Need a powder choice for 45-70 BFR

[44man]

I was going to make a new mold for the BFR with a bigger meplat. Got to scrounging around and found I already did but it weighs 378 gr's. Alzheimer's I guess. Anyway I have been shooting lighter boolits with 4759 and hesitate to use it with a heavier boolit. I need a choice for good velocity and a complete burn in a 10" barrel plus great accuracy. Stupid manuals are junk for the 45-70 and no work has been done with short barrels. Even Handloader ignores the BFR's. Anything too much slower then 4198 just dumps the powder in the barrel. I don't like 4227.
Anyone have a favorite load for this or around a 400 gr boolit?

[45nut]

2400 is my choice for my 45-70 bfr.

[44man]

I have some and will give it a try. What amount would you suggest for my boolit weight? It is a PB.

[Dr. A]

25gr. of 2400 works well in a 18.5in. barrel. Don't know about a Bfr. Will probably have some kernels:???:

[Dr. A]

You probably have no interest in it, but 13gr. of Trail Boss is a mighty slow bullet, but is very smooth and clean in my guns.

[Porterhouse]

May I ask why you don't want to use 4759 with 400grs?

[45nut]

May I ask why you don't want to use 4759 with 400grs?

Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
Oh,,,sorry,,got distracted...[smilie=1:

I don't use it because I don't have any but I do have 2400 and it's always been a solid performer for me.

[44man]

I can't find any load data for 4759 with heavy boolits. Any load info for any 45-70 is so screwy because of all the different strengths of guns it drives me nuts. Magnum research says not to exceed 30,000 psi but everything in the books is in CUP.
I am not one to guess at stuff and would prefer a max load for any powder. They cut off using 4759 as soon as boolit weight starts to go up.

[Scrounger]

SR4759 is slower than #2400 and about the same as IMR4227. If you can find data for either of those and your bullet of choice, you have a starting point.

[Bass Ackward]

I was going to make a new mold for the BFR with a bigger meplat. Got to scrounging around and found I already did but it weighs 378 gr's. Alzheimer's I guess. Anyway I have been shooting lighter boolits with 4759 and hesitate to use it with a heavier boolit. I need a choice for good velocity and a complete burn in a 10" barrel plus great accuracy. Stupid manuals are junk for the 45-70 and no work has been done with short barrels. Even Handloader ignores the BFR's. Anything too much slower then 4198 just dumps the powder in the barrel. I don't like 4227.
Anyone have a favorite load for this or around a 400 gr boolit?


44,

I .... know how sensitive you can be here. If you really, really, really mean COMPLETE burn then you are talking Blue Dot. If you can live with 99.28% then 2400 at 29 grains is 29,000 psi using my measurements. Pretty much the same with AA#9.

So as the questions everyone else poses, if 4759 is still to slow, then it was clearly slower for the lighter bullet. And if you are biased against 4227, well then, you ain't got much left. :grin:

Welcome to the world of short barrels. :grin: The gun is crying to ya. What it needs is MORE bullet!!! 550 grains in that puppy will give you more powder choices and increase neck tension too.

[44man]

I like 4759 and with my 317 gr boolit it seems to burn OK, never had any powder kernals until I played with annealed checks. I watch my friend shoot it in dim light and it has a very small fireball from the muzzle. If you read my other post you see that the annealed check cost me over 300 fps velocity.
I should be OK with loads like 2400 and work up a little with the heavier boolit.
I tried both 4227's in the gun before, working to max and never got anything to group good enough.
Thanks for the info Bass but if you would like to squeeze the trigger for me with 550 gr boolits, please come over. Those would make my .475 look like a pussycat. [smilie=1: Just kidding, I have shot some heavy boolits and the gun doesn't like them that much. I haven't found the right one for it yet. My lighter boolit shoots so flat and accurate to 200 yd's, I at least want a heavy boolit that has the same accuracy.

[BABore]

Might try some XMP 5744 too. It's right in that fast burning rate, ignites easily, and can be loaded up or down. I would think that a 28k cup load would be real close to 30kpsi. I know that 40 k cup and 42.5kpsi are roughly equivilent.

[Bass Ackward]

My lighter boolit shoots so flat and accurate to 200 yd's, I at least want a heavy boolit that has the same accuracy.


44,

You need to make up your mind. Light bullets are not accurate in a 44, but in a 45, they are? There is a problem here, because shooting a 375 in a 45-70 equates to about 200 grainers in a 44 on a case volume ratio basis.

Could it be that you are learning to .... adapt? What .... will be next! :grin: Soft bullets?

[44man]

I admit it's strange but I dont have a good design yet for a heavy boolit. The reason I started light is that the 300 gr Hornady shot almost 1/2" groups at 50 yd's. So thats where I started.
The only heavy 45-70 boolits I have are for BPCR and I have not had one shoot good yet and I have a pile of molds. I even tried the Lee and Lyman 405 gr types with poor results. The hard thing about a large case in a revolver is the powder and how much can be burnt to get a heavy boolit fast enough. Some powders like 4198 worked fine with jacketed but would stick a case now and then with cast. Four would fall out and I would have to remove the cylinder to get the other out. I went through a lot of powders.
Don't get me wrong, every boolit was good enough to hunt with but did not meet what I get with my light boolit.
The heavy boolit is going to be a design problem and a powder choice to go along with it. A winter project.
Since I shoot long range a lot, I dont want a heavy boolit lumbering along at 1000 fps.

[Bass Ackward]

In my harrassing, I think you miss the point. Let's try this.

Lyman 357121 just as an example @ 433 grains: 36 grains of RL7 yields 29,379 psi and produces 1374 fps at a burn rate of 96%. This is a burn rate that is normally indicating a GC for my use.

Let's go slower to show how this opens choices up. Same bullet. 42.5 grains of AA2015 yields 29,200 psi that produces 1389 fps at a burn rate of 87%.

This is still PB burn rate area if you want it to be. Why? .700+ is in the case filling up case volume. This adds to case neck tension. And you have higher inertia which is the real advantage to heavy bullets. It's not only the pressure level, but the rate at which it comes up that helps slower powders in short barrels.

So added are things like RL10X, IMR and H 4198, and 1680 to try.

[SharpsShooter]

44Man

It is not on your list but I have had very good results with cast and 4064 in the 4570. 43gr, a standard primer and 400-420gr Plain base boolit (457193) have produced 1400fps and been very accurate. This is not a max load. It is just where I saw the most accuracy in my situation. I use a heavy roll crimp and see no powder in the barrel from shot to shot. Just some food for thought.

SS

[44man]

You fellas are right and I knew it----I need a heavy boolit but I also want it to be a WFN for hunting which is the problem right now. All of my heavy boolits are for BPCR and none shoots worth a darn out of the revolver plus I don't want to hunt with the nose shapes.
I have to do a search and see if any heavy WFN boolits are made.