economics

[starmac]

At what price does rimfire have to be, before it is more economical to load something the 17 or 22 centerfire calibers?

[jcwit]

All depends on what one paid for the reloading components. In my case, .22 Long Rifle would have to be less than $10.00 a brick. But then I purchased my components years ago, all on sale or on closeouts.

[rbuck351]

For me it's about $25 per brick and I can load the 22H for about the same. Primers about $.03 and powder at $25 per lb is about 3gr per penny. A 40gr cast boolit almost doesn't count, so 5 cents for a 22LR or 5 cents for a 40gr 22H at 1800fps. Folks used to scoff when i said I could shoot 22H cheaper than they could shoot 22Mag. Now it's 22LR. It's real easy to beat the $45+ per brick the scalpers are getting. My 25/20 isn't much more than the Hornet. I think break even is about $25 per brick at current powder/primer cost assuming you could find any.

[Sasquatch-1]

Right now it is costing me less then 10 cents a round for .44. That is figuring $150.00 for 8#'s of Unique and I am even figuring $50.00 a thousand on primer although I have not paid that. At those prices it come to $.07 a round not including the cost to melt lead which is reclaimed range scrap. When loading with W296 it probably doubles the cost of powder.

[I'll Make Mine]

Heck, you can shoot a .38 Special for under a dime a round -- .360 round ball or #000 buckshot (size by pushing through a chamber of the suitably supported cylinder, if nothing better is available) or lightweight boolit, a couple grains of Bullseye or similar, and a primer. Don't even need dies, as long as you always shoot them in the same gun, just a punch to knock out the primer, a case-sized dowel and mallet (and a hard flat surface) to seat the new one, an old .22 case soldered to a straightened paper clip and filed down to throw the desired power charge, and the same punch used to knock out the primer can put a light stab crimp, right into the ball, three places to keep everything together (this is an old gun writer's load, I don't recall which one).

Quieter than a .22 LR in the same length barrel, and at today's prices should cost between six and eight cents a round; accurate enough to make aiming pay off (no one-hole groups at 25 yards, but minute of soda can at twenty feet if you pay attention). That was competitive with .22 even when a 50 box of the cheap stuff cost $2.29; it makes rimfire look silly in today's market.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Starmac,

I personally feel it goes a bit beyond just the dollars and cents laid out, to what you get for the buck.

I like .22 rimfires, have a GREAT SHOOTING Clark Custom RUGER 77/22 and a couple great shooting RUGER M II.

However, if you look at any distance being factored in, wind is a real bitter pill, and can be so even at short ranges with the .22 rimfire.

So, for me, I simply do not go there when it comes to such cartridges as the .17 rimfires or .22 mag rimfires.

No offense intended to those that like and enjoy those rounds! This is just where I come down.

When I am paying whatever the "normal" -- this is not a "normal" time as per ammo costs! - happens to be for .17 or .22 mag rimfire ammo, I am just to close to where a bit more cost just give me a huge amount more for the buck.

Time at the loading bench is a non-issue. I enjoy that time and there is no way to figure the dollar amount.

Many centerfires which would be my choice for anything beyond the .22LR.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[uscra112]

About 7 cents a round, I'd say. My favorite cheap round is .32 S&W Long. Using 1.8 grains of Red Dot and an 80 grain boolit, the primer is the most expensive part of the load. Being the farsighted individual that I am, I'm still working on SP primers that were $15/1000, and powder that was $14.95/lb., and scrap lead I bought at about .80 a pound, so my .32 loads might cost about 6 cents a round, factoring in fuel for smelting and casting. And the .32 in a good boy's rifle will do a close-range chuck about as well as the .22 rimfire will. Limiting usage to garden defense, powder, primers and shot that will fit into a shoebox will last me the rest of my life and maybe the next generation too, if they're frugal.

[tacklebury]

Other than for night time varmint hunting (must be rimfire here) I load my .223 down to 1275 fps. It might not be quite as cheap as .22 LR, but mines super consistent with less than 11 SD on a 10 shot string typically. Just 4.1 gr. Unique and a 45 gr. bullet. ;) I can pretty much put 5 though the same hole.

[shotstring]

I've been waiting half my life to get an Anschutz 22 for some seriously accurate but easy on the pocket book plinking and friendly competition. Now that I have finally done it, I find that the price of a brick of high end competition rimfire ammunition is the same price that I can reload 500 centerfire 308 cartridges. Even the mid priced 22 match ammunition is 2/3 of the price of reloaded centerfire cartridges. Doesn't seem right somehow. On the plus side, at least you can find and buy high priced match 22 ammo. Still, backing off a bit in accuracy and using CCI or Eley Sport 22 ammo is a mere pittance still compared to reloading centerfire.

[Iowa Fox]

A nickle is about my teetering point for rimfire and I doubt we will ever see those prices again. In about 1983 my wife loaded up on CCI primers for $4.95 per 1K net cost to our door. I'm still shooting them, next batch is $10.00 per K, then $15.00 per K. Powder for most of my plinking stuff is about a half a cent per round, left over kegs of shotgun powder from the old days. Figuring in lube and LP to smelt I'm going to round up high to $0.05 or a nickle per round. Now fast forward to these group buy mold days my cast bullet rounds probably cost me a buck a round. Still nothing nicer than a 22 rimfire that will stack them in one hole at 50yard.

[Wilson]

I've been loading 9mm for $34/K, 3.4 cents per round for a long time. Got components when primers were $95 per 5K. Using American Select bought in 8# cans and 125 grain cast boolits. The whole family love them. Our .38 load is nearly the same. All five us of pitch in for the reloading. It's a good family time.

[Swamp Man]

Well it's hard to say. I said years back I was going to stop shooting my 410 due to high cost but I'm still pulling the trigger at a buck plus a pop for slugs and buck loads just not as often as I use to. I just made the choice to start reloading the 410 but wouldn't you know I'd pick the time when press and supplies are slim and way over priced. So I'm on hold with my reloading plans until this madness is over at that point I'll buy gear for reloading and stock 22lr deep for cost control.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Yep Swampman! Makes sense, and as you already know, pretty hard to have an over supply of .22LR in hand.

CDOC

[Bwana]

Five cents a round for 9mm, 40S&W, 38Spl for me.

[Swamp Man]

Yep Swampman! Makes sense, and as you already know, pretty hard to have an over supply of .22LR in hand.

CDOCI'm lucky I had a nice stash of 22lr before this madness started to hold me over. Let's face it the older I get the cheaper I get so buying for price control will serve me well years down the road.

[Rio Grande]

All you guys keep patting yourselves on the back for buying cheap components years ago, we are all real proud of you, but that doesn't answer the OP which has to do I'm sure with current prices.

For me, small pistol primers at about 4 cents, and 5 or so grains of Unique negligible...free lead picked up at range...cases already on hand....38 special is cheaper than the $8/100 I find .22lr going for these days...when you can find it.

[starmac]

At my currant usage of 22 rimfire my ammo on hand will probably outlast me. I am not even sure what all calibers can be down loaded to compete with rimfires for hunting purposes, but am thinking some can be loaded cheaper than 22 magnum prices.

The ccm cooper round has peaked my interest, as it is just basically a reloadable 22 mag.

[rbuck351]

If you are casting your own boolits, then most anything can be shot cheaper than 22LR at $50 or more per brick. The little ones are more effecient and cheaper ( 22H,25/20,32/20) but almost any rifle can be shot cheaply by casting your own and keeping velocity in the 22LR range. I am shooting a 30/30 with a 150gr boolit at about 1900 fps for about 13cents per round and 10cents is powder. Drop down to 2 to 3cents of unique and you have 22lr speed with a 150gr boolit. Accuracy is under 1/2" at 50yds which is better than most 22s will shoot. I can get 125yd performance from my 25/20s for 6 to 7 cents per round at current powder/primer prices and in a 92 Win it's a hoot to shoot.
The ccm cooper would be neat if there were plenty of inexpensive guns available and brass was available. I would go with a 22H as guns and components are a lot more available.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

OK guys, here again I see people short cutting and leaving some of us behind.

What is a "ccm cooper"?

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Bren R.]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?12805-Bullshop-22-CCM&p=144124&viewfull=1#post144124

There's Bullshop's explanation.

Bren R.

[I'll Make Mine]

Yeah. I'll stick with a K-Hornet; easier to find, easier to find ammo/cases, easy to convert from original Hornet, and can easily replicate .22 WMR ballistics for much less than .22 LR cost (or, if you choose, outdo them by a good bit).

[Bullshop]

One of my favorite loads for the 22 CCM uses a 50gn PB boolit with .7gn WST for a load in the 22 long performance range for velocity but with a 12gn heavier boolit. At 30 yards or so squirrel shooting range it will group about the size of a pea. That is 10,000 shot from a pound of powder. The primer is the most expensive part of the load. I dont think you get that from a K Hornet with the same degree of accuracy.
If bigger cases were always better there would only be one case design in each caliber.

[Iowa Fox]

One of my favorite loads for the 22 CCM uses a 50gn PB boolit with .7gn WST for a load in the 22 long performance range for velocity but with a 12gn heavier boolit. At 30 yards or so squirrel shooting range it will group about the size of a pea. That is 10,000 shot from a pound of powder. The primer is the most expensive part of the load. I dont think you get that from a K Hornet with the same degree of accuracy.
If bigger cases were always better there would only be one case design in each caliber.

Bullshop, Tell us a little more about your 22CCM. I considered one for my Contender but didn't want to fiddle around with brass so I went with the 22 Hornet. Regular Hornet that is because I like that long neck without a should to worry about for bullet seating depth.

[Bullshop]

Well what would you like to know? I have two right now The Cooper rifle and the Ruger pistal. I had made one up on a Contender barrel but sold it.
Brass comes from Shroader Bullet Works of Sandiago Cal. It seem to last forever. I anneal it after about every half dozen shots. I still have most of the first box I ever baught maybe 15 or more years ago.
Performance wise it beats out a 22 wmr by a good margin. I have done a lot of chronographing for comparison with the 22 wmr and the Cooper will beat it by 400 fps with any bullet weight. The Cooper will get about 2000 fps with a 55gn boolit where the heavy load for the 22 mag is a 50gn at 1600 fps. These are rifle velocities.
I found this interesting, the 22 lr from a rifle gets about 1300 fps with a HV 40gn bullet. From a 6" barrel revolver about 900 fps.
The 22 Cooper will get 2000 fps from a rifle with 55gn boolit and about 1300 from a revolver.
Powder burn rates for top velocities are between 2400 and Lil-Gun. DO NOT!!! Use Hodgdons Long Shot in the 22 CCM. In this small case small bore Long Shot changes position on the burn rate chart and acts as a much faster powder. I have tried it several times and have learned to STAY AWAY! for this application.
Just to give an idea of the penitration of a 55gn boolit from the revolver I once finished off a moose with it. From a couple feet away the shot was down through the top of the head between the antlers. When we ate the toung we found the boolit. It still weighed about 40gn.
The Cooper rifle is about the most perfect fox gun I have ever used. Usint bullets swaged from 22 rf cases with pure lead core and jackets annealed dead soft they ferform on the light frame of a fox like a big game bullet on heavy game. I have recovered the ferfectly and fully expanded bullets under the hide on the off side of fox. Most cartridges like 222 or 223 are too much for fox if you want to sell the fur. The Cooper is perfect and is more than adiquate for calling ranges and to 150 yards or so.
Well maybe thats enough for now I know I get to rambling. Just push my button again if you want more.

[Iowa Fox]

Thanks Dan. I'd sure like to have a Cooper but I know that being retired I'll never be able to afford one.

[daniel lawecki]

I never try to figure the cost of my hobbies it takes the fun out them. So I'm still shooting three times a week but with all calibers I keep to around 400rds per week.

[Bullshop]

The cheapest way is to rechamber a 22 mag contender barrel. I still have the reamer.