heavy boolets in a 45 ACP

[NickSS]

I have a new Ruger P90 that I have been shooting a lot recently mostly with hard ball to get a supply of brass and break the pistol in. Now that it has been broken it I have started loading cast. The first box of ammo I loaded was loaded with some 255 gr RNFP 45 colt boolits that I had cast for my 45 colt. I did not have any data for the powders I had for that weight boolit so I had to interpolate. I settled on 5 gr of red dot powder with the boolits sized to .452". Accuracy was good and function was good except after a couple of clips I had problems with the slide not going fully closed. I think that the nose of the boolit was too fat and that after some fouling built up it kept the boolit from seating. recoil was snappy and the cases really flew out of the pistol. Does any one have any ideas on what a good load using red dot would be for a heavy slug?

[35remington]

That load is pretty stiff. Deeply seating the 255, as you must, raises pressures quite a bit with fast burning powder.

Five grains Red Dot and a 230 FN loaded to 1.230" gets about 860 fps in my 4 inch P97, cousin to your P90. If you have the typical throatless Ruger you're seating the bullet to an OAL shorter than that with the 255, I would reckon. I would guess you're shorter than 1.20". Combine that with the long bearing surface of the 255 and I have no doubt ejection and recoil are pretty snappy. A guess that is more than educated would probably put you at over 900 fps with that 255. I would agree that the failure to return completely to battery may be due to lead buildup in the (non) throat. Seating it deeper may solve the problem but will increase velocity and pressure.

I'd suggest cutting it a half grain for regular use. I have no doubt it is clean burning.

[KYCaster]

We had quite a discussion on this subject about a year or so ago. Do a search and you should find some info.

From personal experience with boolits up to 265gr. I think Red Dot is way too fast to use in heavy boolit loads in the 45ACP. I wouldn't use anything slower than Unique. I've had good results with HS-6, HS7 and SR7625.

Avoid any powders with a reputation for pressure spikes.(Blue Dot, Universal come to mind)

Be extremely careful with over all length. Very small changes in OAL will result in substantial changes in case volumn and DRASTIC CHANGES IN PRESSURE!

Be extremely careful with crimp. A boolit pushed deeper into the case on the feed ramp will result in DANGEROUS PRESSURE!

There are several things that can cause your out-of-battery condition. Besides the cruddy chamber and short leade already mentioned, look for bulged cases at the base of the boolit. Brass with thicker case walls may be bulged out with the deep seated heavy boolits and interfere with chambering. The same condition can occur when a boolit is pushed deeper into the case on the feed ramp. If the condition is caused by a telescoping cartridge then the problem could become EXTREMELY DANGEROUS if the bulged case is chambered and fired. The case may not have room to expand and release the boolit, resulting in DANGEROUS PRESSURE!

I don't want to sound like I'm trying to scare you, I just want to emphasize the fact that you're doing something with very little published data available, and you need to understand that any problems will be greatly magnified by the pressures involved. I have fired several thousand rounds of 45ACP loaded with 265gr boolits, and I know of one guy who successfully uses 305gr boolits, so it can be done safely. You just have to be much more careful than with "standard" loads.

Enjoy
Jerry

[Petander]

I´ve shot a 255 RF for many years with a couple of Colts using Vihtavuori powder.



Here´s some load data by Ricciardelli : http://stevespages.com/451p_1_260.html

[txbirdman]

I have recently used the Lee 255 RFN in my Colt Combat Commander. The load was 6 gr. of Herco and chronyed 805 fps. That's as far as I want to go with heavies in the 1911 platform

[45 2.1]

Should any of you want to try a really great SWC in the 45 ACP, try the 452490, the original one that weighed 230 gr. ready to go. The current version weighs around 255 gr. and occupies more case room.

[DanWalker]

I'm working on the same problem right now.
I tried 5 grains of red dot under a 250 keith (group buy)
and it was a bit warm for me.
I tried 4.5 grains of red dot also and found it still to be too snappy for work on steel plates.
When I get back home from this job I'm going to try some Unique.
Sadly, I don't think red dot is the way to go with heavy boolits in the 45 acp.

[johniv]

Have used 6.0 gr of Unique and the lyman #452423 (245 gr from WW) seated to 1.200 OAL for 860 fps from a 5" Colt 1911 . Below listed max in the Lyman cast boolit book ( fergit the vintage) snappy but not unreasonable in my guns,FWIW.
John

[lawboy]

Well, I am just foraging into these waters as a result of happenstance bringing me a H&G #22 mould. Two-cavity. Throws a roundnose flatpoint bullet with two lube grooves and weighing 259grs from the mould, 260 lubed. Bullet length is .700 on the nose. Compare this to .685 for the RCBS 45-201 that lubes out to 208grs with my alloy. Seated to just cover the lube grooves, the #22 gives an OAL of 2.244 and cheerfully hand cycle through a Kimber Ultra and a Springfield longslide. I have loaded 21 of them up over 4.0 of bullseye for testing this Thursday night. Will report back. :-D

[yondering]

I think Red Dot is way too fast to use in heavy boolit loads in the 45ACP. I wouldn't use anything slower than Unique.

Those are my thoughts as well. Same goes for Bullseye, way too fast for heavy boolits. Use fast powders for light bullets, slow powders for heavy bullets. I've had good results with Unique for heavy boolit loads in 45 ACP, but wouldn't use any powder faster than Unique.

452423 and 454424 have both worked well for me, start with 5.0 gr Unique and work up; 6.0 gr is a good load in my 1911.

As others have said, it's very easy to get into dangerous pressures when using heavy boolits in the 45 ACP. Fast powders just makes it worse.

[S.R.Custom]

I load a Lyman 454424 (sized to .452") over 5.5 grs of 231 for the .45 ACP. Seems to work quite nicely-- 231 doesn't seem to be as sensitive to the shortage of internal case volume as some of the other fast powders are.

[9.3X62AL]

Heavy-for-caliber boolit/bullets in 45 ACP is not a thing I do. 230s at a MAX of 900 FPS from 5" barrels is as hard as I'll run an autopistol, out of concern for peening of slide stop and slide contact points. I have a Ruger in 45 Colt for heavy boolits going at 45 ACP or faster speeds.

[robertbank]

I am at the other end of the spectrum. I have loaded 255 gr bullets with the objective of seeing how I could get to 165 PF with the heavies. Only tried it once without chrono but the load was super light shooting and you darn near could see the bullets in the air. All took place two years ago and in my exeburance I forgot to record loads...dumb! I used commercial cast lead bullets. My .45LC mold casts to sharp a meplat for functioning in my 1911's so I have to wait until I go south again to get some more of the .45LC bullets.

Take care

Bob

[wiljen]

Handloader had an article on using heavies in the 45 ACP awhile back. I'll see if I can find it when I get a chance.

Quickload predicts 5gr of Reddot behind the lee 452-255-RF to generate almost 26000 PSI. That's well over the suggested max for the 45 ACP. I believe I'd keep loads under 4.4gr to be safe.

I ran most of the loads listed on steve's page on that link above through quickload as well and some of them are scary hot at the top end. For Example Quickload shows 5.5gr of 231 producing over 20000 PSI while that page lists a max of 5.9. QL also shows max with HS-6 as 7.8gr and the top load listed on Steve's page (8.9gr) produces over 27,000 PSI. I'd be a little leary of his data and work up very cautiously as published data for heavies is scarce and that looks really hot for a 1911 to me.

[curator]

Try 5.5 to 6.0 grains of Unique with the Lee .452-255RF boolit. Seat to maximum length that will feed in your pistol. I get 780fps from my 1911 with this combination. Slug made from WW alloy, water-drop quenched--lubed with LBT blue in a RCBS lubrisizer, .453 die. My 1911 has a 20 pound recoil spring and recoil buffer added so as to not peen the frame with this load. Accuracy is very good and my gun ejects cases rather gently despite the stiffer recoil with the heavy slug.

[JMax]

We used to shoot 255 gr bullets for pins at Second Chance but I would never recommend it for normal shooting, too hard on the pistols.