New Marlin 1895G vs New Rossi Rio Grande

[22lover]

I am about to purchase a new 45-70 rifle for hog hunting in East Texas. I am torn between the 1895 Guide Gun (blued) and the Rossi Rio Grande. I have researched the Marlins, or "Remlins" as they are now called, as well as the Rossi. I will be purchasing new, as I've scrubbed the countryside for used examples of the Marlin. So, please consider that I'll either be buying a new Remington-made Marlin, or a new Rossi.

The Rossi is about $120 less than the Marlin. That's a plus in my book. Both actual rifles seem constructed well, with fitment and finish being quite good. The Marlin is made in the USA, which is a plus in my book. However, it's not a plus if the quality down the road is ****. Same goes for the Rossi.

I've no experience with Marlin, ever. I had a Rossi .22 pump when I was a kid that was nothing but trouble. Ended up being returned and swapped for an Iver Johnson pump (fantastic).

Given the above, and that I'm not purchasing used, which would be the better "long term" buy? By that, I mean I'd want to pass it down to my son someday. Oh, and I want to use it a lot, experimenting with loads from plinking to full-house "bruisers."

[btroj]

Marlin. Easier to scope. Easier to clean from the breech.

[fishnbob]

In the last coupla months I bought a Marlin 1895C and had to send it back to Remington 'cause the sights didn't line up on top of the barrel. They fixed it (rebarreled) and sent it straight back promptly and I didn't have to touch the sights to bullseye it @ 50 yds. I bought a Rossi in 45 Colt and had to order an new front sight to get it to hit @ 50 yds. When I called Rossi, I couldn't understand the person on the other end, so I just bought one online to solve my problem. I would hate to have to send a Rossi back for repairs based on my experience. The choice is yours, I can only offer my own experience which is limited. Both shoot darn good and function well. I like both and if I had it to do over, I would probably do the same damn thing.

[fishnbob]

marlin. Easier to scope. Easier to clean from the breech.

amen on the breech!!

[22lover]

Thanks folks, that's exactly the push towards the Marlin I needed. I was lured in on the Rossi a bit by the cost delta as well as the similar fit and finish. Was thinking those dollars could go towards the dies and mould. However, a hundred or so bucks difference won't matter a year from now, much less 30 years from now. Thanks again.

[22lover]

Picked it up this afternoon. I'm very pleased, overall. The one I got was the display model (all that was left). The wood to metal fit on it is not what I'd call ideal, so I'll be sending it in on warranty sometime soon. Not a huge deal, but I consider my guns as items I'll be handing down. I decided to snap it up anyway since they're so hard to come by around here. Thus ends the 4-month search for a Guide Gun in Dallas.

[starmac]

Do they warranty wood to metal fit???

[GARCIA]

Tear it down all the way and inspect it real good.
There was one that was sent out from the factory with a cracked receiver.
Could of been in this forum or over on the Marlin Owners Forum that i had seen it.
Either way it is going back to the factory.

I bought a 1894 Marlin in 45 Colt online from Cabela's.
It went back to the factory and had the barrel replaced.
It was missing some lands and grooves the last 1/2" of the barrel.
Never even put a round through it!! Got it back and all was good.

Tom

[Lead Fred]

Last year I bought a 2002 GG for $400, and it will be with me for the rest of my days.
It wasnt new, it had 8 rounds fire thru it. It was more than the owner could handle recoil wise.
Being that he bought the wrong ammo, I took them a part, repowdered them with R-7, and they worked just dandy.
My buddy had a Rossi for 4 months, sold it and bought a Marlin

[GARCIA]

Here is the link on the cracked receiver.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/marlin-rant-forum/113861-crack-my-nib-unfired-1895-gbl.html

[NVScouter]

[QUOTE=btroj;2133712]Marlin. Easier to scope. QUOTE]

How do you figure? The Rossi comes with a scope mount already installed just add rings/scope and go

[btroj]

[QUOTE=btroj;2133712]Marlin. Easier to scope. QUOTE]

How do you figure? The Rossi comes with a scope mount already installed just add rings/scope and go

Then I stand corrected. My bad.

[TXGunNut]

Good call on the Marlin but I've been looking pretty hard at a Rossi project. What kind of wood-metal fit issues did you find? The recent production Remlins I've examined have all been pretty decent, possibly better than late production (pre Rem) Marlins. Don't much care for the finish and the wood I've seen is pretty plain but I can deal with that.

[NVScouter]

[QUOTE=NVScouter;2166761]

Then I stand corrected. My bad.

No problem G-Money :veryconfu
I've been searching for a 45-70 and had 2 shops tell me that they won't buy new ones any longer due to Marlin's current quality. I bought the Rossi and besides coming filthy out of the box overall fit is pretty good. It needed a serious cleaning then heavy oil and another cleaning to feel better. I also had to polish down one roll pin on the lever and tighten 2 screws. I'm off to shoot today so ill follow up.

[41 mag fan]

I bought a Remlin 45-70 back in Dec. I'll never buy another Marlin/Remlin "new" again.
Started out the loading gate was so stiff, it was a real chore gettting it loaded, then there was burrs so bad on it, that when loading it up, it would gall the brass, then the extractor had burrs that was taking chunks out of the case rim.
And on top of that the action when cycling has a gratey feel and the trigger is about 8.5lbs
It's at the gunsmiths now....paying for QC is not what I feel I should have to do, once they've left the factory.

[izzyjoe]

Marlin. Easier to scope. Easier to clean from the breech.

The Rossi is just a better a built knock off of a new Marlington. they come apart the same way, and clean them same way.

[jmort]

The 92 is a stronger action. Definitely not a "95" knock-off. The primary similarity is that they are both lever action guns.

[TXGunNut]

I would look far and wide in the used market.

Good point, plenty out there if you just look. Will be easier to find when the current silliness settles down.

[joec]

Can't compare the Rossi 92 to the Rio Grande models at all. Now the Rio Grande break down the same as the Marlin 336 which is pretty easy so they are also just as easy to clean as a marlin period. The Rossi 92 is based on a Winchester 1892 rifle with a stronger design which makes it one if not the strongest gun in its class.

Oh and I happen to own a 92 in 45 Colt and a RG in 45-70. I was going into buy a Marlin until I compared 2 different Marlins I left with the Rio Grande as well as cheaper in my opinion a better gun period.

[nekshot]

For all this griping and complaining (not saying it is unwarrented) why do I never see these horrible guns on the racks at reduced prices. I will gladly buy this "junk" as long as the barrel is not installed sideways. I figure there must be a ton of fellas looking for project guns and I show up to late!

[NVScouter]

i took mine out today and it shot the LEE 340g as cast over 51g of IMR3031. These are about 1850fps from the 20"barrel and are a bit rough from the bench. I'm going to slow them down to around 1600fps i think next time. First 3 shots with an Aimpoint at 100y they went into 2.5" a fine crosshair scope would have decreased that group.

i like the rifle but dont imagine prolonged shooting with hot loads.

[btroj]

I shoot my Marlin most with a 420 plain base and 24 gr of 2400. Goes 1350 or so and shoots great. It is easy to fire 50 in a day, no pain or soreness.

I have shot it much faster, it just isn't fun to do so.

[rexherring]

Just a thought, Henry now also makes a nice looking .45-70 big boy.

[NVScouter]

Just a thought, Henry now also makes a nice looking .45-70 big boy.

I handled it at the Gun show. Its about the same as the Rossi not as beefy or well finished as the older Marlins. I also didnt like some of the lines or grip.

[pdawg_shooter]

[QUOTE=btroj;2133712]Marlin. Easier to scope. QUOTE]

How do you figure? The Rossi comes with a scope mount already installed just add rings/scope and go

I just wonder why anyone would want to scope a 45-70?

[btroj]

Low light shooting ability? Easier to fire accurately. Failing eye sight?

Why? Because I want to.

[rexherring]

Low light shooting ability? Easier to fire accurately. Failing eye sight?

Why? Because I want to.

Sounds like my eyesight. It's a bugger with no line progressive lenses on a long sight radius but not with a handgun at full arms length. Red dots are nice.

[NVScouter]

Well I've only owned 2 red dots and do not see any advantage over iron sites. By the time a target gets too small compared to the iron site a red dot's dot is also too big. Then add the battery powered objective and I just can't see any advantage.

Iron sites are fine for most folks at 50/75/100/150y. But past that usually have too much meat compared to target size to be accurate. Scopes are great for load development and extended shooting.

I do think they ruin the lines and complicate a simple effective design. I may pull mine off when I'm done...we"ll see.

[NVScouter]

Rio grande rear site with Burris 4x on low rings
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/NVScouter/9042C13C-1402-4616-9502-33A041FACB75-2572-000003DDEC818D92.jpg

Front site with brass dot insert
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/NVScouter/0C77FF76-E501-445A-A3E4-B9D3CE889E63-2572-000003DDD7650832.jpg

[joec]

Rio grande rear site with Burris 4x on low rings
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/NVScouter/9042C13C-1402-4616-9502-33A041FACB75-2572-000003DDEC818D92.jpg

Front site with brass dot insert
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/NVScouter/0C77FF76-E501-445A-A3E4-B9D3CE889E63-2572-000003DDD7650832.jpg

I had to remove my rear sight to mount the Bushnell Banner scope on weaver medium rings as the front bell hit dead on it.

[NVScouter]

The rio grande was close with low rings. Medium rings it should take most scopes easily without removing the rear site. I would always choose to leave iron sites on in case the scope is damaged.

I also like my scopes as low to the barrel as will function.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/NVScouter/F937412D-76A5-4C0B-856B-5F78710B0B3F-2572-000003DE10909C35.jpg

[NVScouter]

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/NVScouter/3E80E918-DAB9-4CCB-A331-C7BB83235C0B-896-0000013852ED41C8.jpg

48g of IMR 3031 at 100y. The dot is only 1"
And the crosshairs on the 4X were the same size as it. Next time ill change the target to something easier to see with this reticle.

It was also 25* out with a 20mph crosswind. I warmed up in my truck between groups.

[NVScouter]

Does anybody know if the LEE 450g will feed well in a lever action? I want either the 405 or better yet 450g to run as a bear load and save the 340g for hunting. Both are back ordered and I'd hate to wait 6 weeks for a mold and have to do it again.

[jh45gun]

In the last coupla months I bought a Marlin 1895C and had to send it back to Remington 'cause the sights didn't line up on top of the barrel. They fixed it (rebarreled) and sent it straight back promptly and I didn't have to touch the sights to bullseye it @ 50 yds. I bought a Rossi in 45 Colt and had to order an new front sight to get it to hit @ 50 yds. When I called Rossi, I couldn't understand the person on the other end, so I just bought one online to solve my problem. I would hate to have to send a Rossi back for repairs based on my experience. The choice is yours, I can only offer my own experience which is limited. Both shoot darn good and function well. I like both and if I had it to do over, I would probably do the same damn thing.

I had to send my Ranch Hand Back for repairs I thought their customer service was good. Could have been faster but they told me right off the bat it would take 6 weeks it came back in just over 4 weeks. I will post a report on their customer service.

[warboar_21]

NVScouter I have the Lee 450g mold and have cast several up and mine is throwing boolits at .457". I have sized them down to .452" and paper patched them and i'm just waiting on my Rio Grande to arrive to test them out. I will let you know if they feed in my rifle or not by next week. The scope arrives on monday and the rifle should arrive on wednesday.

[NVScouter]

Fantastic!

I cant wait to see your results.


NVScouter I have the Lee 450g mold and have cast several up and mine is throwing boolits at .457". I have sized them down to .452" and paper patched them and i'm just waiting on my Rio Grande to arrive to test them out. I will let you know if they feed in my rifle or not by next week. The scope arrives on monday and the rifle should arrive on wednesday.

[pricedo]

Do they warranty wood to metal fit???

I own 4 Rossi rifles (92/357, 92/44, 92/454, Rio Grande 30-30) & 2 Remlins (1895G, 1895GS) & the quality is on par............nowhere near the standard of the old JM Marlins but they can be turned into decent guns with some patience and know how, a few tools & a little elbow grease.
The prices on the Rossis have gone up and are close to the 1895 Remlins.
They ranged from rough to fair NIB but they all cycle & shoot good now after being stripped down, cleaned, deburred/polished & oiled.
6 of one, half dozen of the other.
Just bought a NIB New Haven made Winchester (1973 model 94 Yellow Boy Indian Head Commemorative) in 30-30 for $550 that would put them both (Remlin & Ross) to shame.

[pricedo]

I bought a Remlin 45-70 back in Dec. I'll never buy another Marlin/Remlin "new" again.
Started out the loading gate was so stiff, it was a real chore gettting it loaded, then there was burrs so bad on it, that when loading it up, it would gall the brass, then the extractor had burrs that was taking chunks out of the case rim.
And on top of that the action when cycling has a gratey feel and the trigger is about 8.5lbs
It's at the gunsmiths now....paying for QC is not what I feel I should have to do, once they've left the factory.

Once Cerberus/Remington got their hands on Marlin quality control went for a dump. Rossi & quality control never belonged in the same sentence. Rossi was consistent in that regard over the span of 40 years but the Brazil made rifles could be cleaned up & tuned-up to be pretty decent shooters. When Remington took over Marlin dropped down to join Rossi in the quality control cellar.

If you're a bit handy with tools it's easy to clean up the Remlins/Rossis to be fairly decent shooters. The Rossi Rio Grande like the Remlin 1895 are based on the Marlin 336 action and are thus easy to strip apart and work on.

[NVScouter]

A tip for future owners. If your Rio Grande feels clunky on closing clean this little detent on the underside of the lever. Mine was jammed with packing grease and I thought the action was about frozen up. I also smoothed it abit after the third cleaning with a stone and its smooth as can be now!

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f10/NVScouter/44E4AE47-8187-4212-A8B3-9B6E9A4861A3-2892-00000476FAD11507.jpg (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/NVScouter/media/44E4AE47-8187-4212-A8B3-9B6E9A4861A3-2892-00000476FAD11507.jpg.html)

[22lover]

I wish I could find a mould in stock to feed this thing. Love it so far!

[NVScouter]

So I'm at the LEE 340g over 48g of IMR 3031. I got more and went to the range and found out that alloy is a big factor in mine.

I developed my load using as cast .458 air cooled wheel weights for about 1" at 100y. I used the alloy I was casting some 30-06 harder than #2, water quenched and went to 5" groups! I thought something was wrong until I found I had about 9 old bullets with the new powder and they went right into center 1" groups.

The rifling is shallow so a good soft alloy is the ticket. MidwayUSA had the LEE 450 in stock after another member confirmed it feeds/chambers in the Rio Grande ordered one.

[NVScouter]

I wish I could find a mould in stock to feed this thing. Love it so far!

I just ordered two back ordered mold from Midway and they both shipped within 4 days FYI.

[NVScouter]

Well I did the full break down last night and wish I did it earlier. I put a coat of Urithane on the wood since while shooting the roughness would grab and remove beard stubble...ouch!

Reassmebly was almost impossible since the front barrel band's cap screw was crooked throwing off everything else down the line. The indent to the barrel is off to the side pushing the tube over, the forarm band was then tapped diagonaly instead of horizontaly and really fits like ****.

I also noticed that the cut for the front band in the tube/barrel was fine, however the cut for the forarm band is very deep into the barrel. I'm estimating the cut to be about 2/3-3/4 through the outerwall of the barrel. This cannot be to spec so I'm worried about a blow out at that point.

So off to Rossi it goes!

[Ed in North Texas]

Well I've only owned 2 red dots and do not see any advantage over iron sites. By the time a target gets too small compared to the iron site a red dot's dot is also too big. Then add the battery powered objective and I just can't see any advantage.

Iron sites are fine for most folks at 50/75/100/150y. But past that usually have too much meat compared to target size to be accurate. Scopes are great for load development and extended shooting.

I do think they ruin the lines and complicate a simple effective design. I may pull mine off when I'm done...we"ll see.

When you can't see the open iron sights because of age related eyesight issues, you might find your experience differs. Not a problem for me if I'm using aperture rears. As a matter of fact, I don't own any Red Dot sights, but do own scopes, aperture sights and a Merit Disc.

[Ed in North Texas]

Can't compare the Rossi 92 to the Rio Grande models at all. Now the Rio Grande break down the same as the Marlin 336 which is pretty easy so they are also just as easy to clean as a marlin period. The Rossi 92 is based on a Winchester 1892 rifle with a stronger design which makes it one if not the strongest gun in its class.



Exactly. The 92 is a updated copy of the Winchester 1892 and, like the Winchester, was designed to be a pistol caliber rifle. Whether it is a stronger rifle than the Marlin 1894s, I don't know, but either one is plenty strong for the calibers chambered at the factory.

[warboar_21]

Sorry to hear your Rio is giving you problems NVScouter. Mine has been flawless. I was going to take it to the range today but woke up to 20+ mph winds and didn't see the point in trying to shoot in it. I am also going to refinish the stock since I am just not a fan of the cheap shoe polish stain they use. I stripped, sanded, and re stained my M92 last month. Put the final coat of tru oil on it about two weeks ago and it really looks sharp. I plan to do the same thing with my Rio Grande.

[Ed in North Texas]

Once Cerberus/Remington got their hands on Marlin quality control went for a dump. Rossi & quality control never belonged in the same sentence. Rossi was consistent in that regard over the span of 40 years but the Brazil made rifles could be cleaned up & tuned-up to be pretty decent shooters. When Remington took over Marlin dropped down to join Rossi in the quality control cellar.

If you're a bit handy with tools it's easy to clean up the Remlins/Rossis to be fairly decent shooters. The Rossi Rio Grande like the Remlin 1895 are based on the Marlin 336 action and are thus easy to strip apart and work on.

How many of the new Marlins did you examine before you posted this? I tend to agree with Nekshot, if there are all these horrible Marlins around, why don't we see them up for sale? I know Remington had problems after the move, but the Marlins made in CT before the move weren't exactly error free either. I think it doesn't matter what company's firearms, and without considering changes in manufacturing methods (e.g. investment casting, CNC machines, etc.), if it was made in the 50s or before it will have been made by workers who paid more attention to doing a good job than one made in the 70s or later. Just my opinion and worth what you paid for it.

[NVScouter]

Thanks I got that 450g in and WOW thats a big boolit. Hard to keep it up to temp but not frosting. Shiny they are .457 frosty they are .455 so I'll lap it out for sure.

When I talked to Rossi my serial number comes out to MFG in November 2011 so basicly one of the first ones. I'm also guessing it was made on a Monday since the fitting is terrible compared to my 92. I also confirmed that some things are early production like the plastic tube follower. Now its up to Rossi to make it right. I'd just take care of it myself if it wasnt for that cut in the barrel, too deep to be safe.


Sorry to hear your Rio is giving you problems NVScouter. Mine has been flawless. I was going to take it to the range today but woke up to 20+ mph winds and didn't see the point in trying to shoot in it. I am also going to refinish the stock since I am just not a fan of the cheap shoe polish stain they use. I stripped, sanded, and re stained my M92 last month. Put the final coat of tru oil on it about two weeks ago and it really looks sharp. I plan to do the same thing with my Rio Grande.

[warboar_21]

I need to lap my mold and keep putting it off. I tried pressure pouring yesterday and still had no luck with better fill out. Between pressure pouring and using a ladle they still drop at .457". I bought a 459-405HB mold from Midway and it arrived the other day and I was able to cast a few with it twice now. Both times it has dropped bullets at .460" with 50/50 range scrap/WW or straight WW. It's a single cavity and is slow going but it looks like it's going to be a great bullet. I hope to get some loaded up soon and shoot them at the range and see how they do as well.

[CPL Lou]

Nekshot and Ed, here is a posting I made concerning a Remlin 1895G that I had bought:
http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/45-70-govt/115763-attn-1895-owners-please-read-4.html
Proof enough for me to use caution when buying a new rifle in 45-70 from Remlin.
I have purchased another to replace the one I had with the cracked receiver, but I made sure I inspected the new rifle before I used it !
Not all Remlins are this bad but buyers need to be aware that this problem does exist and that inspection of the receivers on ALL 1895's should be done before firing.
By the way, my replacement 1895G was also a NIB Remlin and there was nothing wrong with it. Shoots great !

CPL Lou

[NVScouter]

When I cast my first 450g boolits I carried one in my pocket all nght chuckeling.....I really need to find something to hit with these!!!!!

8 weeks turn around time is no fun.

[warboar_21]

When those 450s hit my steel spinner it ripped it out of the ground with authority. I have shot that thing with my .308 and jacketed and it didn't rip it from the ground like the 45-70 did. If I am lucky enough to draw an elk tag this year I think the 45-70 with these 450gr boolits is going to be at the top of my list for any sort of Timber or close cover hunting.

[Clay M]

I like the Guide rifles.I have two of them in .45/70 .They make good saddle guns and are handy to carry in the woods.That is what I still hunt with here in Ga.

[slohunter]

I don't know. My 3 Lever Marlins, 1970's, are ten times the rifles of the new ones. What happen?