Gas checks and Minies

[jonk]

I read in another post that use of a cardboard over powder wad helps with accuracy. Ditto on lube in the base of a Minie.

Now hang on. I was under the impression that a minie worked best when gas expanded into the cavity, sealing the skirt out to the bore. I can buy that crisco or bore butter wouldn't adversely affect this as the hot gas can easily compress and or/move the grease, but a cardboard wad? Wouldn't that interfere with the gas getting to the base of the projectile?

[felix]

The amount of base expansion of any projectile is relative to the factors you already know, and how much is too much depends on those factors. There is no real way to answer your questions without experimenting with what you have and your accuracy expectations at a certain range. ... felix

[Rattus58]

If crisco pushes the skirts out and a wad cuts the gas, how ins gods green earth is cancelling one out over the other helping any... must be your question.. :)

Felix I think answered it best... you have to experiment, which is what I also suggested he try... its just I'm more inclined to put a nickel or two up on the result...

I use soft lead for all my bullets, and minies with lube in them expand quite well and I get good accuracy from them. However with undersized bullets I have had best luck in improving accuracy with a wad.

Now... when the gun goes off, the charge itself will push the bullet, wad and all, forward against a sitting bullet. This has to have a squishing effect by itself, and the heavier lube weight probably encourages this. Does the wad interfere with this process, yes I believe it probably does to an extent, but everything else concerned I think still manages to improve obturation over no lube in the base even with the wad. Soft lead makes this all the more doable.

However, the gentleman in the next thread or two down, is using wheelweights. I'm of the opinion that this is going to inhibit expansion of the skirt and bullet some and would definitely benefit by the crisco. If this bullet doesn't expand well, its not going to shoot well, and if gasses overrun the bullet, they'll sear the lead (depending upon charge) so blocking the gasses as much as you can shouldn't hurt, and still would help swell the bullet would be my guess.

Aloha... :cool:

[yeahbub]

When I was in the USAF, some friends and I experimented with a .58 cal 2-band Musketoon with a number of projectile types, including trying over-the-powder card wads. When fired, the wad will fiercely constipate the minie, if not unevenly deform the skirt. There were spectacular flyers on occasion, so that combination was quickly abandoned in favor of minies without wads, the way they were intended (we were comlete novices to BP and full of brilliant ideas, can ya tell?). Maxi's weren't anything to write home about either, even though, with a flat base, the card wad wasn't a bad idea. Until someone ventured to cloth-patch the base driving band like a round ball. This was an obvious improvement and considerably reduced group size (and probably gas cutting) by a good bit. I believe the owner went deer hunting with it, but we never fleshed it out for conclusive results as to what worked and why. That had to do with being fairly beaten up by the end of the day with heavy loads and heavy projectiles.

[Buckshot]

.................A cardwad under a Minie' will have about as much a negative effect upon the base expanding as would tossing a couch cushion between 2 head on freight trains. Yet it may stick in the base cavity (and maybe unevenly????) and as such have an effect upon the Minie's flight from one shot to the next.

The first British Minie' bullets had a boxwood cone in the base. The idea being it would be driven forward by the powder's explosion to aid in the base's expansion. A friend of mine used the top (fat) end of golf tee's. I never saw any big positive change in his shooting of his M1855 Springfield.

Before Coyote's disappearance from the British Militaria's forum and his business, he'd offered a paddle mould to form base plugs from automotive body filler.

....................Buckshot

[Rattus58]

I used to actually stick the wads to the base of bullets with little suffering. While its true I don't usually use wads with the minie, I have with the .454 with no real one way or the other... it didn't improve anything... didn't hurt anything either... with my .451's after about 70 grains with all molds of the minie variety and less powder with one and one I sent away to Mr. Underclocked that wouldn't keep a bullet on a sheet of freezer paper for me almost if I stuck the barrel in it, I've found wads have been more of a help.

In this case, I'm suggesting, you remember, a wad of groove to groove diameter, which is what I use in my guns with EXCELLENT results. Load the powder, load the wad, then load the bullet after tamping the wad two or three times each time you load.

Now you guys got me itchin to go out to the range with my 58 and try the wad with that and the minie. I use wads with my 578 round balls with no problems, but now look what you've done.... :)

By the way... another reason some say to use a wad with a minie is to keep the lube from spoiling the powder.... I don't think it can make that much of a difference, especially on the range, but any excuse... :)

Need to go do some testing again... yup...


Aloha.... :cool: