/5.56 cases when I convert them into the 300 Blackout cases that I sell on this site.

With that much of a variance in weight just in the 9mm alone it's safe to say that it's going to be thicker somewhere but where exactly I have no clue. When I make what I call custom loads for the locals I always sort by head stamp anyway, that to me is just getting things as close as possible for the more consistent end product.

The thing I personally come across when loading with unknown brass in any cal is the primer pocket gets enlarged and if I come across 1 that seems easier to seat the primer in than the others I quickly reject it and in the scrap barrel it goes.

Like I said prior, most of the 9mm brass I have I use for swaging anyway and if a person doesn't have an electronic scale and uses a beam scale it's going to be the most mind numbing experience a person can experience and would seem to be a form of mental torture than anything.

As far as what I use?... when I make 9mm for the locals, mainly what I have the most of in the same head stamp at the time unless it's a repeat local and they bring the brass back so it's easy for me to tell what to use, most are very consistent till you get the foreign brass and that's hit and miss and I only use them for swaging anyway.

Trimming....I don't think I ever trimmed a piece of 9mm brass, same goes for the 45ACP brass.

Hope this helps.....if not just ask.

[cylinderman]

Case length is most important to sort by to keep consistant crimp on case. I load all 9mm cases they are tough and last almost forever. If you are wanting to load 9mm you need to have access to something chambered in it to work up a load. 9mm is very challenging to handload and takes some fine tuning to develop an accurate round.

[Ohio Rusty]

It looks like it will be a while until I can do this anyway ..... Lee dies are now going for as high as $125.00 !!!!! That will give me a few months to get all the brass sorted by heastamp, get them run thru the tumler to clean them, etc. Maybe by fall dies will be back to $40 for the deluxe set before all this panic for anything reloading swept over the loading/shooting community. By Then I can get my hands on a 9MM pistol to borrow ....
Ohio Rusty ><>

A silent patriot waiting for the first volley .............

[HangFireW8]

I wouldn't throw any of it away, including the MagTech brass, which I've found to be very consistent and reliable. If you run across any A-Merk, definitely scrap that brass out, though, as it's totally worthless and very inconsistent.
Fred

You are correct, Fred, I meant AMerc.

[farmallcrew]

If you stick with a load right around the middle you won't have to worry about cases holding different amounts of powder. I don't remember the recipe off hand for 9mm because my dad reloads that for me(he has progressive press). I do all the other reloading on my single stage.

I shoot all types of 9mm brass, they all function fine. Every now and then a Blazer will give my dad fits. So I headstamped all the brass so we can see if others give trouble.

[MT Gianni]

I get better groups by sorted brass in 9mm at least by mfg and have wanted to see if trim length makes a huge difference.

[downwind]

I have had problems with a-merc .45's (they taper internally too fast)

But what specifically are the problems with a-merc 9mm?
I have about 500 once fired 9's and was going to give them a try but keep them separated from others.

Unfortunately I'm a stubborn Irishman and when someone says it can't be done I see it as a challenge. (Not stupid stubborn, just an info junky and always want to know WHY?)

Talk me out of it, please.

THANKS
DOWNWIND

[ReloaderFred]

The general problem with Amerc brass is the quality, or lack thereof, of the brass used to make the cases, and oversized primer pockets. There was an evolution in their brass making process, and some of the earliest brass looks like it was made by kindergartners, but the later brass actually looks like it was made by an ammunition manufacturer. Some of it didn't have extraction grooves, especially in .45 acp, and primers fell out. I knew one guy who was determined to use it, and actually used Super Glue to keep the primers in place on the .45 acp brass.

The flash holes are often way off center, which causes problems with decapping pins. The case walls were thicker on one side. Length of cases was all over the map. The brass was brittle. The original bullets weren't all the same diameter. The one time I fired factory Amerc ammunition, you could feel the difference in powder charge from one round to the next.

Other than that, it's ok...........

Hope this helps.

Fred

[smkummer]

Like others have stated, since you are reloading lead bullets, most start with a starting load and work up until the gun functions 100%, then stop so as to lessen the effects of leading if it is present. If you have Lee's 125 RNFP, it was a bullet intended for 38 special cowboy loads, and it may work fine in 9mm if sized down to .356. The nose is somewhat blunt for semiautos and may cause feed issues but every gun is different on what it will feed. Generally any load intended for 125 jacketed bullets is safe for 125 grain lead bullets. What you will find with different brands of 9mm cases is internal capacity and this can effect pressure somewhat but should be a moot point if you keep your loads under max. Also different relaoding manuals and powder manufactures will publish different results and max. loads because of using different cases, primers and bullets. This is all part of reloading and not intended to sound complicated. You will do fine.

[Case Stuffer]

Nine mm cases do vary in capacity due to wall thickness differences amount of material in the base / web area but IMO the depth the boolit is seated can very quickly makes more of a difference. Some boolits have a very short section which goes into the case and some have a much longer in case section.

Reloading for plinking and casual shooting I use mixed brass at moderate levels and do not worry about great accuracy. My nine has a 3" barrel and practice / maintaine proficiency loads are used at 30 feet and under and most at less than 15 feet.

If I were loading forgreater accuarcy then things would be different. Some of hose who load for ultra precession rifle loads not only sort brass by head stamp but also by weight, case volume( measured by filling with water ) neck size only,trim all cases to exact same lengths,ream the inside of case necks, check each loaded round for bullet run out etc.. Sometimes it pays to remeber the intended purpose of the firearm and its' ammo.

One thing that can have a major effect on not only 9 mm but any relaod using cast boolits is the sized to dementio compared to the slugged bore dia.. Most nines really need a .357 to .358 dia. cast bullet. This often means that a .38 cal. expander needs to be used in place of a 9 mm expander as most of thesede are really for jacketed bullets.

My carry nine is a SA XD Sub Compact. Carry loads are Speer Gold Dot 115 gr. JHP +P+ officialy marked / specified for Law Enforcement only and loaded to 40,000 CUP ,22% higher than ANSI standards.

For what its' worth my practice loads using a 135 gr. hard cast semi wad cutter over 5.7 gr. of HS-6 has much greater penetration but felt recoil is much milder. Simple fact is the Speer +P+ loads are just not pleasent to my 68 year old hands and joints.

IMO 9mm ,.45ACP, .38 super and all other straight wall cases loaded for a semi auto should be taper crimped only and only to extent to reduce the case mouth a couple or three thousands of an ince below the max. listed for the round. Be advised that the combo of larger dia. booluits, mininum crimping and firearms with tight chambers can lead to chambering issues.

[MtGun44]

Just avoid max loads, and if you taper crimp as a separate operation, which you should,
case length is perhaps not totally irrelevant, but nearly so.

You should not expect match accy with mixed brass, but it should be fine for casual shooting,
probably get 2-3" at 25 yds with no problems.

Bill

[MT Gianni]

ISo if each makers brass shell holds different quantity's of powder .... that leaves me confused. When I load 38's ... each .38 only holds so much powder, no matter who made the brass. So how does 9MM brass hold different quantities of powder ?? Will that lead to an under charged round or an overcharge or a dangerous compressed load ?? Which makers of brass do I keep that I know will be safe and hold a standard charge and which makers do I throw away ?? I need to stick with only one or two manufacturers of brass so I know each loaded round will come out exactly the same each time ...... Which brass manufacturer do you stick with ???

Ohio Rusty ><>

A silent patriot waiting for the first volley .................

A check of 38 brass might find that not all the cases hold the same amount either. The difference is the length of the two cases, whether the powder is compressed and the pressures if the two cartridges.