.30-30 boolits Q

[sigshooter]

I just picked up a 30-30 lever carbine, and I would like to cast for it.

The question that I have is regarding the speed of the bullet, does it require the use of gas checks?

I have limited equipment, and no way to lube into the rings that I know of, I have been using paste wax for my .45 ACP and it seems to work ok, but the 30-30 is around double the speed.

Any tips or suggestions would be appreciated.

Regards,
SIG

[HangFireW8]

I just picked up a 30-30 lever carbine, and I would like to cast for it.

The question that I have is regarding the speed of the bullet, does it require the use of gas checks?

I have limited equipment, and no way to lube into the rings that I know of, I have been using paste wax for my .45 ACP and it seems to work ok, but the 30-30 is around double the speed.

Any tips or suggestions would be appreciated.

Regards,
SIG

Sig,

Welcome to the forum...

Without knowing your exact alloy, mold, land/groove diameters, and lube, we can only speak in generalities and rules of thumb... so here goes!

You should be able to get good performance out of plain base boolits up to 1600, maybe 1800 fps. Beyond that it's real hard work to do much more without gas checks.

If you're just getting started with rifle, you'll want to stack the odds in your favor by using a quality well-known lube. If you don't want to invest in a lube-sizer you can try pan lubing.

Could you tell us what mold you have or like, what your velocity and accuracy goals are, and what is the intended usage?

HF

[Lizard333]

Look into a 311041 Lyman mold. Probly one of the best cast boolits for the 30-30. I cast mine with a ratio of 9 pounds of COWW to 1 pound of Lino. I then water drop and gas check with carnuba red lube. I push these to 2060 FPS using H335.

My boolits out of my mold come in around 180 grains.

[GP100man]

Is it a Marlin Micro Grooved Barrel or regular rifling ??

I have a Marlin & shoot the biggest boolit I can chamber in it ,which is a ..3105" reliably & can push em purty hard with 14bhn 311041s GCed with aluminum Cs. So far 17-1900 fps has been uneventful with IMR4198
gonna switch to 3031 & see what 2k does.

[softpoint]

RCBS 180 flat point is an outstanding mold, too. And you can get a Lee push through sizer for cheap, and pan lube.

[Pilgrim]

Sig -You can "pan lube" but cannot install crimp on GC's lubing that way. Check Lee product lists for pan lubing stuff. In addition, I seem to recall they had a push thru die for sizing and I suspect you could drive the boolit thru the die setting a Hornady style GC. Lyman GC's are not crimped on and can be used without a sizing die by simply pressing the boolit base down onto the GC. IMHO pan lubing is a major pain in the butt, as well as messy. At least it was for me. Save money for a sizer first. That one item will make your cb experiences much better. Watch for one on ebay and/or other auction sites. Watch the swap/sell sites on/in this forum for casting stuff.
After the sizer you want an electric furnace. Any heat source that will melt lead is OK to start. Dipper pouring
lead into a boolit mould is relatively easy and inexpensive.

For low boolit velocities (roughly less than 1200 to 1400 fps YMMV) you don't necessarily need a GC. You can load these low velocities in your .30-30 using your pistol powders and forget about using a GC. Be aware that boolits designed for a GC sometimes give problems (accuracy and/or leading) if you use it sans GC. If you want to use the full potential of your .30-30, you will need a GC boolit. Lots of good advice can be found via the "stickies" on this site. I suggest you spend some time reading these and developing a game plan for the path forward. Doing this will most likely help you keep your costs down, at least in the near term !

[462]

Lyman's 311291 is an excellent multi-purpose boolit, and is designed for tube magazines.

I use a Lyman 4500, so will pass on your lubing questions.

[sthwestvictoria]

I cast the Lee 309-150-FPGC and the 309-170-FP GC from WW, clip the GC on with finger pressure, pan lube using this method:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?119056-So-you-can-t-afford-one
Then use the Lee .311 sizer to crimp on the GC and size the boolit (also neatens the lube in the grooves ready for loading).

My pan lube is Bee Wax, Petroleum Jelly, Lanolin (all cheap and easy to purchase locally), there are my pictures here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?191745-A-bit-overwhelmed-looking-for-a-good-and-simple-pan-lube-for-44-250-k

For the Lee TL314-90-SWC I use straight Lee Liquid Alox or the recluse 45/45/10 Tumble lube made easy method:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?67654-Tumble-Lubing-Made-Easy-amp-Mess-Free

[Fishman]

Sthwestvictoria gives some great advice but you should consider the lee tumble lube as an alternative to pan lube even for gas checked designs. I've shot a lot of lee 170 gr fp tumble lubed with the gas check installed by a lee push through sizer. The .311 sizer is a good choice.

[geargnasher]

I just picked up a 30-30 lever carbine, and I would like to cast for it.

The question that I have is regarding the speed of the bullet, does it require the use of gas checks?

I have limited equipment, and no way to lube into the rings that I know of, I have been using paste wax for my .45 ACP and it seems to work ok, but the 30-30 is around double the speed.

Any tips or suggestions would be appreciated.

Regards,
SIG

If you stay with gallery loads in the 800-1400fps arena, you shouldn't need gas checks. My .30-30 has a very worn and sloppy throat and always left a lot of heavy lead deposits in the first inch or two of the bore ahead of the chamber due to the gas leaks before the boolit finally got fully engraved and sealed. My fix for the gallery loads was to make paper gas checks for them, then I could shoot them to over 1700 fps without leading, but accuracy wasn't as good as with gas checks.

My advice, considering the difficulty of getting anything reloading-related right now, is to contact Buckshot on the forum here and hire him to make you a "push through" sizer die about .311" that you can use on your reloading press (like the Lee Precision ones, or get a Lee .311" if you can find one in stock somewhere), and be on the hunt for gas checks. If you get the Lee sizer kit, it will come with a bottle of liquid Alox lube, which can be used as-is (shudder!) or you can make a much better mix of it called 45/45/10, there's a "sticky" thread by Recluse in the lube forum that explains in painstaking detail how to make and apply the lube. With the push-through sizer die you can size your boolits and crimp on the gas checks, and the tumble-lube can be applied first coat before checking/sizing, and second coat afterwards. That will get you into the high-teens velocity-wise with pretty good accuracy.

You can also "pan lube" and use a "cake cutter" made from a fired case to get conventional lube into the grooves, but you'll need some sort of sizer to crimp the checks on anyway. More info on pan lubing is available if you're interested.

If you can't find gas checks, you can make your own with some of the tools that a few custom makers are offering for sale, but there's a learning curve, material acquisition/experimentation, and significant investment involved. A better route, perhaps, would be to purchase gas checks from Blammer here, check out his vendor page in the vendor-sponsor section for details on availability and how to buy, please do a lot of reading of his detailed buying instructions before bugging him through private message though, he explains everything in his sales thread. If you can find and afford Hornady checks, that's a good way to go although sometimes if the gas check shank is especially tight on your particular mould the checks Blammer sells go on a lot more easily in a push-through-type, press-mounted sizing die.

First thing to do to that rifle, though, is to get ALL, and I do mean ALL of the copper fouling out of it before shooting cast, or you likely will be in for a lot of headaches. Then you can try shooting very mild loads with either plain-based or un-checked boolits through the gun lubed either with liquid tumble-type lube or pan lube to see how they do, who knows, you might not have any throat leading issues to worry about. It's a place to start, anyway.

Gear

[jlchucker]

Sig -You can "pan lube" but cannot install crimp on GC's lubing that way. Check Lee product lists for pan lubing stuff. In addition, I seem to recall they had a push thru die for sizing and I suspect you could drive the boolit thru the die setting a Hornady style GC. Lyman GC's are not crimped on and can be used without a sizing die by simply pressing the boolit base down onto the GC. IMHO pan lubing is a major pain in the butt, as well as messy. At least it was for me. Save money for a sizer first. That one item will make your cb experiences much better. Watch for one on ebay and/or other auction sites. Watch the swap/sell sites on/in this forum for casting stuff.
After the sizer you want an electric furnace. Any heat source that will melt lead is OK to start. Dipper pouring
lead into a boolit mould is relatively easy and inexpensive.

For low boolit velocities (roughly less than 1200 to 1400 fps YMMV) you don't necessarily need a GC. You can load these low velocities in your .30-30 using your pistol powders and forget about using a GC. Be aware that boolits designed for a GC sometimes give problems (accuracy and/or leading) if you use it sans GC. If you want to use the full potential of your .30-30, you will need a GC boolit. Lots of good advice can be found via the "stickies" on this site. I suggest you spend some time reading these and developing a game plan for the path forward. Doing this will most likely help you keep your costs down, at least in the near term !

I kinda agree about pan lubing being messy. But if you want to use good lubes, or even the tumble-lube technique, and are on a budget, you might try buying your lube from LS Stuff. They are members of this website, and their logo is at the bottom of the page on this website, and not only are their lubes excellent, but a lot less expensive than those you'll find that are offered by the mold companies. LS Stuff is a family owned business and are great people to do business with.

[detox]

Lyman's 4th edition Cast Bullet Handbook states rifles with Micro-Groove rifling should keep velocities below 1600 fps for best accuracy. They also recommend a hard alloy like #2 or Linotype for best results. Recommended powders for 30-30 Winchester are Reloader #7, 5744, IMR 4198 (IMR 4198, 18 grains giving best accuracy @ 1602 fps). Manual also states rifle bullets using gas checks shoot more accurate. All boolits tested were sized to .308". Lyman's gas checked #311041 works verygood.

Purchase the LEE .308 sizer kit (comes with Alox lube) and see if that size works. If not ,you can hone the sizing die out larger using 600 grit sandpaper and dowel. Better yet, slug your bore to get bore size.

Tumble lube boolits in clear zip-loc baggie using warmed up Lee alox. To help mix alox, I put a lead boolit in bottle then shake.

[geargnasher]

Detox, I know you're just trying to help here, but how much of what you have regurgitated from Lyman #4 (which is taken from #3 which is taken from 50-year-old wive's tales) have you actually tested yourself? Reason I ask is that there are a lot of things in your post that are likely to cause a lot of grief unless the OP has an exceptional rifle.

Gear

[mpmarty]

I use plain base boolits exclusively and load my 30 cal rifles to 2000 fps or more with no leading. In the past this was done with the 50/50 LLA/JPW tumble lube but I am now starting to use a Lyman 45 lube sizer and BAC lube.

[sigshooter]

Wow Thanks for all the input, you guys have given me so much to think about and research, I feel like I am learning a new language...wait a minute, maybe I am.

HangFireW8, I do not yet have a mold for anything in this caliber, and the intention is as a range blaster, and up to 100 yd deer slayer. The lead that I have been using for my .45 is from some sort of multi-character type set, and seems to be VERY hard.

Lizard333 All I have is this fairly unknownd material, and I am not savy enough yet to start alloying, I hioe I can learn amd progress. I have been scouring for WW, but don't have enough to smelt yet

GP100man This is a conventionally rifled Winchester 94 with a clean and fairly sharp bore.

mpmarty this is back to the "new language" I am pretty sure that JPW is Johnson's past wax ( what I am using currently for the .45) please, what is LLA?

I just know I am going to be usless at work tomorrow for all the new stuff to learn. I love it though.

Thanks and best regards,
SIG

[whisler]

LLA = Lee Liquid Alox. Comes with Lee push through sizer die sets.

[detox]

Detox, I know you're just trying to help here, but how much of what you have regurgitated from Lyman #4 (which is taken from #3 which is taken from 50-year-old wive's tales) have you actually tested yourself? Reason I ask is that there are a lot of things in your post that are likely to cause a lot of grief unless the OP has an exceptional rifle.

Gear

12,110 posts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When do you find time to shoot? You have no life.

[HangFireW8]

12,110 posts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When do you find time to shoot? You have no life.

Gear has enough time to shoot a LOT. Read the search for the perfect lube thread if you doubt.

As for Lyman, they were trying to compensate for insufficient boolit size with hardness. I exceeded 1600fps with good accuracy in my MG on the first try using the boards advice, not Lymans.

[rintinglen]

I strongly urge you to look for a Lee .311 or .310 sizer kit.

It screws into your press, so you don't have to buy a lubrisizer.
It comes with a bottle of Lee Liquid Alox, which works pretty well as a lube, certainly adequate for 30-30 loads.
It is relatively cheap--the whole kit is less than a sizing die alone for a lubrisizer, usually 20-25 dollars delivered.

You will be hard pressed to exceed 1600 fps without gas checks, which right now are only slightly scarcer than honest politicians, but you can have a lot of fun in the 1300-1500 fps range. A lightweight .311 boolit, plain based over 8.0 grains of Unique, Herco, or Green Dot makes for a lot of fun plinking. I have had excellent results with the Lyman 311-245, and the RCBS 32-85 for this use. Lee has a 311-93 1r that would work for this also. When you get a few more bucks in hand, you can get a heavier gas checked design for hunting purposes. I favor the RCBS 30-180 FN for that, but the 311-041 from Lyman, or either of the afore mentioned Lee Designs, either the 309-150 FN or the 170 FN would work as well. The 30-30 is one of the easiest rifles to cast for and get good results. Only the 45-70 is easier, IME.

[BeeMan]

12,110 posts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When do you find time to shoot? You have no life.

Detox,

I hope your post was said tongue in cheek. Gear knows what he is talking about, you can take that to the bank.

As for the post count, check out what he is doing on the Extreme Lube discussion.

BeeMan

[sigshooter]

So what you are telling me is that there are NO gaschecks to be had....

Thanks for the info,
SIG


You will be hard pressed to exceed 1600 fps without gas checks, which right now are only slightly scarcer than honest politicians,

[runfiverun]

I wouldn't say there isn't any gas checks available....but
I am down to about 1,500 22 cal checks and about 3,000 30 cal checks which is makng me rather nervous.
I ordered 10-k 30 cal, and 7-k 22 cal, this time last year.
and i'm not seeing that amount available right now

[geargnasher]

I strongly urge you to look for a Lee .311 or .310 sizer kit.

It screws into your press, so you don't have to buy a lubrisizer.
It comes with a bottle of Lee Liquid Alox, which works pretty well as a lube, certainly adequate for 30-30 loads.
It is relatively cheap--the whole kit is less than a sizing die alone for a lubrisizer, usually 20-25 dollars delivered.

You will be hard pressed to exceed 1600 fps without gas checks, which right now are only slightly scarcer than honest politicians, but you can have a lot of fun in the 1300-1500 fps range. A lightweight .311 boolit, plain based over 8.0 grains of Unique, Herco, or Green Dot makes for a lot of fun plinking. I have had excellent results with the Lyman 311-245, and the RCBS 32-85 for this use. Lee has a 311-93 1r that would work for this also. When you get a few more bucks in hand, you can get a heavier gas checked design for hunting purposes. I favor the RCBS 30-180 FN for that, but the 311-041 from Lyman, or either of the afore mentioned Lee Designs, either the 309-150 FN or the 170 FN would work as well. The 30-30 is one of the easiest rifles to cast for and get good results. Only the 45-70 is easier, IME.

Now THERE'S some solid, real-world advice!

If you have throat leading, a half-grain of Dacron lofted between the pistol powder and boolit base sometimes fixes it, or a manilla folder gas check cut out with a .38 Anything case and formed in a .311 H&I die with any .30 caliber top punch and the check seater in place will do. I got to liking Longshot for cream puff loads around 1500 fps with the folder checks, no filler required. Had a pound that I didn't use for much else but .40 S&W. Anything from Longshot to Bullseye works fine for the really light .30-30 loads.

Gear

[Alan in Vermont]

but how much of what you have regurgitated from Lyman #4 (which is taken from #3 which is taken from 50-year-old wive's tales)

Gear

It's nice to see someone else shares that opinion of the latest Lyman babble book. About the only nice thing I find in it is that they are using other makers mold designs in their data. The flip side of that is that they don't list any of theirs except for current production. Apparently when they dropped production all casters must have scrapped those molds so that none of them are still out there, being passed on to new casters who could use data for them. They already had the data from earlier editions of their manuals. Just about the whole #4 is nothing but old data they used, as-is, again. Doesn't seem like it would have cost that much to put it between the new covers.

[Lead Fred]

No gas checks? We never run out with Pat Martins GC maker. Combined with a Ranch Dog 30-30 mold, zoom zoom.

Ive gotten these to 2200fps easy, but shoot them at 1600fps for maximum penatration. 1450 would be better, but the loss of range isnt worth it.

Ive shot plain base lots, up to 1750fps with zero leading. Its all in the fit & lube.