New to me 30-30 First crack at rifle casting

[Fernando]

Well in a story that is probably not new.
I picked up another 30-30 today.
After having at least 5 in past ages 3 wins and 2 marlins
that in the day only saw factory J bullets - never thought it was
worth reloading such a boring old cartridge and stuck all my time
into learning how to go really fast and then shoot tiny tiny groups
and turn clay birds in dust clouds.
I have come full circle and picked up a Win 94 26" oct.
This one will never see copper again.
How and what type of crimp do you use?
Do you let the boolit determine OAL, feeding or chamber?
Brand new to this rifle cast thing and haven't used that many gaschecks
in my handguns either.
What are good alloys to start with?
Any helpful hints will be appreciated.
I'm searching all the info I can find in here also.
Thanks

[sthwestvictoria]

Do you have any molds as yet?

I am using the Lee TL-314-90SWC, Lee 309-150FPGC and Lee 309-170FPGC. I have some alunimium gas checks that were gifted to me. Some people shoot light (1000fps) loads with the 150 and 170. The 90SWC is a plain base.
I just use air cooled wheel weights with 2% tin.
For the little 90grain SWC I use trailboss for 1.5"groups with open sights at 50metres, Lee Liquid Alox.
For the 150grainFP I use AR2206h (hodgdons H4895), this is pan lubed with beewax/vaseline/lanolin, getting a 1"group at 50metres (only done it once!)
For the 170grain I use AR2205 (H4227), again pan lubed.
All boolits sized to .311
Load data from ADI website or the Lyman 4th Ed Handbook
I have not had accuracy success with Lee liquid alox or 45/45/10 for the heavier bullets, still experimenting there.

[nekshot]

Love those oct barrels! For oal, I take a empty deprimed case and insert each boolit (maybe wrap aluminum foil around base to hold boolit in case snuggly) and chamber it a couple times and measure and this will give you chamber length and as you eject you will find your oal for the gun. I keep notes on each gun, with all the differant boolit lengths so I never have to do this twice. Just read the note and set to length and go boom.
nekshot

[OverMax]

Gas checking: Some reloaders prefer a higher BHN factor as a substitute for gas checking. Any I've bought or made. Always had gas checks.
Bullet Lead material: Clip on wheel weights are an excellent choice for that purpose.
Crimp: Nice reasonable roll crimp into one of its bullet rings is all that's required by your commonly used seating die.
OAL: You still should measure like any other cartridges you've reloaded in the past. (That's a common necessity in reloading.)
Powder: I don't know what you have already available sitting on your bench? (Why buy some other powder if there's no need too.)

O/M

[northmn]

Depends on your use. 30-30 is a great cartridge for anything from 32-20 class laods up to full factory equivalent loads with cast. For deer I have a 188 grain bullet I like. For general use the Lee 150 grain works well and it will shoot my 120 grain bullets I use in the 32-20. Re7 is a good powder as is a whole bunch of others.

DP

[6pt-sika]

At one point I was casting for something like 10-12 different Marlin's in 30-30 ! Models 1893 , 36 and 336 . Some of the 336's were Micro and a couple were Ballard .

I shot several thousand bullets in these guns . Mostly the Lyman 311041 and the Ranch Dog 311-165GC . Also liked the Saeco 30-150GC , the RCBS 30-150GC , the RCBS 30-180GC , the Lyman 311041 HP , the Lee 309-150 and the Lee 309-170 .

With these I only ever used SR4759 and XMP5744 .

My first try at bullet casting was the 45-70 followed by the 38-55 and then I tried the 30-30 . I'd been casting for rifles a couple years before I ever cast any for pistols .

The second or third year I had been casting I started trying them for hunting !

That year I killed my first deer with a cast bullet and a non scoped gun using a Marlin 336CB in 38-55 shooting the Lyman 375449 pushed with SR4759 , later that year I killed another deer with the Marlin 1895CB 45-70 shooting the Lyman Gould 330 grain HP again pushed with SR4759 and finally that same season I used a Marlin 336CB in 30-30 shooting the Lee 309-170GC and again pushed with SR4759 .

[detox]

What is old is new again. I have graduated from shooting precision BR bolt actions using jacketed boolits back to simple lever action with cast boolits...lots funner. I just ordered a Marble's tang site for my Winchester 94.

The Lyman 30 cal 041 (good crimp groove) gas checked bullet is an old time favorite. Size to .310. I use SPG lube in my Lube-a-matic. I also use the lyman gas check seater in my Lube-a-matic to seat gas checks squarely. IMR 4198 and 5744 are the powders i have.
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/mould-details-rifles.php?entryID=48

I use the Hornaday two die set with Lyman M expander. Lyman die set will include this M expander.

[Fernando]

How do 30-30 cases fail?
Splits, head separations etc...
What pressure signs to look for?

[nekshot]

The cartridge itself is kinda thin and weaker than alot of newer cartridges. After shooting in rifle I never FL resize unless I have to. I also don't mix those unsized brass into other guns unless I FL resize them. I also don't shoot with set back primers and cartridges sticking in chamber from high preasure. I do notwork the neck at all other than the seating die and crimp die. I have very little split necks or collapsed shoulders since this is all I do. For hunting I simply make sure the cartridges I take work freely thru gun. One more thing, throw out the oal thing, because you want to get you bullet as close to rifling for best accuracy and still eject. Each boolit profile will have a differant length as a rule because of chamber throat dimensions. Don't worry just do it, its more fun than copper!

[rintinglen]

I like the Lee factory crimp die a whole lot for use in the 30-30. It minimizes the effect of cartridge case length on crimp strength. The Lyman M die or the RCBS equivalent are also very handy.
I have loaded Lyman 311-419, 311-245, 311-316, 311-465, 311-466, 311-291, and 311-041 boolits, ranging from 32 H&R velocities up to full power, hunting loads. I have also loaded NOE 311-407, RCBS 30-180FN, LBT 311-100 SWC, and perhaps a couple more I don't recall. My favorite powders have been, Herco, Unique, 2400, IMR 3031, and WW-748. Given just two, I'd pick 2400 and WW-748, as they meter the best. IMR 4759 is also good, but doesn't meter well at all.
30-30 cases tend to have head separations more than any other case I've reloaded. Not saying they are common, but neither are they Halley's Comet either.

Favorite loads

93 grain 311-245 rn over 8.5 grains of Herco. Great little load that is accurate enough to kill squirrels. Also works fine on silhouette chickens.

120 grain 311-316 gas check over 17.5 grains 2400, sort of a 32-20 on steroids, or an M-1 Carbine wannabee. This will kill a Coyote DRT.

125 grain 311-465 GC, very accurate with 17.5 grain of 2400 for about 1950 fps. I used this on Lever Action Silhouette pigs and chickens.

180 grain 311-041 gc, 34.0 WW-748. Full power load that runs 2200 fps out of my NRA Commemorative Musket. Works well on Silhouette Rams.

[popper]

FCD & lyman 303 M die (31 vs 30 for 30-30). Neck splits for me, I'm close to wearing out PP on a few. 1-2% Sb, Sn if you need it. Unique, 2400, 4895, LeverE work for me. I anneal the neck by dipping into the pot for a few seconds every 15-20 reloads.

[Fernando]

Is there any make of brass that is best? Lapua doesn't make it[smilie=1:
I take it from reading it is best to assemble a die set from dif makers?
Lyman M die , lee crimp type set-up?
Are some size dies known to be tighter than others?
Any dies to stay away from?
Haven't used many others lately other than Wilson and Redding (BR game)

[6pt-sika]

Is there any make of brass that is best? Lapua doesn't make it[smilie=1:
I take it from reading it is best to assemble a die set from dif makers?
Lyman M die , lee crimp type set-up?
Are some size dies known to be tighter than others?
Any dies to stay away from?
Haven't used many others lately other than Wilson and Redding (BR game)

Get you a set of the RCBS Cowboy dies or a reguler set of Lyman dies and the "M" die . I used the Lyman's and the M die for a number of years with very good results . Used the RCBS Cowboy dies in a number of other calbers for loading cast . Both worked very well for me .

[GabbyM]

2nd the RCBS Cowboy dies. They have an expander similar to the Lyman M die.

[sthwestvictoria]

Is there any make of brass that is best? Lapua doesn't make it[smilie=1:
I take it from reading it is best to assemble a die set from dif makers?

I am using a Hornady Universal .30 neck sizing die, Lee Universal case mouth expander and then Lee bullet seating die. The M die is likely to be a better expanding die if you are using soft alloy as the Lee die only bells the case mouth compared to the M die opening the whole neck. This results in less squeeze on soft projectiles.

[Fernando]

Well got all the crude out of the bore and all but a few tiny pits are gone.
I don't think it saw a brush in 40yrs of copper and lead.
Screws were loose and lapped a ding out of the muzzle.
Amazing what some will let happen to a rifle.
But once I refinish the stock it'll pass. (probably over paid on this one?)
Picked up a set of used BR dies from an old sillywet shooter will add the M die.
Found a peep adapter to put one of my Olympic rears on and will
wait to see what hight front I need to run for my Annie/Shaver front.
Got some brass on the way 25/c once fired!!:veryconfu - They panicked on 30-30 stuff????
Trying to decide on a mould - what is Accurate's copy of the Lyman 041??
I have 60+lbs of slightly softer than WW and 50lbs of reclaimed shot - will add
2lbs of 95/5 leadfree - Does this sound like a viable alloy??
I was thinkin I might have to re-bore but I'll give her a go as is and then decide.

Anything anyone thinks I forgot please jump in

[runfiverun]

http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=1
scroll down to the 31-170-f.
i'd just use your slightly softer than ww alloy maybe some tin for fill out and water drop.
.310 is where I would start in diameter.

[northmn]

The reclaimed shot makes excellent bullets and will even heat treat. I use shot a lot in my hunting loads. Keep it seperate and use the other stuff mixed with tin for softer loads.

DP

[Fernando]

Got a set of Bonanza BR dies that also came with a Lyman seating die.
Picked up the M-die
Ordered a 31-170F from Tom
2M of Gators on the way.
.310 die for now couldn't find a .311 in stock anywhere.

Do you still leave the expander ball in the resize die when using the M-die??
Anything I'm forgetting?
Lot's of H335 speed to test thats left over from doggin - figure it'll get me
what I'm after. Anything north of say 1750 with best accuracy.
Any suggestions just jump right in.
Thanks for all the help guys

[sthwestvictoria]

Looks like you are good to go Fernando, thank you for reporting back. I find it interesting to see things progress. ON this thread:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?197749-Keyholing-Why
Jeff82 stated that he figures on two years to get a rifle/cast combination perfect. I'm not far off that with my 30-30 having been fooling with loads and cast for 18 months with some good loads but experimentation goes on. However a 35 whelen load came together in a week so you can luck out!

Can't help with the M die I'm afraid, i've only got the Lee case mouth expander.

Would love to see some targets when you get it shooting.