.44 Spl Wheel Gun

[sundog]

Any suggestions?

[Marine Sgt 2111]

I have an old model 24 S&W with a 6" barrel and a glass smooth action. She's my "Special" gal......:drinks:

[MT Gianni]

I have an older Charter arms bulldog that fills the need for me. 3" bbl packs easily and is controlable with 250 gr boolits and 750fps [not comfortable but controlable]. Practice loads are 215 gr @ 700fps. I sold a 624 6 1/2" S&W because my Redhawk did more was lighter and more accurate. N frame purists may consider me a fool but it's done. If I ever saw a 5 shot L-frame again I would not just be tempted I would pull out the plastic right there even if i only pay cash for guns. I don't forsee that as they are rare. I am not fond of the titanium specials with 2" bbls as in carry a lot shoot avery little. I have no experience with the new Charter's, older Rossi or Taurus guns. For a revolver fan I like the options this gives me better than a 3" officers model 1911 but recognize that it isn't a major difference other than picking up the brass in the woods. Gianni.

[targetshootr]

I like Ruger 44 spl (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b233/targetshootr/IM004887.jpg) and Smith 44 spl (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b233/targetshootr/IM004662.jpg) too.

[RayinNH]

targetshootr, that's a right purdy Ruger :-D...Ray

[Poohgyrr]

Actually, that Ruger does look good.. :drinks:

I still like any S&W for a wheelgun; here is my favorite pair of 44 Specials:


http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6958/emfsaw003th3.jpg

[Dale53]

When it comes to .44 Specials, with me they ARE special:-D .

My first was (and still is) a Model 24 6.5". It is a dandy. Elmer recommended it, you know[smilie=1:.

Then I bought a 4" 624 and a 6.5" 624. Either will do to "Ride the river". I also have a Cimarron in .44 Special. It shoots VERY well but needs to have the sights regulated soon as I get around to it...

Since all of mine are full size, I use the Skeeter load exclusively (Lyman 429421 bullet ahead of 7.5 Unique with whatever primer is plentiful. This is a real revolver load and is comfortable in full size revolvers and extremely accurate (under an inch at 25 yards).

Dale53

[danski26]

Targetshootr.....What are the details on that ruger? I have a Blackhawk semi-basket case that I am thinking of converting to 44spl. Did you convert that one?

[9.3X62AL]

The 624 x 6.5" (it IS 6-1/2", NOT 6") has spent most of its life since I got it emptying out #429421's atop Skeeter's Load (7.5 grains of Unique). 15.0 grains of 2400 moves those Lymans along right smartly, too. It is ONE NICE ROLLER. This latter load might be a bit much for the SAA repros and originals, but Skeeter's Load should be just fine--it gets about 950 FPS in the Smith.

[leftiye]

Wasn't Elmer's favorite load his 240 grainer atop 18.0 grs. of 2400? Nasty, nasty! Obviouly that would be the OLD 2400!

[Swagerman]

My 2nd model S&W was once a British contract gun made in .455, now its a .44 special with five inch barrel.

The 3rd model S&W is all original, and as good as the day it was made...very accurate.

I would have more .44 specials, but so would a lot of other guys who want them.

Jim

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/100_0124croppedandtouchedup-textsiz.jpg

[Dale53]

Just a precautionary note: Elmer's load quoted above was worked up in Balloon head cases. They have more case capacity than modern brass and the pressure is excessive with new cases.

The NRA, back when they were doing real reloading research and information, determined that 16.5 of OLD 2400 was equivalent in new cases (25,000 PSI).

I loaded up a few of those several years ago just to chronograph them and prove to myself that they were indeed as reported (they were[smilie=1:). I see no need to beat up on my 24 and 624's when I have perfectly good .44 magnums when I need real power. That is when I settled on Skeeter's load for regular use. It is a dandy general purpose SERIOUS load and should even take a deer nicely if needed. I generally run a thousand at a time through my Dillon 550B.

Dale53

[Kraschenbirn]

Mine's one of the 3" 24-3s with a K-frame size grip S&W made for Lew Horton in the early 80s. Normal load is around 9 grains of AA #5 under a 240 gr Keith SWC.

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

Dale--

I came to the same conclusion that you did on the 15.0 x 2400 loads in the 624--I have a Redhawk for that sort of thing. I assembled and fired 50 of them, and the idea won't likely get re-visited. Skeeter's Load is a viable mid-point between factory intensities that mimic the 44 Russian and the Keith loads that wear on both platform and shooter. Considering that the most used deer rifle in my collection used a 200 grain 44 caliber round flat nose at 1100 FPS to grass deer in 3 figures, a 250 grain SWC at 950 FPS should at least equal that capability if I do my part.

I've done the "Skeeter's Load" bit with 357 and 41 Magnum, too. 160 and 210 grain SWC's at 950 FPS can do just about everything I need from a revolver, with all-day recoil levels. 44 Magnum is another story--I have a TON of ammo loaded in this caliber, most of it the 240 JHP or JSP going 1350-1450 FPS. Once that inventory gets emptied out, 90% of the brass I retain will get a Skeeter's Load worked up and established, and the remaining 10% will get Elmer's Load--enough 2400 to enable 1200 FPS with #429421.

[nicholst55]

+1 for Skeeter's load. It's incredibly comfortable to shoot through a full size .44 Spl - in my case a 6.5" M24 S&W. The only thing preventing me from owning additional .44 Special wheelguns is... money!

[NVcurmudgeon]

Sadly, a Special has never crossed my path, so I make do with a .44 Magnum 629 and a Skeeter-like load of 7.0 Green Dot (950 fps in 8 3/8".) Long ago I decided that I had enjoyed about all the Elmer Keith loads I could stand in an old Blackhawk.

[targetshootr]

What are the details on that ruger?
It was done by Clements Custom Guns. I had it for sale on the Ruger forum a couple of weeks ago for $950 but when I shot it the other day and it made me glad no one took it off my hands. He also did a 5 1/2" 44 spl (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b233/targetshootr/IM004746.jpg) just about a month ago and the long barrel 44 spl (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b233/targetshootr/Im002047.jpg) was by Andy Horvath. Clements also did one like Keiths # 5 (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b233/targetshootr/Im002225.jpg).

[targetshootr]

The last time I used 2400 with a 250K in 44 spl I only used 13 gr and it had more wallop than I care for. I like just enough to get em out the barrel and on the paper.

[McLintock]

I'm with Targetshootr on using Old Model Ruger Blackhawks as a base for a .44 Special. Here's my "long range" one with 7 !/2" barrel, that I converted myself, using a Super Blackhawk barrel and the Dave Manson cylinder reaming setup.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1620/1303399/7384995/187485396.jpg
And here's a set of Blackhawks converted both to .44 Special and Colt type top straps for Cowboy Action Shooting. One was originally converted to .44 Special by Minature Machine of Deming, New Mexico, who did some of Skeeter Skelton's conversions way back when. I had this one done in 1976 or so. The other one and the Colt top strap conversions were done by Wes Flowers of Cowboy Action and fast draw gunsmithing fame, in 2002.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1620/1303399/7384995/30035890.jpg
I'm looking for another "project" Blackhawk right now to do one like the first, but with 4 5/8's barrel; but they're hard to find for a decent price. Sure like the .44 Special.
McLintock

[9.3X62AL]

MANY THANKS to both Targetshootr and McClintock for sharing those photos. Just beautiful examples!

NVC--the Keith Loads for the Redhawk shouldn't be too bad. The difference between 250 cast @ 1200 and 240 j-words @ 1450 is like night and day--the former is almost enjoyable, the latter in any number becomes "endurable" in short order.

Call me a sissy-la-la, I just don't need my thumb back around my elbow crook anymore. That was cool to do at age 30, but 22 years of that stuff instills some sense sooner or later. No offense meant to those who enjoy the 454/460/475/500 genre, it's just not for me now.

[targetshootr]

The large Rugers also make good guns for converting. This beater 41 mag will be coming back as a 45 done Vaquero style (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b233/targetshootr/IM004380.jpg).

[Shuz]

Corky--What is your "use" for this gun? Light carry? Minimum recoil? Target accuracy?--Shuz

[Bret4207]

[QUOTE=Kraschenbirn;215995]Mine's one of the 3" 24-3s with a K-frame size grip S&W made for Lew Horton in the early 80s. Normal load is around 9 grains of AA #5 under a 240 gr Keith SWC.

Bill[/QUOTE


Got one just like it. What a great gun! Also a Charter BD. Another great "carry a lot, shoot a little" gun. I ran up a bunch of Elmer type loads using 2400 and his 429421. Much too much fun for the BD, this I knew, so the S+W got the 50 I loaded. I really didn't think it was all that bad. Out of the Rossi Puma they were near equal 44 mag full house loads recoil-wise. The rocks I shot were dead right there though....:mrgreen:

[sundog]

Shuz, something a little less robust than the maggie, for sure. Plinking and maybe some carry. The Bulldog is kinda interesting.

I've wanting to get back to cowboy shooting, so if I really get into the .44 Spl, maybe a pair of of cowboy guns later. I got a pair of 44 mag (Bisley Vaquero), but I think I might like something different,... maybe.

Just sumptin special about 44 Spl.

[9.3X62AL]

Just sumptin special about 44 Spl.

That nails it, right there.

[Shuz]

Corky--FWIW, years ago I made my life real simple by shooting only .44mag cases, but Of course all the guns are so chambered. I have greatly downloaded the .44 mag case, so that I can get .44 Special type loads if that's what I want. For me, that's a heckuva lot easier than trying to utilize .44 Special brass for reduced loads. Of couse if the gun you want is the Bulldog you mentioned, you gotta go with the .44 Special cases. If I had your Vaquero's, I'd just load .44 mag cases with 6 to 7g of Green Dot and be real happy.--Shuz

[AnthonyB]

Corky, I'm collecting pennies for a Freedom Arms 97 in 44 Special. Expensive, but I'll only buy it once... Tony

[sundog]

Awwww, fellers....

Dang it all anyway.... I'd almost rather be kickin' rocks out in the middle of the county road than tryin' to figger this out.

Shuz, what you said about the 44 Mag cases loaded down. That's all that goes in my nice set of Ruger Bisleys. They work gooooooood! With GD! Like we've talked about so many times. Real good.

But sometimes a man has a hankerin'.

Freedom Arms, Tony? I got some jingle - in a couple coffee cans. How much? Do they do it 'right'? Buy it once is what I'm thinkin'. It's gotta be right.

[Dutch4122]

You guys are killin' me with all this talk about .44 Special wheelguns. Last night and this morning I found myself wandering around the gun auction sites looking at the new S&W M-21's in blued, case-hardened, and nickle finish.

AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!! :)

[Poohgyrr]

Right, and don't forget the new blued 3"ers that Horten or RSR or someone had made this year too.

[smilie=1:

[Swagerman]

Dutch, hope you can find one of these...:mrgreen:

3rd model .44 special.

Jim

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/P6190014.jpg

[45 2.1]

Try to find a 4" S&W M624 if you can. Its about the sweetest 4 Special out there.

[Calamity Jake]

Try to find a 4" S&W M624 if you can. Its about the sweetest 4 Special out there.

I got 4" M24 and I love it!!!!

[S.R.Custom]

Mine's one of the 3" 24-3s with a K-frame size grip S&W made for Lew Horton in the early 80s. Normal load is around 9 grains of AA #5 under a 240 gr Keith SWC.

Bill
Got one just like it. What a great gun! Also a Charter BD. Another great "carry a lot, shoot a little" gun. I ran up a bunch of Elmer type loads using 2400 and his 429421. Much too much fun for the BD, this I knew, so the S+W got the 50 I loaded. I really didn't think it was all that bad. Out of the Rossi Puma they were near equal 44 mag full house loads recoil-wise. The rocks I shot were dead right there though....:mrgreen:

I like my Horton 3" 24-3 too. Mine likes the RCBS 250 gr SWC over 8.5 grs of Herco.

But mine's a bit different from y'all's. It sports the N-frame round-butt , not the K frame round-butt... [smilie=1:

[Swagerman]

GLL, nice bunch of S&W revolvers you've got there. You know you're over the legal limit owning that many. :-D

I've got this sick yen to own a Taurus in .44 special, maybe a 3 or 4 inch barrel job, and it can be a five shooter or six.

Got one of the Tauris in .45 Colt Tracker and its a keeper, shoots real accurate.

Heck, I'd even look twice at a .44 Rossi in simular configuration.

Jim

[txpete]

my smith mountain gun gets its fair share of 44 spl.:-D .
it sure likes the lee 208 gr wc.
pete

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/txpete/2007_0906440001.jpg

[sundog]

Ooooo, Pete. Nice.

I've had good results with the Lee 200 RF with both Spl and Mag cases.

[Dale53]

Al;
For a long time, I loaded 23.0 grs of H110 behind a 250 Keith for practice and loaded up 24.0 grs of H110 behind the Keith for deer. One fall, I ran out of time and had no "hunting loads" loaded up. I just took the 23.0 gr load with me (1200 fps vs 1300 fps with .24.0 in my 8 3/8" barreled S&W Model 29). You know something, the deer never knew the difference.

After that, I just hunted with the "practice" load. My last deer was taken with the Lee C430-310 GC as a "test". The 310 gr at 1200 fps put a ten pointer on the ground at impact (however, most anything would as I broke his neck at 25 yards). Deer are handled nicely with a 250 Keith at 1200 fps (just what Elmer had discovered with the heavily loaded .44 Special). Any more is just over kill.

However, if I were in Big Bear country, I would bet my goodies on the Lee C430-310 GC.

Al,
It seems that you and I have independently come to the same conclusions on a variety of things:mrgreen:

Dale53

[9.3X62AL]

That's for sure, Dale. Might have something to do with age or life experience--ya think?

[Char-Gar]

Over the past 45 years I have had about eight sixguns in 44 Special and my experience and opinions with them have lead me to conclusion that are out of the norm.

I have never found the 44 Special round to offer any advantage over the 44 Magnum. Accuracy with light loads in the magnum case is fully equal that which can be obtained in a Special case in a Special sixgun. Plus in the magnum sixgun you still have the option for heavy loads which would bust a 44 Special sixgun.

I have sold all of my Colt and Smith and Wessons 44 Specials down river, save one. I still have a 1931 vintage Smith 2nd. Model Hand Ejector. This pistol went over the bench at Micro Sight some years back and has a full set of Micro front and rear sights, a target hammer and tigger also from Micro. It is a very sweet sixgun and I just can't bear the thought of not owning at least one 44 Special.

A fellow needs at least one, so he can sit around the fire and have something to say when the boys start to brag on the 44 Special. ....But, Elmer and Skeeter not withstanding, I can see no reason to own one, when there are so many great 44 Mag. around.

In the 44 Magnum, I own a 6" SMith 29.2, a 5" Smith 629 Classic and a 7.5" Ruger OM SBH. Any of them will beat any 44 Special I have ever owned any way you want to make the comparison.

[targetshootr]

One of my best shooters is a 28 converted to 44 spl (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b233/targetshootr/Im001062.jpg). There's something about that caliber that's hard to beat.

[Poohgyrr]

There are some nice wheelguns here, congrats on all of them. :drinks:

And I'll second the 3" to 4"ers as favorites....

[9.3X62AL]

+1 to Chargar's text about the 44 Magnum being every bit as good as the 44 Special, with the option of up-loading to Magnum intensities.

I'm currently engaged in emptying out (through the Redhawk's muzzle) a LOT of 44 Magnum high-end loads, to create brass for the loads I really prefer--#429421 at about 950-1000 FPS. As this process of unloading goes on, I get reminded that I'm not fond of recoil and blast like I was 20-25 years ago. Some of the loads are 8-10 years old, which sort of "date-stamps" the heavy loads' fall from favor. Many of these are jacketed-bullet assemblies at 1400 FPS or so, and I won't likely put together many more of those. #429421 as above, and #429244 at 1300 FPS--90%/10% ratio in terms of numbers.

[Dale53]

Chargar;
Even you (who profess to not "need" a .44 special:roll: ) have one - SEE:-D :-D

Up until the .44 AMagnum Mountain Gun came into being, the .44 Specials carried a lot better for general field use (they were considerably lighter). Because of their lighter weight and different balance (with appropriate loads) they were faster in the hand.

I, too, am a great admirer of the .44 magnums (mine are sulking right now because I have been spending so much time with the S&W 625-8 .45 ACP) and think they are some of the greatest hunting revolvers EVER!

All of that said, my .44 Specials with the Skeeter load are, u-m-m-m-m, SPECIAL!:-D :-D
Dale53

P.S. Chargar, you do make some valid points...rdm

[9.3X62AL]

My thrust was to say that if a poor, benighted revolver enthusiast is so down on his or her luck as to not have a nice Colt or S&W 44 Special--he or she isn't totally bereft of options in 44 caliber by slumming with a Magnum. Both cartridges are superb calibers.

I just don't have a lot of need for Magnum ballistics, so I load my revos down most of the time. There was a period during my misspent youth where thunder. lightning, and gratuitous recoil had a cherished place in my heart, so the 44 Magnum was a "given" at that time. Those 4" M-29's can do a great job of lighting up adjacent hillsides at dusk, for sure. WW-296 = fireworks and light show. Now, I like the weight of the Redhawk and how well it soaks up recoil from the 240's @ 1000 FPS. Far as that goes, it soaks up recoil a whole lot better than the 29 with the rip-snorter J-word rounds, too.

But they just don't make me smile any more. For a brief interlude, I owned a Colt Anaconda x 6". Its D/A trigger was abysmal, but S/A wasn't bad--and that thing could SHOOT. It handled heavy loads well, but once the Redhawk showed up--the Colt went on the block. I couldn't abide that trigger--and as rough as the Redhawk trigger was, it was light-years better than the Anaconda. The Ruger lockworks improve with age--the Anaconda and Trooper Mk III/V actions degrade with usage. What total disappointment, after a lifetime spent with the V-spring actions.

I have balked and crawfished on a couple of pretty decent New Service examples in 45 Colt in the recent past. If one of these in similar condition were to cross my path in 44 Special--I might be on that like cheese on a sirloin burger, if the price wasn't totally decadent.

I'm an addict. My name is Allen, and I cannot stop buying V-spring Colts and N-frame Smiths.

[Bear4570]

I love the old special. Most of mine gets the old skeeter load of 7.5 Unique under a Keith Bullet or 16.5 of 2400 under a 245 gr Ray Thompson gas checked bullet.

Here are a few of my favorites

My twin Smith 696 no dash

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/Bear41mag/doc2013.jpg

Smith 24-3

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/Bear41mag/doc2006.jpg

I have an old Smith 29-2 "S" prefix 4"that gets fed mostly these two .44 special loads.

Looking for a beater of a Ruger old model 3 screw 357 to convert to .44 special at the present.

[JMax]

Any suggestions?

I love my S&W Thunder Ranch using 4.4 gr WW231 and and 240 gr Keith style cast bullet. Fun to shoot, little residue under the extractor minimizing binding and of course accuracy. I did have to file the front sight to get it on target but it was a small adjustment.

[whisler]

Gentlemen: a little late to this party, but will throw in my comments. I was gifted a .44 Spec. Taurus 5 shooter. Probably wouldn't have bought one but now that I have this one, I must admit I like it. It shoots extremely well, and handles 8 gr. of Unique with no complaints. Very accurate and fun to shoot with 4.8 gr. BE under a wadcutter.

[testhop]

charter arms is bring back the 44 bulldog it may be what you are looking for

[Hardcast]

<snip> I sold a 624 6 1/2" S&W because my Redhawk did more was lighter and more accurate.<snip>


Please tell me how your Redhawk is lighter than a 6 1/2" 624.


Hardcast

[MtGun44]

Poohgyrr,

Please tell us about the Win92 short rifle. I have not seen this
configuration before and it is intriguing. All the 92 carbines I have
seen were carbines -- 2 barrel bands to screw up the accuracy. Yours
has the rifle type forend cap and dovetailed mag tube support, which
(theoretically) should be more accurate.

Pray tell.

Bill

[floodgate]

Those "Short Rifles" (defined by the use of a nose cap rather than a forward band enclosing both barrel and magazine, regardless of barrel length) are intriguing. Many years ago an "old timer" friend showed me an original '94 Deluxe Short Rifle in .25-35, with an 18" barrel, pistol grip and all the trimmings. Handsome little piece!

floodgate

[Poohgyrr]

Poohgyrr, Please tell us about the Win92 short rifle. Bill

That's probably my favoritist rifle, thanks for asking! :-D

The idea came from a picture on Leverguns of a similar looking 16" octagon M94 30-30, made in 1955 if my memory is right. I like that 30-30 a lot. Age has me forgetting whose Winchester that is, but he is a lucky bum. :drinks:

So, Steve Young (the Texas Lever smith off of the Leverguns forum) took one of his 20" short rifle 44-40's from EMF and made it into my 16" .44 Special. Steve cut the barrel to 16" and re-chambered it to .44 Special, shortened the forearm to match, did his awesome standard tune-up, replaced the plastic end cap on the magazine spring, supplied the tang sight (Marbles), and rubbed a couple coats of tru oil into the wood. The front brass bead sight has been working well for me & I like it a lot; same for the rear buckhorn. These sights are standard for EMF brand, and better than the other M92 clone sights out there.

The EMF short rifles have that mag tube attachment, and the crescent buttplate; which I wanted, along with the CCH finish.

As far as the rechambering, the .44 Special should give about the same results as a 44-40, and it teams up well with my S&W. Also, I don't have any reloading supplies at all for the 44-40, but have lots of and really like the .44 Special. If I want to load .44 Magnums, I'll use a different gun.

So far, this M92 shoots every factory load, and "standard" handloads, better than I do. But one handload (9.5 gr Unique/240 LSWC - store bought Western Nevada's) that the S&W likes, keyholes out of the M92.

Plans are to use these .44 Specials, and Catshooter Keith mold boolits, to get a deer at a friend's cabin, while sitting on his back porch drinking coffee. There is a little clearing about 75 yards off and they use a trail right through it. Even if this doesn't work, the coffee is hot, the view great, the sky clear, and the air crisp. Just right for a .44 Special.

One of our brothers (this forum or Leverguns??) from down under has a real Winchester M92, re-chambered in .44 Special. He is another one of those lucky bums! :drinks:

This M92 wasn't exactly cheap, but it did cost less than several other guns out there - including the Colt SAA's, several of the standard 1911/45s, and many of the real original Winchester Levers. So, I sold some things and did some overtime and this stubby short rifle is sweet. Steve is highly recommended for his work, and these EMFs are much, much better than I used to think.

http://www.stevesgunz.com/

http://leverguns.sixgunner.com/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=2

[MtGun44]

Thanks for the report. Beautiful short rifle, and neat caliber.
The stiffer octagon bbl and 'proper' magtube and handguard
mount seem to be good for accuracy.

My Browning 92 carbine in .44mag shoots the 429421 well over
10 unique, but won't feed them from the mag. I have purchased
some SPL cases and will trying that load or your 9.5 (to correct for
the slight loss of case volume) unique with the short cases so I
can use my much loved 429421.

Good luck on the deer. If my warthog experience is any guide you'll
never recover a bullet! :-D

Bill