LNL - Having second thoughts...

[Racingsnake]

...AFTER having bought the press.

Did as much research as I could here and on the S&W forum and decided the LNL AP fitted by needs (200 rounds per week) and budget - I haven't set it up yet but started reading some more threads to get aquainted with the machine while on vacation and came across a lot of negative reports particularly on the priming system but also on shell plate timing.

I bought it to simplify my life and allow me to shoot more. I don't want to spend time'tweaking' things every reloading session.

I've loaded on a single stage for over 20 years so ease of use and simplicity are important to me. I'd appreciate some honest opinions from Hornady LNL users before I decide to keep this machine or go for something like the Lee Turret. I love reloading but my time is limited and I'm no good at tinkering with troubled machines.

Thanks, Racingsnake

[TheCelt]

Racingsnake,

I have two single stage special purpose presses and two progressives, a Dillon 650 and a Hornady LNL AP. I love my Dillon but to be honest lately I have used the LNL AP much more. The reason is I am loading 5 calibers on a regular basis an the LNL AP has a much faster set-up time.

Like all progressives the LNL AP has a few quirks. Timing is not one of them, once it's set you're good to go for a long time. By the time anything wears to the point that the timing has to be adjusted you'll be very familiar with the machine and it won't be a problem.

The primer system just has to be paid attention to. It actually works quite well (not as well as the Dillon but I like it). The problem comes from the fact that it is a "closed" underslung anvil. If any debri finds its way into the primer ram fixture it will (and does) prevent the primer ram from retracting. This essentially locks up the shell plate and if you are smoking on the press you'll bend the shuttle guide rod and probably break the rod holder before you realize what's going on. Hornady has a fix to prevent rod and holder damage but you have to be aware of what is happening so you can fix it. The fix is quite simple, raise the shellplate, unscrew the primer ram, hold it open manually with your fingers and blast it with a little compressed air. You're good to go then.

I've loaded well over 50,000 rounds on the LNL AP and can tell you without hesitation that it is a fine progressive press.

[phil3333]

give it some time,like you I started reloading over 20 years ago on a rockchucker I bought a xl650
a couple years ago and at first I thought it was a piece of tinkerers junk but after awhile I got
used to the little nuances and now I love it

[bbqncigars]

I keep a small brush handy just to clean any crud from the shell plate. Good illumination and an ergo handle are also handy. I didn't have to do any tweaks to get mine running, just clean it and lube it. Be careful of the case retaining spring and you won't need a replacement (but it's good to have one on hand).

[geargnasher]

How about setting it up first, learning how to use it, and then giving us some first-hand thoughts? Believe it or not, a lot of people don't care for Dillon presses. Fault can be found with anything.

Gear

[40Super]

The biggest issue with timing that I've heard is that when setting the pawls up to advance each time, you have to set it up at the speed your going to pull the handle. If you go real slow when tweaking the timing and then just start cranking away for loading, it tends to overshoot the advance. When it is in time there are no problems and many are setup fine from the factory. Rightfully you should never break any part of any press unless your slamming the handle with no reguards to whats going on, then all presses will break. I hate priming on any press so I've always hand primed, never even set my system up to know how it works. Just by looking at it I will say to take some fine sandpaper and smooth every part out good(even wax it like your tablesaw, or downhill ski's), deburr all holes and make sure nothing can cause drag.
I have the bushing adaptor for my Rock Chucker and swap any dies back and forth between it and the LNL quickly and without adjusting, a great option.

[John Allen]

I have had both over the years. I like the lock n load. The primer situation is easily handled by leaving the allen key a little loose. Somewhere on youtube there is a video of simple fixes.

[Huskerguy]

I have had the LNL for several months now and am finally getting enough time to work with it and learn all of the in's and outs. Most everything above is true. The primer system works fine but you have to clean the shuttle up to start with and keep everything clean after that. Little shavings from lead bullets, powder, anything at all will lock it up. I had a very slight timing issue that took about an 1/8 of a turn to fix and something the guy from Hornady customer service said made perfectly good sense. He said to pull the handle the same every time. After you use it a while you will understand why he says that. What I like about he LNL is how quickly and inexpensively I can go from one caliber to another.

[Muddydogs]

Set it up and start reloading. 2 years ago when I first got my LnL AP I had to adjust the timing and have not touched them since and I have over 10000 rounds loaded. Never messed with the priming system just put it together and started reloading. Just today I switched from small primer to large primer, set up my 45 dies (first time loading 45 on the LnL), loaded 500 cast 45's, set up a couple new 44 dies, loaded 500 44 cast, switched back to small primer, adjusted 38 dies to load 105 grain cast and loaded up 30 test loads with this new 105 grainer. Wanted the press set for small primer so after I test the 38's I can go into production of them.

If you are short on time and want to make more rounds then you can with a single stage then you are on the right track, I too loaded on a Rock Chucker for 20 + years and kinda got out of reloading because I could blow 2 hours of work in 20 minutes. Decided to get a progressive, picked the LnL AP and now i'm cranking out the rounds. I don't load fast on my LnL but just nice and steady.

I have not had trouble with the timing if I am pulling the handle at different speeds, just today the 45 and 38 cases loaded great and I moved right along but the 44 cases would sometimes hit the RCBS sizing die on the way in and need a nudge with the finger to get them in strait so I had to slow down the press stroke while loading 44's so I didn't ding up the case mouths.

As for the priming system what can I say, I don't wax or lube anything, didn't sand or ream anything, I just fill the tube and prime. Ya once about every 1000 rounds or so I might get some powder, dirt or brass in the system that jams things up put all it takes to clean it out is a little brushing while holding back the primer shuttle.

One thing you have to remember is people get these presses and think they are going to set them up and they will magically turn out ammo, when the slightest thing goes wrong the first thing they do is get on the internet and complain that its the machines fault when 9 times out of 10 its the operators fault but in this day and age of blame everyone but yourself what do you expect.

I would say at 200 rounds a week you will get bored in a hurry. I can load 200 rounds in a couple hours with a primer size switch, adjusting the powder drop and setting up the seater die for a new bullet. If the press is already set and all I have to do is add primers and powder 200 is an hour job at best.

Here is an old pic for your viewing pleasure complete with the $28.00 bullet feeder.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k256/muddydogs/Weapons/100_2937.jpg

[Racingsnake]

Thanks for your opinions guys. Gear has a particularly good point on the blue presses - perhaps they are a bit better in certain area but I guess no product is completely without fault.

I'm back home today from vacation and going to open up the LNL box...

Best regards and thanks again. Racingsnake

[Travtastik]

I have had my LnL for a few month and love. I had a problem with my cases hitting the sides of the decapping die and I had to I slow and nudge the case in. I called Hornady and they walked me through some test and then sent me a new shell plate and I have been great ever since. I have had no issues with timing or the primer system so far.

[dromia]

I have had a LnL AP since they came out and it is a fine press that works just fine.

Progressives are not single stages and need a more attentive approach to their operation, there is a lot going on with each pull of the handle and it all needs to work together so set up time is crucial. Once it is running then just keep it clean, don't short stroke and don't force anything and all will be well. This applies to any progressive. The set up time is off set by the efficiency of production, a loaded round at each pull of the handle, notice I didn't say speed of production as running a progressive fast is another recipe for disaster.

These presses have a greater learning curve but once mastered then the do what they say, like most things worthwhile the more you put in the more you get out.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive got 3 lnls. I dont own a 650 but have loaded a ton of ammo on them. In my opinion the 650 is hands down more reliable, especially if your running a case feeder on both. the 650 is kind of awkward to run without a case feeder though. So if i wanted to use a case feeder id take a 650 hands down and if i didnt want a case feeder id probably go with a lnl or a 550 (which is more reliable then either of the others) Both are good presses though for the most part. Far better then any of there other competition. the lnls do have timing issues you have to deal with and ive never seen a 650 out of time. the 650 is designed right out of the box for a case feeder and the lnl system is more of an add on afterthought and isnt as relible. Niether primer systems are a 100 percent reliable so ill give that one a toss up. That said i dont think theres a progressive made that has a primer system that is absolutely flawless. But in ether case if you take the time to blow them off once in a while and do your best to keep them clean they work pretty well. My advice to anyone who wants a first progressive is to get a 550. Nothings more reliable and if your used to a single stage youll think your loading as fast as lightning. Even for an avid loader like me. If all i had was my 550 I could get along just fine.

[A pause for the COZ]

I have a RCBS press and a Hornady press. Both have quirks.
I do love the work area on the Hornady and the 1/2 advance up and down.
One feature I like on the RCBS ( piggy back) is the alignment pin that goes through the shell plate when its down.
It can not go out of alignment.

If Hornady could add some thing similar man that would solve the indexing 100%

[jmorris]

I have had a couple LNL's, a pre and post EZ ject. They both were capable of loading ammo without fuss. In the end they didn't do anything better than any of the Dillon's I have so I sold them. They don't resell like a Dillon but if you sell in this panic, I bet you get your money back.

[jeff423]

I had one for a month, sent it back, got a Dillon 650 and never looked back. Mine was an older one and had ejection problems and timing problems. It was very smooth though and I liked the "double action." At the time I think you had to use Hornady dies or it was only a 4 station press. All these problems may be fixed now. I've never had a problem with the Dillon that was the fault of the press. I couldn't say that about the Hornady.

Jeff

[Racenviper]

I have used my LNL for two years, I have not experience any timing issues. This year I have added the case feeder. I have used Hornady, Lee and RCBS dies without any problems. I would suggest cleaning the primer slide area under the shell plate every 1000 rounds. Other then this it has been a flawless press.

[clocker]

I read everything that I could find when getting into reloading over a year ago. There are way more Dillon fans out there, but each brand has pros and cons. I honestly don't think you could go wrong with either brand. My goals were to load for a wide variety of cartridges and if you do the math, Hornady really pulls ahead with cartridge changes costing half of Dillon.

You're going to do some tweaking with any press so be prepared to search, ask questions and spend a little time making it work for you. I've been really happy with the LNL AP and haven't had a reason to look back.

[Racingsnake]

You guys have given me a lot of good info to think about. Thank you.

[doulos]

Racingsnake
I dont even have a Hornady LNL. I have a Dillon 550. But if I were you Id set that baby up and start loading. You might love it . You might not. But you'll never know unless you try it. There is nothing out there that doesn't have a learning curve.

[TheDoctor]

Wanna tinker with a troubled machine, buy a Loadmaster! If you like, I will trade you mine, AND a pro 1000 for the LnL.

[Bonz]

95% of my Hornady LNL is finally at my house, just a few remaining pieces in transit. I can't wait to get this setup, I'm out of ammo (LOL). I have also purchased the Ergo Handle and LED lighting, hopefully will arrive in a few days. Just washed 1200 .357 cases and they are drying under the ceiling fan. I have all the parts for 38/357 so thats where I am going to start.

65285

and don't even think about it, I already applied for the patent on my Bullet Case Zen Garden...

[VHoward]

Bonz,
That must have been a zen moment. I don't think I would have the patience to stack them neatly like that. To me it looks like someone anxious to use a new toy....err machine. :-)

[A pause for the COZ]

I definitely do not have that kind of patience. I stuff my wet cases in a old sock and hang them over the side in the dryer. 20 minutes and all dry.
ofcourse when the wife is not home. ;)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Kelly2215/100_8732_zps48851cc2.jpg

[Bonz]

I definitely do not have that kind of patience. I stuff my wet cases in a old sock and hang them over the side in the dryer. 20 minutes and all dry.
ofcourse when the wife is not home. ;)

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Kelly2215/100_8732_zps48851cc2.jpg

LOL, my wife already threatened me and said that I better not get caught drying brass cases in the dryer... Honestly, I thought it was a great idea, after all, the dryer is gas not electric. What could go wrong...

[daniel lawecki]

Like Racenviper said I also use Hornady oneshot spray under shell plate and primer slider area.

[j_dude77]

I started with a LnL, but sold it and bought a 650. I like the 650 much better. There is not a huge difference in the cost of swapping calibers, when you take into account what you get with a caliber conversion. As stated earlier it seems the case feeder was an afterthought on the LnL.

I had problems with brass bouncing off the guide on the LnL and getting the guide to time correctly with the shellplate. That does not happen with the 650 since the case is cradled by the guide. The priming systems on both have their quirks. The LnL jams up from debris, while the 650 drops unused primers into a catch tray (which does not always catch them). I think the LnL powder measure is better than the 650 if you are loading multiple calibers. It is easier to adjust and setup. The LnL indexes the case 1/2 turn on handle pulls, which helps with preventing powder from spilling out of cases. The 650 can be modified to correct that problem, which is an easy fix. The other problem I had was the LnL bushings would loosen over time.

Either way, some love the LnL and others the 650. For me it is the 650.

[Reddirt204]

I've had my LnL now for about 8 months, just before all the panic buying set in.. I was upgrading from a Lyman turret, I have loaded about 4000 rounds now with it.
Sure it took a little time to set up and fine tune, so did the Lyman (my first ever press and learning reloading) I did go through and clean, check, polish/smooth over the parts and took my time figuring out how it all worked and meshed together.
Yep I've messed up a few cases, everyone my fault (not watching or forced it etc) I really like the fact I can change cals very simply, I reoad load 22 hornet,204R,223,243,303 and 9mm so I get used to swapping things around rather well.
I tend to de-cap first, then in to my S/S tumbler, if I'm loading 9mm I size and bell but prime off press with a Lee hand prime simply so I can inspect the cases and feel the primer pockets(culling out the few as I go) all my rifle cases I prime on the LnL.
The powder system I find very consistant when changing back and fourth, usually less than .2 of a grain difference.
I'm sure some will agree and others wont, just giving my thoughts

cheers

Reddirt204

[cowboy]

I had one for a month, sent it back, got a Dillon 650 and never looked back. Mine was an older one and had ejection problems and timing problems. It was very smooth though and I liked the "double action." At the time I think you had to use Hornady dies or it was only a 4 station press. All these problems may be fixed now. I've never had a problem with the Dillon that was the fault of the press. I couldn't say that about the Hornady.

Jeff

Don't know what Jeff is speaking of: How could it have both ejection and timing problems AND be very smooth? I started out with a Hornady Pro-Jector in the 1980's ( that was their progressive prior to the LNL presses ) Ended up with two of them, flat wore one out. That one was replaced around two years ago with a LNL EZ --Ject. Sent my older shellplates in to Hornady to have the modifications performed to use them on the LNL presses at modest cost. The Hornady Progresses have ALWAYS had five die stations ( one being used for the powder measure, as with EVERY comparable machine) . Had to use ONLY Hornady dies? News to me- MOST of mine are RCBS. Have one set of Lyman, one set of Redding ( though those are for .375 H&H, which I don't load on the LNL ). Guess I been sucessful doing it wrong since the 1980's.
OH , I live about a 25 min. drive from Dillon- they are nice folks, and carry many useful items from a great many suppliers, and they did just hand me a decapping pin to replace a broken one from my only Dillon resizing die.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Racingsnake,

Should you need pawl adjustments on the LNL, GO SLOW!!!!!!!!!!!

If you have turned the adjustment 1/4 turn you are already in trouble. Tiny adjustments are the rule here.

I am an old handloader with single stage presses, and yes there is a learning curve here!

Without question!

Because I don't like to wait and deal with issues, I do have a few wear parts on hand just in case. Haven't needed them, but then I'm still alive and who know, I may.
Some day.

However, and I use my LNL only for handgun ammo, just crusing along at a very relaxed pace I can turn out lots of ammo. Remember, once it is set up every stroke is a finished round.

Just get your self going in a nice smooth and repeatable pace, and remember NEVER EVER HALF STROKE THE PRESS!!!!!!!!!!!! If you do, something is fouled up, no primer OR???? and if you don't get things corrected right then, you will have a loaded round minus a primer, powder or both, or something else messed up. You shouldn't need to ask me how I know.

I can't answer the question as to Red or Blue being better, but I know that some folk have a thing about blue and for them, nothing else can or will ever be as good.

Can't say personally, but I'd guess that Lloyd Smale has a pretty good handle on the issue. He may be a bit crusty, but his comments most times are close to on.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Bonz]

Got everything setup on my Hornady LNL last night except for the bullet feeder. Just had to stop and load a box of 357 to make sure it was working ;-)

Case feeder was definately not cranking out cases... Tried adjusting the door and it really didn't seem to matter much. Only had about 50 357 cases in it, maybe that was the issue. Just seemed to take forever to fill the tube with cases.

Have to agree with Crusty Deary Ol'Coot on the slow & smooth approach. Too fast or jerky and the cases fall over, probably more so with the .357 because of the case length.

[40Super]

Where are the cases falling over? The spring around the shellplate will hold them when going around through the stations.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I finally reached the frustration point about the auto prime function on my Hornady, it has been removed from the press. All priming is now done off press with an LEE Handi Prime (old model) or a bench mounted RCBS prime unit.Robert

[Cane_man]

...AFTER having bought the press.

Did as much research as I could here and on the S&W forum and decided the LNL AP fitted by needs (200 rounds per week) and budget - I haven't set it up yet but started reading some more threads to get aquainted with the machine while on vacation and came across a lot of negative reports particularly on the priming system but also on shell plate timing.

I bought it to simplify my life and allow me to shoot more. I don't want to spend time'tweaking' things every reloading session.

I've loaded on a single stage for over 20 years so ease of use and simplicity are important to me. I'd appreciate some honest opinions from Hornady LNL users before I decide to keep this machine or go for something like the Lee Turret. I love reloading but my time is limited and I'm no good at tinkering with troubled machines.

Thanks, Racingsnake

the LnL is a great auto progressive but it usually does require tweaking during the break in period... once you push through this it will work like a dream... you will have to do some research and spend time with it at first, but it is worth it...

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Bonz,

Just a tip from Hornady. The retaining spring which holds the cases in the shell plate can be too tight.

If that is the situation, it may cause the case which is in position to go into the sizing die to tip out just enough to make the case mouth catch on the edge of the sizing die.

If this is not happening, don't worry about it, but if it does, as per Hornady's service tech, streach that spring out just a tiny bit until the problem is solved.

By the way, I dinged that spring early on and figured I was soon going to need a replacement. Bought some and there they set, still in the package and the old/origional spring is still doing just fine.

:lol: :lol: AS said earlier, just don't short or half stroke the LNL!! [smilie=b: :groner:

CDOC

[Case Stuffer]

IMO the closest to perfect progressive presses ever built were the Stars. I have a progressive I purchased in 1980 for .38/.357 only and have often wished I had the Star Universal also. The Start progressive with a Hulme case feeder can crank out over 1,000 rounds an hour if my wife keeps primer tubes and case bowl filled for me.

I load other handgun ammo on a CH Auto Champ (see avitar) that most new to reloading would likely give up on before they ever learned all of its' little quirks but I have loaded close to 1,000 rounds per hour on it ,again with wife filling primer tubes and keepin case hoper toped off. These days I am only loading for myself and being retired do most everything at a much slower pace but still can load 500 plus per hour really taking my time.

There is not a progressive reloading press made that I have not read both good and bad things about and most like 98% of the problems posted are operator related. As posted one should not expect to set up a progressive and crank out mass quanities of quality ammo from the get go.

[Heavy lead]

I have three LNL's, one set up for small primers only and load .357, .38's and .454's on it. Another is dedicated to the .45 acp, nothing else and another loads .41, .44, .45 and .475, this is the only one that had any issue and it was with the priming, on accident after much fiddling I found the answer, the primer tube when straight isn't centered in the blast tube around it, so when the plastic centering device that holds the primer tube centered in the blast tube was in, I had problems, take it out so it's "untorqued" so to speak it works wonderful.
I'd buy the LNL again, but then I've never used a Dillion.
I don't need progressives for the volume I shoot, but rather want them as my free time is very limited with close to a 60 hour workweek, they are nice and a good step up from the Lee turret's I had before.

[Racingsnake]

Guys thank you for the good information and excellent advice. That's why I love this forum.

As with Heavy Lead's post I only intend loading one calibre on the press and that is 38 Special. The reason for he progressive is also because my time is limited not because I need thousands of rounds a month.

Some people have experienced the LNL dies "popping" out of the press head. Any one see this?

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Snake,

No dies poping out here. If that is happening, there must be something wacko or broken as there is no twisting motion to unlock or unseat the dies during operation.

CDOC

[Racingsnake]

Best I stay away from You Tube and start loading.

Thanks guys ....

[40Super]

As in everything else, a good portion of negative comments comes from people who have never used or possibly even touched what they are complaining or cutting down, it not what they bought so it must have problems. I've read many posts about "issues" with stuff in a way that it's apparent they haven't even used one.

[chsparkman]

Some people have experienced the LNL dies "popping" out of the press head. Any one see this?

That has happened to me a couple of times but I just hadn't snugged them in well in the first place. Now I use the die wrench and make sure they're in good. No more problems with that. I love my LNL!

[Love Life]

Believe it or not, a lot of people don't care for Dillon presses. Fault can be found with anything.

Gear

Blasphamy

[bbqncigars]

It's not blasphemy, but my 550B could not load some rounds that my AP can. This was after following advice from Dillon tech support.

[Gliden07]

I have a LNL AP I got for Christmas. Since then I've loaded 1K of 9MM ammo (Thanks to chsparkman). I had some timing issues because I didn't read the instructions!! After reading the instructions and a quick adjustment of one of the Pawls no more problems! I plan on loading 45ACP and .223 on it also. I do have a Lee Pro 1000 it has been tweaked and a few parts replaced on it (got it for free!!) that is what my 45ACP is set up on for now. The LNL is a much better machine than the Lee!! As far as the priming system goes I read all the negative stuff about the priming system and did a polish job on all the related components in the priming system. I have only a couple of problems with the priming system since then and they were my fault, short stroking the press arm and putting a couple primers in with my fat fingers upside down! The machine works GREAT otherwise! Just remember there is a learning curve with any new machine after messing with my Lee Pro 1000 I had to go back and relearn how the LNL worked! After about 150 rounds I reloaded the rest in a couple 1-1/2 sessions. Really like the press a lot!

[r1kk1]

It's not blasphemy, but my 550B could not load some rounds that my AP can. This was after following advice from Dillon tech support.

Which rounds are that?

Take care

r1kk1

[Lloyd Smale]

im curious too. Other then the 50bmg ive never seen or heard of it not being able to load a round.

[Bonz]

Spent a few hours with my Hornady LNL last night. Did some tweaking & troubleshooting and in the process loaded 200 rounds of .357 Only issue I am having now is with the bullet feeder die. It just keeps spitting out projectiles that spill all over the floor. Tried a quick cleaning and reinstalling and getting the same issue. Tried changing the angle of bullet feeder tube, no help, same problem. Only thing that I can think of is doing a thorough cleaning this time to see if that resolves the issue. Anyone else have any other ideas ?

[dromia]

Ring Hornady.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

I know this will be an "Ol'Coot" thing, but case and bullet feeders were/are so low on my list of, "needs" for my LNL that they aren't even any where in sight.

Maybe it is because of my MANY years of single stage use, but the LNL without the extra cost or potential issues of those two attachments is just a lot more attractive.

Enough hassles in my life, don't need anything to add to it when the LNL without those attachments is just sooooooo fast.

Save your money for powder and ball!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Gliden07]

Spent a few hours with my Hornady LNL last night. Did some tweaking & troubleshooting and in the process loaded 200 rounds of .357 Only issue I am having now is with the bullet feeder die. It just keeps spitting out projectiles that spill all over the floor. Tried a quick cleaning and reinstalling and getting the same issue. Tried changing the angle of bullet feeder tube, no help, same problem. Only thing that I can think of is doing a thorough cleaning this time to see if that resolves the issue. Anyone else have any other ideas ?

Are you using cast or Jwords? I hear the Bullet feeder is only set up to dispense Jwords not cast?? I don't have a bullet feeder but I was looking to get one a lot of guys are using a modified RCBC unit to load Cast projectiles. Check out You Tube??

[anotherred]

Im really liking my ap press. The only problem Im having is getting a feel for the priming. Ive gone back to hand priming as its quick enough a gives me a moment to inspect cases. Im really glad I went this route.

[Bonz]

Where are the cases falling over? The spring around the shellplate will hold them when going around through the stations.

They fall over before they arrive at the first station, before the spring secures them. Still tinkering with the case feed, it does not push 100% of the cases fully forward in the shell plate.

[Bonz]

Spent a few hours with my Hornady LNL last night. Did some tweaking & troubleshooting and in the process loaded 200 rounds of .357 Only issue I am having now is with the bullet feeder die. It just keeps spitting out projectiles that spill all over the floor. Tried a quick cleaning and reinstalling and getting the same issue. Tried changing the angle of bullet feeder tube, no help, same problem. Only thing that I can think of is doing a thorough cleaning this time to see if that resolves the issue. Anyone else have any other ideas ?

I figured it out. The fingers on the bottom bushing were spread out too much. Probably from me seating the bullet feeder die too deep. I just squeezed them in a bit and tried it again, works great.

[Bonz]

Are you using cast or Jwords? I hear the Bullet feeder is only set up to dispense Jwords not cast?? I don't have a bullet feeder but I was looking to get one a lot of guys are using a modified RCBC unit to load Cast projectiles. Check out You Tube??

Using copper plated boolits from Xtreme Bullets. Figured out the problem but not 100% positive on the cause. The problem was the fingers on the bottom bushing were spread out too much. I just squeezed them in a bit and it now works fine. Still guessing that I seated the bullet feeder die too deep and the cases eventually spread them out until the bullets started falling out.

[Bonz]

Even though my previous press (Lyman manual turret) came with powder drop system, I never used it, its still sealed in its original box. I have always weighed each charge on a RCBS 1010. Never any concern about over-charging the rounds.

But with this new Hornady LNL press, the drop charge system was supposed to work extremely well so I decided to use it. Then last night, while loading some more .357, the press locked up because of a case falling over (I know, don't say anything) so I lowered the ram a bit, reached in with my fingers to remove the case and then finished the stroke. On the next pull of the handle, I looked down into the case that just came out of the powder drop station and noticed the case was overcharged with gun powder. So now, I am weighing every round that I have loaded with this press to be sure that I don't shoot a double-charged bullet. I grouped all the rounds by specific case type and began weighing each round. Thought I had the powder charge set at about 8 grains of PowerPistol but in weighing only about 60 rounds, I am seeing charge weights from 6.6 grains to 11.1 grains. I did exactly what the instructions said on initial power charge setup, including taking it completely apart, washing everything with Hornady cleaning & lube and hand towel drying before reassembly.

Does anyone have any ideas ?

[TheCelt]

I know this will be an "Ol'Coot" thing, but case and bullet feeders were/are so low on my list of, "needs" for my LNL that they aren't even any where in sight.

Maybe it is because of my MANY years of single stage use, but the LNL without the extra cost or potential issues of those two attachments is just a lot more attractive.

Enough hassles in my life, don't need anything to add to it when the LNL without those attachments is just sooooooo fast.

Save your money for powder and ball!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

Crusty,

I have a case feeder on my 650 which I like but could live without. like you I don't have a case or bullet feeder on my LNL and I get along just fine. I'd take a case feeder if someone gave me one but I can buy a LOT of powder/primers for the cost of a case feeder!! I reckon you're right, it's a COB thing (Cratchety Old B***ard)!!!

[Case Stuffer]

So now, I am weighing every round that I have loaded with this press to be sure that I don't shoot a double-charged bullet. I grouped all the rounds by specific case type and began weighing each round. Thought I had the powder charge set at about 8 grains of PowerPistol but in weighing only about 60 rounds, I am seeing charge weights from 6.6 grains to 11.1 grains.


Bummer, best advice is to be more careful , one thing that I do not like about most progressive presses is that they use a case activated power charger and thus short stroking the press can cause no charge or a double charge.

One should always look into the charged case and verify powder level before seating a boolit.

One feacture I really like about my very old CH Auto Champ is that it uses fixed powder bushing so charge only changes a bit due to powder column height and it only moves the charge bar during the upper and lower parts of travel.

One thing I do not like about the powder charger is that if there is no case under it it dumps a charge and then the slide has to be pulled and cleaned to stop it from jaming but that only takes a few minutes.

[Bonz]

Bummer, best advice is to be more careful , one thing that I do not like about most progressive presses is that they use a case activated power charger and thus short stroking the press can cause no charge or a double charge.

One should always look into the charged case and verify powder level before seating a boolit.

One feacture I really like about my very old CH Auto Champ is that it uses fixed powder bushing so charge only changes a bit due to powder column height and it only moves the charge bar during the upper and lower parts of travel.

One thing I do not like about the powder charger is that if there is no case under it it dumps a charge and then the slide has to be pulled and cleaned to stop it from jaming but that only takes a few minutes.

Just received the ergo handle and LED light kit for the Hornady LNL press. Lighting is definately an issue. I definately plan on looking in every case when it comes from the powder charge station. The concern with that is I will see a double-charge but not just a few grains. over.

[Case Stuffer]

Any half way decent power measurer should throw accurate charges. You mentioned 8 grain of Power Pistol which is a powder I have not used but HS-6 in my CH Auto Champ when set for 5.7 grains will be 5.6 to 5.8 with most being within the range of 5.065 to 5.075 . I get similiar accuracy with WW-231 and if anything it is a little more consistent. You are using a small drum I hope.

It is a good practice to throw 5 or so charges and throw them back in the powder hopper then throw 5 weight it ,throw five more and weigh it and then start seating boolits if the charges were all accurate.

[Muddydogs]

Even though my previous press (Lyman manual turret) came with powder drop system, I never used it, its still sealed in its original box. I have always weighed each charge on a RCBS 1010. Never any concern about over-charging the rounds.

But with this new Hornady LNL press, the drop charge system was supposed to work extremely well so I decided to use it. Then last night, while loading some more .357, the press locked up because of a case falling over (I know, don't say anything) so I lowered the ram a bit, reached in with my fingers to remove the case and then finished the stroke. On the next pull of the handle, I looked down into the case that just came out of the powder drop station and noticed the case was overcharged with gun powder. So now, I am weighing every round that I have loaded with this press to be sure that I don't shoot a double-charged bullet. I grouped all the rounds by specific case type and began weighing each round. Thought I had the powder charge set at about 8 grains of PowerPistol but in weighing only about 60 rounds, I am seeing charge weights from 6.6 grains to 11.1 grains. I did exactly what the instructions said on initial power charge setup, including taking it completely apart, washing everything with Hornady cleaning & lube and hand towel drying before reassembly.

Does anyone have any ideas ?

So I take it you are weighting loaded rounds sorted by case type to come up with the weight variation, correct? This means nothing as to what the actual powder charge is. Bullets don't all weight the same and cases with the same head stamp do not weight the same. The only way to check powder charge is to pull bullets.

As for the Hornady measure throwing a double charge, there is no way the measure set up to throw 8 grains dropped 16 grains unless the case was cycled twice. There is just no way that an extra 8 grains magically fit into the hopper set for 8 grains. Yes a couple grains extra is possible but not an extra charge.

[Gliden07]

Even though my previous press (Lyman manual turret) came with powder drop system, I never used it, its still sealed in its original box. I have always weighed each charge on a RCBS 1010. Never any concern about over-charging the rounds.

But with this new Hornady LNL press, the drop charge system was supposed to work extremely well so I decided to use it. Then last night, while loading some more .357, the press locked up because of a case falling over (I know, don't say anything) so I lowered the ram a bit, reached in with my fingers to remove the case and then finished the stroke. On the next pull of the handle, I looked down into the case that just came out of the powder drop station and noticed the case was overcharged with gun powder. So now, I am weighing every round that I have loaded with this press to be sure that I don't shoot a double-charged bullet. I grouped all the rounds by specific case type and began weighing each round. Thought I had the powder charge set at about 8 grains of PowerPistol but in weighing only about 60 rounds, I am seeing charge weights from 6.6 grains to 11.1 grains. I did exactly what the instructions said on initial power charge setup, including taking it completely apart, washing everything with Hornady cleaning & lube and hand towel drying before reassembly.

Does anyone have any ideas ?

You did assemble the powder measure with the Pistol insert not the Rifle Insert? Not trying to be a wise A$$. I did not have a problem with the powder measure? Another thing the more you use the measure the better they work. My charges initially were off a 1/2 grain + or minus checking every tenth round or so I was concerned but after putting about 400-500 rounds it started throwing charges really good now within a couple 100ths of a grain. I'm not familiar with the powder your using. I've read where some rifle powders that are stick type powders don't meter well in powder measures like the Hornady because of the way the cylinder rotates. Apparently the powder doesn't fill the void completely and then the "sticks get sheared off when the cylinder rotates to fill the case.

[anotherred]

Also, how much powder do you have through the measure. As you get more through (maybe a pound) things smooth out. I find mine to be fairly consistent, like +/- 1gr. and usually better than that once I get it dialed in.

[Bonz]

Just received the ergo handle and LED light kit for the Hornady LNL press. Lighting is definately an issue. I definately plan on looking in every case when it comes from the powder charge station. The concern with that is I will see a double-charge but not just a few grains. over.

The ergo handle is nice but don't waste your money on the LED light. It certainly is not as bright as shown in the picture on the website.

[Bonz]

Any half way decent power measurer should throw accurate charges. You mentioned 8 grain of Power Pistol which is a powder I have not used but HS-6 in my CH Auto Champ when set for 5.7 grains will be 5.6 to 5.8 with most being within the range of 5.065 to 5.075 . I get similiar accuracy with WW-231 and if anything it is a little more consistent. You are using a small drum I hope.

It is a good practice to throw 5 or so charges and throw them back in the powder hopper then throw 5 weight it ,throw five more and weigh it and then start seating boolits if the charges were all accurate.

No matter how many times I try, the weight is always off. I just can't understand how the weight can fluctuate that much. Its no different than dipping powder with the little yellow scoops. Think I am going to take it apart again tomorrow and look it over. Hate to but I will probably need to contact Hornady on this one...

[Bonz]

So I take it you are weighting loaded rounds sorted by case type to come up with the weight variation, correct? This means nothing as to what the actual powder charge is. Bullets don't all weight the same and cases with the same head stamp do not weight the same. The only way to check powder charge is to pull bullets.

As for the Hornady measure throwing a double charge, there is no way the measure set up to throw 8 grains dropped 16 grains unless the case was cycled twice. There is just no way that an extra 8 grains magically fit into the hopper set for 8 grains. Yes a couple grains extra is possible but not an extra charge.

I grouped a bunch of cases by type (R-P, R - P, Winchester, etc) and weighed each one and averaged their weight. Then I weighed the loaded rounds. Any loaded round that weighed more than Avg Case Weight + 8gr powder + 125gr boolit + 1gr, I pulled the boolit and weighed the powder. 125gr boolit has a max charge of 10.5gr PowerPistol, the highest weight I have found so far is 11.1gr The new Ruger .357 might have handled the extra boom but maybe not.

[Bonz]

You did assemble the powder measure with the Pistol insert not the Rifle Insert? Not trying to be a wise A$$. I did not have a problem with the powder measure? Another thing the more you use the measure the better they work. My charges initially were off a 1/2 grain + or minus checking every tenth round or so I was concerned but after putting about 400-500 rounds it started throwing charges really good now within a couple 100ths of a grain. I'm not familiar with the powder your using. I've read where some rifle powders that are stick type powders don't meter well in powder measures like the Hornady because of the way the cylinder rotates. Apparently the powder doesn't fill the void completely and then the "sticks get sheared off when the cylinder rotates to fill the case.

I sincerely appreciate you bringing up all possibilities. Thought it was silly to disassemble the brand new powder charge to find that a rifle rotor came installed from the factory and the pistol rotor was in a cardboard box. Yep, figured that one out immediately. Alliant PowerPistol is small flake. Really sucks that you say that "stick shaped powder" is an issue. I load .40 & .45 with Vitavourhi which is the stick shape but they are very small.

[Bonz]

Also, how much powder do you have through the measure. As you get more through (maybe a pound) things smooth out. I find mine to be fairly consistent, like +/- 1gr. and usually better than that once I get it dialed in.

Thats good to know because I have not even put a pound threw it yet. At a guess, maybe half a pound or a little less so far.

[Muddydogs]

I throw Unique through my measure which is thought to be the hardest powder to meter and I keep mine at + - 1 grain. I did take the measure apart including pulling off the plastic hopper and duffed out all the red paint inside the hopper. I buffed the inside to a mirror finish with the dremal tool. I also use a bullet vib (sex toy from Amazon)that has a cord running to a AA battery back so I can control the speed as well as turn it off without removing the vib from the powder. The vib helps keep the large flake powder flowing. Are you using the powder baffle?

[Muddydogs]

Also wipe the measure out with a used dryer sheet to cut any static and I also keep a piece of dryer sheet tucked under the lid to help with static.

[Gliden07]

I sincerely appreciate you bringing up all possibilities. Thought it was silly to disassemble the brand new powder charge to find that a rifle rotor came installed from the factory and the pistol rotor was in a cardboard box. Yep, figured that one out immediately. Alliant PowerPistol is small flake. Really sucks that you say that "stick shaped powder" is an issue. I load .40 & .45 with Vitavourhi which is the stick shape but they are very small.

Well you and I are in the same boat! I've never reloaded rifle rounds but will be making some .223 Remington in the near future using Varget powder! The article I read specifically stated that was the powder he was having problems with in his Hornady measure! I'll find out soon enough!! I have a SS press that I use to size tumble lube bullets with that might be pressed into use?? We shall see!!

[geargnasher]

Blasphamy

Dillon snob. So nyua. :kidding:

Seriosly though, my complaint is petty but decisive: I can't stand tube-fed priming mechanisms. When Dillon pulls their head out and starts using trays with built-in flipper teats I'll own one. And if they did that and made automatic case feeders that worked and only cost $30 like Lee's I'd own more than one Dillon progressive press.

Gear

[Lloyd Smale]

I consider my self somewhat of a dillon snob but will say this. Id take the hornady measure anyday before id take a dillon. Its more consistant with more differnt powders and easier to adjust. The few things that can cause problems are if its new clean it with brake cleaner and no lube! Make sure you have the proper drop bushing (rifle or pistol) make sure that if your using charges lighter then 10 grains your using the small barrel and adjuster and make sure you have your measure set up right so it gives a full stroke with the case your using. As to power pistol its allways been one of the easiest powders to meter in all of my measures. Gearnasher if you think that lees NON TUBE fed primers system is an upgrade from a hornady or dillons and if you SERIOUSLY call that silly thing lee calls a case feeder a good system ive got a couple bridges......

[Bonz]

I throw Unique through my measure which is thought to be the hardest powder to meter and I keep mine at + - 1 grain. I did take the measure apart including pulling off the plastic hopper and duffed out all the red paint inside the hopper. I buffed the inside to a mirror finish with the dremal tool. I also use a bullet vib (sex toy from Amazon)that has a cord running to a AA battery back so I can control the speed as well as turn it off without removing the vib from the powder. The vib helps keep the large flake powder flowing. Are you using the powder baffle?

I followed Hornady's initial setup instructions exactly including the Hornady dry case lube and towel drying. And yes, definately using the baffle.

Last night, I loaded a "boat load" of .357 ammo thru the press and it appears that anotherred may be right. To keep an eye on the powder measure, I weigh every 5th case and the charges are continuing to get more consistent. By the end of the night, the deviation was not more than .2 of a grain. Already told the wife that I need to start loading .45's this morning to fix the powder measure ;-)

[Case Stuffer]

I also use a bullet vib (sex toy from Amazon)that has a cord running to a AA battery back so I can control the speed as well as turn it off without removing the vib from the powder. The vib helps keep the large flake powder flowing.


Very exciting comments , wife is still in bed , gone down to shop to get my powder vibrator.;-)

[Case Stuffer]

The ergo handle is nice but don't waste your money on the LED light. It certainly is not as bright as shown in the picture on the website.

The LED light strip which I used on my CH Auto Champ is very bright and low cost as well. Does not come with a power supply but a 9V battery will work ,not as bright as with 12V but still good and Rdio Shack has 8 cell (battery) AA holders for a few bucks and even cheap AAs should last for a very long time.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?193055-Let-there-be-light-CH-Auto-Champ&p=2141087&viewfull=1#post2141087

[PS Paul]

Set it up and start reloading. 2 years ago when I first got my LnL AP I had to adjust the timing and have not touched them since and I have over 10000 rounds loaded. Never messed with the priming system just put it together and started reloading. Just today I switched from small primer to large primer, set up my 45 dies (first time loading 45 on the LnL), loaded 500 cast 45's, set up a couple new 44 dies, loaded 500 44 cast, switched back to small primer, adjusted 38 dies to load 105 grain cast and loaded up 30 test loads with this new 105 grainer. Wanted the press set for small primer so after I test the 38's I can go into production of them.

If you are short on time and want to make more rounds then you can with a single stage then you are on the right track, I too loaded on a Rock Chucker for 20 + years and kinda got out of reloading because I could blow 2 hours of work in 20 minutes. Decided to get a progressive, picked the LnL AP and now i'm cranking out the rounds. I don't load fast on my LnL but just nice and steady.

I have not had trouble with the timing if I am pulling the handle at different speeds, just today the 45 and 38 cases loaded great and I moved right along but the 44 cases would sometimes hit the RCBS sizing die on the way in and need a nudge with the finger to get them in strait so I had to slow down the press stroke while loading 44's so I didn't ding up the case mouths.

As for the priming system what can I say, I don't wax or lube anything, didn't sand or ream anything, I just fill the tube and prime. Ya once about every 1000 rounds or so I might get some powder, dirt or brass in the system that jams things up put all it takes to clean it out is a little brushing while holding back the primer shuttle.

One thing you have to remember is people get these presses and think they are going to set them up and they will magically turn out ammo, when the slightest thing goes wrong the first thing they do is get on the internet and complain that its the machines fault when 9 times out of 10 its the operators fault but in this day and age of blame everyone but yourself what do you expect.

I would say at 200 rounds a week you will get bored in a hurry. I can load 200 rounds in a couple hours with a primer size switch, adjusting the powder drop and setting up the seater die for a new bullet. If the press is already set and all I have to do is add primers and powder 200 is an hour job at best.

Here is an old pic for your viewing pleasure complete with the $28.00 bullet feeder.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k256/muddydogs/Weapons/100_2937.jpg

Come on! Really? I mean take a LOOK at this bench, man! WHAT a setup! It's sorta like a reloader's dream you got there, mister! REALLY cool. Thanks for posting this. Gives me a few ideas of my own. I DO have the space, but I DON'T have the time to make it THIS nice.

[r1kk1]

I'll stick with tube priming systems found on everyone else presses including single stage's of various manufacturer's. Give me a double wall tube over a plastic tray anytime.

Sorry to distract from the original OP.

Take care

r1kk1

[bbqncigars]

The rounds that the 550B couldn't load consistently are .30 Mauser and 25-20WCF. I shoot a lot of the latter, and the Dillon mangled about 10% of the cases no matter what their tech support had me do. That failure rate is completely unacceptable to me. The blue press now resides in a box. I probably should sell the damned thing.

[r1kk1]

The rounds that the 550B couldn't load consistently are .30 Mauser and 25-20WCF. I shoot a lot of the latter, and the Dillon mangled about 10% of the cases no matter what their tech support had me do. That failure rate is completely unacceptable to me. The blue press now resides in a box. I probably should sell the damned thing.

Thanks for answering that. I proceed slow with 38-40 and 44-40. I'm thinking maybe a chamfer on the die to make easier with a progressive press. If the mouth hits the die it will collapse a shoulder, especially for the two above cartridges and I suspect 25-20 which I don't own. I have loaded 32-20 on it and still proceed slowly.

At least when you sell it, you will make a profit nowadays!

Take care

r1kk1

[Alvarez Kelly]

The rounds that the 550B couldn't load consistently are .30 Mauser and 25-20WCF. I shoot a lot of the latter, and the Dillon mangled about 10% of the cases no matter what their tech support had me do. That failure rate is completely unacceptable to me. The blue press now resides in a box. I probably should sell the damned thing.

I have a thread elsewhere, where I am offering a Hollywood press in exchange for a Dillon. How serious are you? :-)

[Cane_man]

Im really liking my ap press. The only problem Im having is getting a feel for the priming. Ive gone back to hand priming as its quick enough a gives me a moment to inspect cases. Im really glad I went this route.

you just gotta stay with it... you develop a feel with priming and you know whether it seated correctly or fouled... once you get the right "feel" you will be able to consistently seat primers without any problems..

[Racingsnake]

Guys, I've read this thread with great interest and appreciate the posts very much. I have decided to return the LNL to the dealer and I've bought a Lee Cast 4 hole turret. My reasons were not only because of the priming and timing issues as I think these could have been resolved in time but time is something I don't have a lot of right now.

I like to keep things simple and as I only load for 38 / 357 I thought the Lee Turret would be better for my needs. 500-600 rounds a month is all I need and Lee has served me well for 20 years +.

Regards, Racingsnake

[ACrowe25]

Great idea, I've reloaded a few on the Lee 4 hole and for the price... You just can't beat it IMO. Not to mention what you GET for that price.

[Muddydogs]

Come on! Really? I mean take a LOOK at this bench, man! WHAT a setup! It's sorta like a reloader's dream you got there, mister! REALLY cool. Thanks for posting this. Gives me a few ideas of my own. I DO have the space, but I DON'T have the time to make it THIS nice.

Well thanks, I've been at this on and off for 25 or so years and have acquired a few things along the way. The pic is old as I have added a lube sizer next to the vise and changed a few things around.

[j_dude77]

Guys thank you for the good information and excellent advice. That's why I love this forum.

As with Heavy Lead's post I only intend loading one calibre on the press and that is 38 Special. The reason for he progressive is also because my time is limited not because I need thousands of rounds a month.

Some people have experienced the LNL dies "popping" out of the press head. Any one see this?

Yes I had this problem with my LnL. It happened most often on the powder die. I am not sure how it did it, but eventually it would work loose and "pop" out. I tried tightening it as best I could but it did not solve the problem. As I said before each press 650XL or LnL each have their strong-points and weaknesses; it all boils down to what you can live with.

[Bonz]

The Hornady Powder Measure calmed down and is now extremely accurate. The previous comment was spot on, just needed to run a bunch of powder thru it.

Also, just loaded that stack of 45acp using Vihtavuori, which is stick shape. The Hornady Powder Measure appears to love Vihtavuori powder ;-) I setup the powder charge and never had to tweak it again.

66143

[Cane_man]

Yes I had this problem with my LnL. It happened most often on the powder die. I am not sure how it did it, but eventually it would work loose and "pop" out. I tried tightening it as best I could but it did not solve the problem. As I said before each press 650XL or LnL each have their strong-points and weaknesses; it all boils down to what you can live with.

i drilled and tapped 1/4" set screws at the powder throw station, doesnt move now :)

[armedmoose]

i drilled and tapped 1/4" set screws at the powder throw station, doesnt move now :)

As an alternative: If you call Hornady CS, they will send you a lockwasher that will fit your LNL bushing. I called and asked for the washer that they provide if you use a Dillon Power trimmer on your LNLAP.