loaded dia. vs chamber dia. HMM

[charger 1]

Doin this 50 ak I've been sent the reamer specs and at mouth it will be aprox .008 bigger in dia than loaded cartridge. A non existant throat, .047" longer than cartridge. Do I see a little to much tipping here?

Studying the reamer drawing I notice that after the mini throat (.050 long) it does a 1.5 degree taper for .34". I gotta think that even with .005-.006 neck dia diff this will help, along with the fact as somebody mentioned .512 does have significant contact

[Bass Ackward]

Doin this 50 ak I've been sent the reamer specs and at mouth it will be aprox .008 bigger in dia than loaded cartridge. A non existant throat, .047" longer than cartridge. Do I see a little to much tipping here?


Charger,

Flatly, I'd say so. I have never tipped for a reamer in my life, they should be getting paid pretty well. :grin:

Oh, sorry, coffee kicked in. It all depends on how you want to shoot it and what you want out of the rifle. People that tend to have problem with "case" dimensions are people under loading the cartridge. And that is only .004 a side, so if you are running reasonable cartridge pressure with a normal anneal, you should be fine. In fact, that can be filled with a crimp. Remember, this is a lever so you can't go too tight or you won't have the camming action to close.

Throats are another matter. Throats can be extended for support and increased case capacity. you ought to know enough by now to figure out what you want there. I suppose what is most important to me today is that the angle on the end of the rifling. And this changes based on the case design and purpose. I want the least amount of angle so that the bullet can overcome inertia and move out.

[charger 1]

Charger,

Flatly, I'd say so. I have never tipped for a reamer in my life, they should be getting paid pretty well.

I got the coffee on Bass. If you leave now you should be here in about 13 hrs. Thats a bit of a hike I know, but I think its worth it to get a good strong cup a joe into ya:coffee: :roll:

[45 2.1]

Way too much tolerence!!!!!! 0.002" to 0.003" would be more than enough.

[charger 1]

Way too much tolerence!!!!!! 0.002" to 0.003" would be more than enough.

agreed but you see fellas on leverguns shootin nickel groups with the combo and boolits

[leftiye]

Charger,
Since you can't cut any metal BACK ON to the chamber, I guess you're stuck with that oversize chamber neck. FWIW, My 45-70 is set up the same way. .008" neck clearance, no freebore, no leade. All we can do is in the freebore/leade area. As B.A. said a nice long leade with something between 2 and 5 degrees included angle. In your lever, you have to feed, so you can't set the boolits out much. So freebore probably isn't much of an option. I totally freaked when I cast the chamber in my 45-70, and I do agree that there's virtually nothing to hold the boolit oriented straight on in the bore. But it's been that way (In the case of the 45-70) since 1873? And some of these shoot very well, as you said.

[felix]

Yeah, the larger the bore, the same angle of error causes no accuracy problems when compared to the amount of recoil control needed. The longer the boolit for the bore, the more insignificant the error as well. 400-500 grainers in a 45 is a comparatively very long boolit. Now try that "neck-land" error in a 22 and see what happens. Yes, indeed, I like a neck clearance of only 0.001 max in all guns that I shoot, but these guns I shoot are not used in hunting conditions where sufficient slop will allow for much faster reloading action. It all boils down to how much accuracy you need for the targeting conditions. ... felix

[Bass Ackward]

agreed but you see fellas on leverguns shootin nickel groups with the combo and boolits


Excited again huh? Take deep breaths. In .............. out, in ............. out.

Nickel size with a 50 is one hole. Success like that is hard to argue with as long as you are seeing .... and just not reading.

One thing you learn from frequenting here. Everything "can be" made to work. Another thing is to take things with a grain of salt.

While a good chamber and throat set-up is important to me, you need a good barrel and everything that entails to shoot nickel size groups with anything. And to shoot them consistently, nothing inhibiting it common to levers and thin barrels like heat distribution issues with bands, pressure points, and such. You get the picture.

If you get too tight on neck specs, simple things like trimming brass can thicken brass enough to give you problems. Want to increase your bullet diameter in the future as your throat cleans up and wears, and now your turning necks. How thick is this brass anyway? It can be hard to get dies to work sometimes without special ones. Didn't you buy Lee's? Banking on a lot there too. And cleaning a chamber on a lever can be inconvenient if you don't want to disturb the bore condition.

So you have a lot to think about in how important that last inch is to what you want to do with it. To me a hunting rifle that shoots all in the same hole is useless. Then I have to aim somewhere else for the next bullet to cut something but air. :grin:

[felix]

Right on, John. ... felix

[charger 1]

Well I ordered som starline today which is thicker than win tin, but what isnt so we can get that .008 down to a .005. Not great but better

[BABore]

I've got a factory 450 Marlin Levergun that has similar dimensions, along with a big throat. It will shoot sub-inch on the rare occasion, but I tend to get a spoiler or two every group that makes it a 1 1/4 to 1 1/2" gun. My bore is 0.4592. My case/chamber will only handle 0.4623" bullets. My leade/throat would like a 0.465+ bullet. I've tried cast bullets from 350 to 550 grs, PB & GC, bore ride and full ogival nose, hard and soft, fast and slow, you name the powder and I've tried it. It's hard to make a bullet go straight down the bore when you allow some yaw on the back end. If your stuck with what you got, your going to have to find the correct powder and alloy to allow the max case sized bullet to bump up uniformily into the throat. If'in you find the right combination, let me know cause I'm still looking. Jacketed bullets will do better cause of their increased hardness.

You want it much tighter than you got. Throw in a ham, and pull out the bone.:-D

[charger 1]

I've got a factory 450 Marlin Levergun that has similar dimensions, along with a big throat. It will shoot sub-inch on the rare occasion, but I tend to get a spoiler or two every group that makes it a 1 1/4 to 1 1/2" gun. My bore is 0.4592. My case/chamber will only handle 0.4623" bullets. My leade/throat would like a 0.465+ bullet. I've tried cast bullets from 350 to 550 grs, PB & GC, bore ride and full ogival nose, hard and soft, fast and slow, you name the powder and I've tried it. It's hard to make a bullet go straight down the bore when you allow some yaw on the back end. If your stuck with what you got, your going to have to find the correct powder and alloy to allow the max case sized bullet to bump up uniformily into the throat. If'in you find the right combination, let me know cause I'm still looking. Jacketed bullets will do better cause of their increased hardness.

You want it much tighter than you got. Throw in a ham, and pull out the bone.:-D

We shoot one holers with marlin 45/70's. So if you guys are telling me they have the same baggy case to chamber tolerance I'll just have to see what me and uncle Veral can do. The middle group on this page is what we consistantly have marlin 45/70's doin at 50 and the one to the top left would be what we would consider norm at 100

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/anderson/50_alaskan.htm

[BABore]

I never said they ALL had big chambers. My first (ported) 450 Marlin barrel was nice and tight. It would shoot anything well. My current barrel just plain sucks. Most all of the 450 Marlins have a normal leade and throat to them. Their 45-70 barrels are just the opposite, with little to no throat. A loose chamber job will never shoot well as easily as a well fit one.

My 450, as bad as it is, will shoot right along side those pictured groups you have linked to. My 45-70 is dimensioned properly and will shoot cast 100 yard groups like this one, when I do my part properly.

[charger 1]

Please have a look at the editing of opening post fellas. Tell me if you think the long slow lead will help please

[Bass Ackward]

Please have a look at the editing of opening post fellas. Tell me if you think the long slow lead will help please



Charger,

Help what? Your confidence? What if I say yes and it doesn't? What if I say yes and it works just fine? Do you realize how much depends on the guy doing the job?

If I had my choice between great chamber dimensions or a great barrel, I'll go the barrel thank you very much. In fact, if this is supposed to be a high velocity situation for hunting, then my first choice is taller rifling. But in truth, I build my own, so they get everything. :grin:

Remember, you can order a reamer special if you can convince the guy that you know what you want. Then again, it matters how you chamber it too. You can have a tight spec'd reamer and just run the RPMs up on the lathe for speed. This will create heat and you end up with a bigger chamber than if you used a standard reamer and ran slow, using plenty of oil, stopping to clean often. In the olden days, you had rougher reamers that removed the bulk of the material and you could zip those and just run a finisher slow. Now all guys buy are finishers and just run them like they were a rougher.

So it depends on how the job is being done too! 98% of custom projects are knocked out in less than two hours. It takes me two days. :grin:


You have to understand that these are and have been out there for years. And some one has shot lead in it for years. So iffin they did it, chances are you'll figure it out too.

Now if your question is will this guarantee bench-rest accuracy? Nope, what does?