Just bought a new gun, what is it!?!?! (Cz-83?)

[olivestab]

Hey guys, Recently I asked you all for some opinions on the makarov pistol, but unfortunately there where none available in my area, and I did not want to jump through hoops ordering one online.

After visiting 6 shops, the last one I visited with no interest in looking for the makarov because it was a small place and I knew they wouldn't have one, but I was passing by so what the heck, I stopped.
The owner said he did not have a makarov, but he mentioned that he had a "CZ" in his desk.
I thought CZs where more expensive than maks, so I never had the CZ on my radar because of the price.
From what I hear, the CZs are like "updated" makarovs?
Anyway,
I asked to look at it, it was used, and has an odd "GRAY" slide instead of a blued or steal one.
I asked how much and he said how much do I have, I told him 290 cash and he said SOLD!
None of the owners know where the gun came from, and there are no marks on the gun stating specifically what make it is, but I think it is a CZ-83.

Here are the pictures. Everything about the gun matches the cz-83 specs according to the manual.
If you know anything about the marks, or why the slide is GRAY, please let me know.
6555065551655526555365554

The guns feels great and I am satisfied with my purchase.

[Combat Diver]

Looks like a cz82 in 9x18mm, previous Czech Army service pistol. The she 85 with crossed swords is year made and Czech Army proofs. The cz83 would be marked on left side of slide with commerical markings and in either .380 or .32 ACP (9mm Browning or 7.65mm Browninng) My 83 is in 9mm Browning. Seems someone refinished the slide and other markings, should have the importer name and address on it (I've got my Form 6 importer license naming me the importer on mine). Shooting .380 in it will bulge the cases and bullets will be undersized.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/9809cz_s_resized.JPG
cz75 preB
cz83
cz50 (has she and crossed swords)

CD

[PB234]

It looks like a CZ82. Nice gun. Probably has polygonal rifling. Suggest starting to look for an extra magazine as it will not get easier.

[olivestab]

We know for sure that it is 380 auto, the 9x18 is loose in the chamber and in the barrel, where as the 380 is snug.

[PB234]

What kind of rifling is in the barrel?

[Combat Diver]

problem is that the 9x18 Mak is a .363 inch diameter, .380 is .355" Makarov case is longer and fatter.

CD

[olivestab]

Looks like a cz82 in 9x18mm, previous Czech Army service pistol. The she 85 with crossed swords is year made and Czech Army proofs. The cz83 would be marked on left side of slide with commerical markings and in either .380 or .32 ACP (9mm Browning or 7.65mm Browninng) My 83 is in 9mm Browning. Seems someone refinished the slide and other markings, should have the importer name and address on it (I've got my Form 6 importer license naming me the importer on mine). Shooting .380 in it will bulge the cases and bullets will be undersized.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/9809cz_s_resized.JPG
cz75 preB
cz83
cz50 (has she and crossed swords)

CD
thankyou for your reply.
We fit a 9x18 round into the back of the barrel when the slide was off, and the round was loose.
we then took a 380 round and it seemed to fit better, what do you make of this??
what should I do to tell if it is really 380 or 9x18?

[olivestab]

What kind of rifling is in the barrel?

I looked through it and it doesn't seem to have any pattern inside the barrel, just smooth.

[olivestab]

I really hope it is in 380, the sore owner took 10 mins to figure it out and he said it was 380 auto.
I just spent 60$ for 150 rnds. I got very lucky and found 3 boxes of remmington at walmart. I cannot find 9x18 anywhere.

[Combat Diver]

Try different ammo. Something is amiss as the 9x18 is a fatter and longer case. .363" dia compared to .355" and one case is 1mm longer (headspace is on case mouth).

cD

[olivestab]

should load the mag with some 380 then rack the slide back to cycle them through to see how smooth it is and if anything jams?

[roots911]

The 9x18 had polyagonal rifling and the 380 has lands and grooves. The poly will look almost like a smooth bore. 9x18 is the Makarov round and is longer and bigger in diameter than the 380. The 9x18 will not fit in a 380 chamber.

[Combat Diver]

cz83 has conventional rifling, cz82 is polygonal (sp). Czech Army/Min Defense never used the cz83 only the cz82 in 9mm Mak. The 83 is a commerical gun with a very few chambered in 9mm Mak but without "she" markings.


CD

[olivestab]

The 9x18 had polyagonal rifling and the 380 has lands and grooves. The poly will look almost like a smooth bore. 9x18 is the Makarov round and is longer and bigger in diameter than the 380. The 9x18 will not fit in a 380 chamber.


cz83 has conventional rifling, cz82 is polygonal (sp). Czech Army/Min Defense never used the cz83 only the cz82 in 9mm Mak. The 83 is a commerical gun with a very few chambered in 9mm Mak but without "she" markings.


CD
Yes, we tried to insert a 380 and a 9x18... now I can't remember if it was just 9mm or what... I just remember seeing him put in a 380 and it fit perfectly and he said 380 was it...

what can I do to safely test?

[PB234]

I would check again as it doesn't seem like a 380. It is the kind of rifling found in the 82 for the Mak cartridge. The 83s that I have seen have a different trigger guard, but I do not know if that was always the case or a more recent version. The 82 is excellent. I could easily be wrong, but am unaware of the 82 being made in 380 and would find it odd for their military to use anything in 380 back then.

[Combat Diver]

olivestab

Once you figure the correct chambering they are very good pistol. DA/SA trigger and you can carry cocked and locked if you prefer (I do with my 1911s, BHPs, Coonans, CZ50/75s)


CD

[olivestab]

What can I do to find out what caliber it takes? sould I take off the slide, turn it over and insert a 380 round into the shell grooves?
should I put a lead ball through the barrel to measure the exact diameter of the barrel?

I am not home so I cannot check with the ammo, but I will update when I can access my ammo asap.

[Combat Diver]

I would check again as it doesn't seem like a 380. It is the kind of rifling found in the 82 for the Mak cartridge. The 83s that I have seen have a different trigger guard, but I do not know if that was always the case or a more recent version. The 82 is excellent. I could easily be wrong, but am unaware of the 82 being made in 380 and would find it odd for their military to use anything in 380 back then.

The CZ83 was orginally made with a round trigger guard. Mine was made in 1986 and later changed to a hooked/square trigger guard.

CD

[PB234]

Olive, if he tried to fed it a 9 Luger it should not have fit. If his examples were 380 and 9mm that about explains it. It is an excellent pistol. Mak ammo used to be cheap. I don't use it only because buying an 82 means reloading another cartridge. Still would like to have an 82.

[Combat Diver]

Can you do a chamber cast? If you lived nearby I would invite you over to shoot in the backyard. .380 ammo will bulge when fired inside a 9mm chamber. Not something to do all the time but FYI for emergencies. Like firing a .22LR in a .22 WRM but more bulge.

[Combat Diver]

Was thinking that someone put a .380 barrel on a 82 frame but then the serial numbers wouldn't match but they do.


CD

[PB234]

CD, I have trouble liking the looks of the newer trigger guard, but I guess it is great for those who use it.

[olivestab]

The CZ83 was orginally made with a round trigger guard. Mine was made in 1986 and later changed to a hooked/square trigger guard.

CD


Olive, if he tried to fed it a 9 Luger it should not have fit. If his examples were 380 and 9mm that about explains it. It is an excellent pistol. Mak ammo used to be cheap. I don't use it only because buying an 82 means reloading another cartridge. Still would like to have an 82.

This is a little upsetting, since I sold a box of 9x18 after someone bought the E.German Mak I wanted.
I only sold it after I purchased this CZ and the guy said it was in 380 auto.
I guess I will have to do a chamber cast to know for sure.

Also, what does Bulge mean? will this break the gun?

[olivestab]

Can you do a chamber cast? If you lived nearby I would invite you over to shoot in the backyard. .380 ammo will bulge when fired inside a 9mm chamber. Not something to do all the time but FYI for emergencies. Like firing a .22LR in a .22 WRM but more bulge.

maybe thats exactly what happened? and that would explain the GRAY slide??

[PB234]

CD, I noticed and welcome home.

[Combat Diver]

Case will swell to larger diameter. Can split the case and allow gas to flow back. Shouldn't break the gun but do wear eye protection!

CD

[Combat Diver]

CD, I noticed and welcome home.

Thanks, going back to Astan shortly again.

CD

[olivestab]

I wont be home for another 5 hours, (house sitting) and I am desperate to figure this out cause I have nothing better to do atm.
I have no access to tools, ammo, or calipers right now. Just various house hold items.

Here is some odd little aluminum ring I found that was wrapped flush around a pen, I took more pictures with the size comparisons to a dime, along with the clip hoping someone with experience can tell for sure based off the pictures.
655626556365564

Are there any "homemade" tests or cheats I can do with various household items?
what better angle, and Of what should I take a better picture of if it will help?

If you haven't noticed, I am still green when it comes to guns.
This is my second purchase in the past 2 months.
-My first gun was handed down to me, a 455 New Service COLT revolver,
-My second gun/First purchase was a Marlin Model 60.
-Second purchase was this cz-82 (thought it was an 83)

I do not have loads of money, but I want to be an avid collector.
I make sure that I do full research and get the "best bang for the buck" with my guns, and I love to know every little thing about them, so I will always be asking experienced users online, so I hope Im not annoying anybody with these silly questions and "tests" trying to figure out what my gun is supposed to shoot.

[PB234]

Olive, maybe slow down a little? Lots of time to figure out what you want. The Colt revolver is an interesting piece. I believe the 455 Colt = 455 Webley and so you might want to try to find some of the brass Hornady recently ran off. I think Graffs is the place to buy it if it still is around. I do not know bout the strength of the Colts revolver, but when loading for the Webley one uses a very gentle load. The brass was a special run and something I would buy some of now if I had that Colt. Matts Casting (a vendor here) is selling cast boolits for the 455 Webley. Lee made dies for the cartridge and a light load of Unique is liked by many. I use some lead swagged lead hollow base bullets made by Remington and sold by Buffalo Arms mostly for the 45 Colt, but also for the Webley. The Colts revolver is a prize for you and a piece of history. Probably a lot of fun to shoot too.

Odds are probably 95% to 99% you have a CZ82 in 9mm Mak. You could take a chamber cast to be completely sure. Mostly if a shop owner is slipping different cartridges into a firearm and deciding that whatever fits is what it is maybe you want to go to a different shop.

[olivestab]

Olive, maybe slow down a little? Lots of time to figure out what you want. The Colt revolver is an interesting piece. I believe the 455 Colt = 455 Webley and so you might want to try to find some of the brass Hornady recently ran off. I think Graffs is the place to buy it if it still is around. I do not know bout the strength of the Colts revolver, but when loading for the Webley one uses a very gentle load. The brass was a special run and something I would buy some of now if I had that Colt. Matts Casting (a vendor here) is selling cast boolits for the 455 Webley. Lee made dies for the cartridge and a light load of Unique is liked by many. I use some lead swagged lead hollow base bullets made by Remington and sold by Buffalo Arms mostly for the 45 Colt, but also for the Webley. The Colts revolver is a prize for you and a piece of history. Probably a lot of fun to shoot too.

Odds are probably 95% to 99% you have a CZ82 in 9mm Mak. You could take a chamber cast to be completely sure. Mostly if a shop owner is slipping different cartridges into a firearm and deciding that whatever fits is what it is maybe you want to go to a different shop.

Thanks for responding.
Im home now, and I will be visiting another shop tomorrow where they can check the gun for me.
I do not have 9x18 to check it, only 380. so I took some pictures of the round being inserted in various places on the gun.
to me it DOES seem a little loose, but Ill have to see what happens with the 9x18.

Here is the 380 round, I was able to fit 12 rounds in the clip, but it felt like I could have squeezed more in.
I was a bit difficult to get the last few in there, so I did not want to force any in.
656146561565616

Here is series of shots with the round casing inserted into the groove, you can see that the groove is not deep enough to hold the round upright on its own, but it seems to look like a good fit when I hold it up flush.
65617656186561965620

Here is the round fitting right into the barrel, It is not snug, it jiggles around a tad bit if you shake it.
65624

Here you can see how much of an angle the bullet has room to move around before the shell goes all the way in.
65625

The bullet at the end of the barrel. It definitely fits in flush, but not snug, and the shell cannot enter.
65626

[PB234]

A CZ 82 (9 MAK) and CZ83 (the 380 version) can both use the same magazine. CZ no longer imports the 83 into the USA and may not even be making it anymore. Magazines have gotten more expensive with the latest frenzy and it is likely almost impossible to buy a commercial CZ83 magazine currently. The 82 magazines have gone up in price considerably but seem to turn up on auction sites.

You are not going to figure much out shaking a 380 around the chamber of your CZ. If you find that you CZ is a 9MAK your will also discover you can make the brass by trimming 9 Luger brass down to the correct length. I do not know where sells cast for the 9 MAk but have seen it and so a scale, inexpensive press, powder, primers, and a set of Lee carbide dies, tools to shorter the 9 mm Luger case to 9 MAK a couple books (one how to and at least one load manual), and you can start loading your own and save a bunch of money. If you do not like to teach yourself after carefully reading "how to load books" find someone who is a capable loader and have them show you how. Very easy to do and about the only way to afford to feed your CZ. If you decide to load your own slow down and be very careful as a mistake can turn into a very bad problem for you both when loading and when firing.

I think you have lots of years to enjoy the hobby so just slow down and read about what you want, how it works, and know what it is you have in your hand. It is mostly all there on the web right on your screen. CZ makes excellent products and most agree they deliver the products at a great value/price.

Shooting the wrong ammo out of a firearm may ruin your day, week, year, or life. That goes for poorly loaded hand loads or ammo that someone thought was right because it was able to be chambered. Wrong ammo can equal a blown up firearm and that will not do any good for the hand or person holding it. I was at a range when a guy had a rifle blow up. It was not exactly pretty even though he was lucky and not too badly hurt. You do have eye and ear protection?

Slow down and read. There is no hurry. Nothing is going anywhere and will be there tomorrow and the following days. I recall 82 surplus magazines at about $20 and now probably chasing about $65. Commercial 83 mags were about $35 and now probably just unavailable; however you can always check the CZ USA web site and see if there are any in stock.

Mostly learn to be safe. You only come with two eyes and ears and ten fingers. They are not replaceable and it can be worse than losing one of these bits of your body.

Best of luck and stay away from guys who stick a cartridge in a firearm and say if it fits it must be right.

[cylinderman]

PB234 is telling like it is. I make all my 9x18 brass from 9x19 luger works very well and easy. I don't own a cz 82 but have several chambered in 9x18. I tested a 380 round in the chamber and it drops noticeably too far and very loose, sat below the breach edge of barrel. I would suggest to slug the barrel to find groove diameter, this will tell for sure. Also I think all 9x18 cz have polygonal rifling which has angles instead of lands and grooves with square edges.

[HATCH]

It's 9x18
A 9x19 would not go all the way into the barrel to the case or shouldn't unless its shot out.
I am too tired to pull my make out te safe to take a pic of what I am saying...

[olivestab]

You guys where right.
Honestly, I believed you from the start, but the new gray slide on my gun was what threw me off.
Its supposed to be blued, so I thought it may have been altered. Plus I'm new to all this gun stuff.

I Brought it to another store near by and checked, the 9x18 fit in perfectly.
I cant understand how the shop keeper thought it would be 380. but now that I think about it, I think it was 9mm Luger her tried, they didn't have a box of 9mak.

Anyways I called the guy back and told him it was in fact 9x18, they where surprised but the cool thing was that he agreed to straight out trade box for box of 9x18 for all the ammo I picked up at walmart during the waiting period.
Even though they where wrong about the gun, the guys are very friendly and do not have mark up prices on their guns.
They also do free ffl transfers.

I will be trading 3 boxes of remmington 380 for 3 boxes of 9mak without a problem. I know that 380 is worth a little more, but Im not looking to cut corners here and Im not fixing for a deal at this point, I Just want the right ammo for my gun.
because of heir cooperation and friendliness I will continue to do business with them despite the fact that they almost set me up to loosing my hand! l

The shop is called HERITAGE GUN & COIN (http://www.heritagegunandcoin.com) located in warwick RI.

[Combat Diver]

Glad to hear everything is workout for you. You will enjoy your new pistol.


CD

[PB234]

And if you decide to reload for it many believe that the poly rifling is not compatible with lead/cast bullets and advise to only use jacketed. Someone will come on after this post and say they use cast successfully and I do not doubt it; however it remains your fingers holding the pistol. If it were me I would use jacketed and not take any risk. You will find this a discussed issue where people have Glocks.

Save your brass just in case you decide to reload. About 4 cents for the primer and a couple cents of powder and whatever a jacketed bullet costs and you can see that the savings will shortly pay for the equipment and allow to you shoot more for the same money.

[HATCH]

I load cast for mine and don't have any issues.
Its a snappy shooter for sure.

[Wayne Smith]

I only shoot cast in my 92. Get the Lee 9mmMak trimmer stem, trimmer cutter with the wooden ball handle, and the three jaw chuck. Put the chuck into your drill motor, mount a 9mm case, and trim down to the 9mmMak length. Takes a second or so. You can do a hundred in no time, a thousand in a little more. Go ahead and cut a bunch, they fly and are almost impossible to find if you don't use a tarp.

Miha made a nice Cramer HP mold for this a while back. Might be time for another run at it. He can cut it for the 380 or the 9mmMak on the same run.

[HATCH]

Figure a 20% loss on brass if your at a indoor public range.
I shot probably about 500 cast out of one of my maks. I own 5 of them.
In fact i am in Fla on vacation and i am carrying a east German mak.
Two mags and a box of 50 reloads.
Figure if the shtf i should be able to gt home with that or at least get a better weapon with that.

[Giggidy]

I just shot some cast through my 82 yesterday with just some faint streaks down the barrel. Berry's used to make plated bullets for the 9x18, but they disappeared from their site some time ago. I don't know if that was a result of the panic buying and they were going to focus on more in-demand bullets or if they completely dropped them. I've seen from reading past posts on various sites that Berry's discontinued the 9x18 in the past, but apparently brought them back, so they may show back up again at some point. I purchased some cast bullets from meistercast. They were about $16 for 100. I've got a Lee mold so I can cast them myself. I wanted the meistercast ones to figure out how .365 would perform in my gun so I can get a sizer die ordered. They're great guns and I could see myself grabbing a second one at some point in the future.