Which handgun for daughter?

[RugerFan]

In a few months my daughter will turn 21 and I plan on getting her a handgun (her first firearm). It will be for home defense and probably CCW at a later date. Her firearms experience is fairly limited (much supervised range time will ensue), so I want to get something fairly simple to operate. A revolver would probably fit the bill. My initial impression is to get her a S&W Ladysmith in .38 Special. Quality and reliability is paramount, so cheapo guns will not be considered.

Any suggestions? :coffee:

[454PB]

With a handle like RugerFan, I'd think you would look at an SP101.

[RugerFan]

With a handle like RugerFan, I'd think you would look at an SP101.

I thought about that, but I want something that will fit her smallish hands. My son will turn 21 a year later and he will probably be getting a Ruger.

(Yup, I love Rugers, but I still believe in getting the right firearm for the situation.)

[Ghugly]

My daughter-in-law has a .38 Ladysmith and loves it. Hers is blue with the exposed hammer. Being a manly man, of course, I wouldn't have one. But, damn, it looks good. Shoots good too.

[Ghugly]

Have you considered a Makarov? I think Makarov is Russian for shoots anything, anytime, anywhere, no matter what. I've put over 5,000 rounds of about everything I could find that looked like a 9mm Mak cartridge through mine, cast, fmj, round nose, hollow point, handloads, cheap Russian steel cased crap, etc. and it has never, ever failed to go bang.........not even once. I don't know of a simpler gun to operate, safe to carry with one in the chamber and the safety off. Squeeze the trigger and it goes bang.

[schutzen]

Do not rule out the Tarus 2" Stub Nose. It is a good gun to learn and practice on. Then purchase the Airweight S&W. It's light, easy to carry and a duplicate of the Tarus .38. It also makes a good second gun. My oldest daughter is 29. Rattle her windows at night and she is out of bed with a 9MM Lady Smith in the right hand and a Tarus .38 in the left. She learned on the Tarus, but chose the 9MM after she became a more experienced shooter.

[Dale53]

Rugerfan;
I would NEVER suggest an Airweight Smith for a new shooter. There is just too much recoil to handle for a beginner. If you prefer an S&W snubby, go for one of the stainless models.

Frankly, for most use, I would suggest a 4" barrel. It will be much easier for a new shooter to manage. New shooters are better served with revolvers (simpler and much safer for a newby to handle). The Ruger SP101 has a small grip well suited to small hands. A .38 Special Ruger SP101 should be ideal for your purposes.

Understand, I am a Smith fan but being a fan should have nothing to do with this important decision. One of the most important things you could do for her is to load her a case of practice ammunition so that she can REALLY learn to shoot this well.

Dale53

[trickyasafox]

I like the makarov suggestion. My father has been carrying a PA-63, and though it is low cost, i wouldn't call it cheap by any stretch.

Recoil might be a bit much for a new shooter, but if you load up some cast and then just shoot a bit of whatever defense load you choose, it might be manageable. i'm kinda a sucker for 9mm mak though. not sure why, i just think its a great little cartridge.

lady smiths are nice. if i had a ccw, i'd look long and hard at one.

[walltube]

3" SS SP101 in .357 Mag wearing Hogue grips. A Wolff spring kit and honing the trigger linkage are suggested for less than robust female hands.

You can load .357 brass down to .38Spl. power for familiarisation and practice. 357 Mag Cor-Bon, Federal or Speer defense loads for the real deal. Three out of five women ( one a Cop) in my family recommend them.

Just our $ .02...........

[Lloyd Smale]

the ladysmith is about the finest snubby on the market. The sps are good guns too but there heavier a little bigger and the trigger pulls are a little much for a girl or kid to shoot accurately.

[KCSO]

I took my daughter out to the range with a box full of guns and let her shoot them. Her pick was my S and W 669 9 mm. My wife likes a S and W M10 wiht the 3" tube. A lot of this is going to be what SHE feels right with and a surprise gun might not be the thing. Don't discount a 22 or 32 as a first gun as it's not the sound that kills and 2 good hits wiht a 22 are worth a cylinder full of loud noises. I would almost go with 2 guns a 22 to start (Taurus snubbie) and something else later, unless she is already an expirenced shooter. In which case SHE should know what she wants.

[EMC45]

+1 on the recoil aspect. The Airweights are nice, but they DO recoil real hard. Not bad for me, but my wife sold hers soon after she shot a few rounds through it. It was a Mod 49 Bodyguard. I told her not to sell it, but she didn't want it any more.

[felix]

I like the hoglegs. The fear factor provided by one looking down the muzzle can't be beat. But, only after some good experience in handling any kind of pisstoll. Always mo'betta' to haul out a sawed off double barrel from under a trench coat, especially from a woman. ... felix

[NickSS]

I have an SP101 that has a 3 inch barrel in 357 mag. Both my 23 year and 16 year old daugters have fired it and have had no problems handling 38 spl level loads in it. The only thing I did was to put a wolf spring kit in it to reduce the trigger pull weight. I have tried several 2 inch snubbies and except at ranges of 10 yards or less they did not shoot very well. My ruger with the three inch barrel shoots just fine out to 25 yards. For defence you do not need 25 yards but my club only has a 25 yard range and oportunities to shoot closer are limited for practice.

[RugerFan]

Wow, lots of good advice. You all have given me much to ponder. A .22 was mentioned and that may be best for a first gun. I agree that letting her test-fire a few pistols would be a good idea as well (rather than letting the gift be a suprise). Hmmm...much to consider. Thanks for all the quick replys (and more always welcome) :Fire:

[MGD]

Let her try a 642 Smith with some 148 wadcutters, the search will probably be over.

[Single Shot]

My sister has a snub Tarus in 32 H&R mag.

Puts out a little more foot pounds of energy than a 38.

She loves it. As Tarus says "Taurus Model 731 offers 6 shots of the increasingly popular .32 H&R Magnum round in an UltraLite package small enough for lawful concealed carry and powerful enough to get the job done. The Model 731 incorporates all of the innovation that Taurus offers the unique Taurus Security System and the Unlimited Lifetime Repair Policy. Test fire one of these beauties today. You will want to take it home with you."

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=281&category=Revolver

[Crash_Corrigan]

He has worked on his and it sports Hi-Viz sights, an windage adjustable rear sight that really has an excellent sighting picuture, smoother cocobola grips, ulta smooth trigger job and no hammer spur. :-D He carries it in a pocket holster or behind the hip in paddle forbus dealie. [smilie=1: This revolter he has allowed me to shoot and it is the smoothest double action trigger I have ever felt. :Fire: He can group 5 shots in 2.5" at 20 yds and that is as good as you need for a belly gun. :) The gun is finished in stainless and is guite a shooter, easily concealable and has a low recoil but better ballistics than the .38. He walks around the gun store with a variety of bottom feeders on his belt but always has the .32 in his pocket. If I was not tottally happy with my Taurus 85 utlralight stainless (he ground off the hammer spur and worked on the trigger for me) I would try to get one of those .32's. It is a fine weapon!:mrgreen:

[AlaskaMike]

KCSO already mentioned what my suggestion would be--a 3" barreled S&W model 10. From what I've read they were pretty popular off-duty weapons in the 70's and 80's, and I've seen several on Gunsamerica.com and the other sites.

Probably the best thing though would be to ask her what she wants. She almost certainly already has thoughts on revolver vs. semi-auto, blued vs. stainless, etc. One year for her birthday I got my wife a beautiful 5" M&P along with a letter about it from Roy Jinks, the S&W historian. She liked it, but later told me that she's more interested in semi-autos than revolvers. :(

Mike

[Wayne Smith]

I'm gonna order a CZ 82 because I want one. However, I will let my soon-to-be daughter-in-law try it if she wants. The 9x18 round is not to be laughed at even if it's not fire and thunder. I have a couple of Makarovs she can try, a couple of S&Ws, a Colt or two, some .22s, etc. She will get something from either me or her father who also shoots.

If she likes the CZ I'll get another!

[Bret4207]

38 Special or 357 Mag (uses 38's) 5 or 6 shot revolver. I'd lean towards a K frame S+W, Ruger Security Six/GP100, Taurus clone, Colt Official Police. Any of the aforementioned in a 3-4" barrel conceals in most womens purses.

That being said I just picked up a 40S+W Witness (CZ75) for my wife. It's "silver" which matches her jewelry....

[Blackwater]

The biggest thing, if she ever has to use it, is that she hit, and hit dang close to dead center. All else if fluff. Therefore, it's really, Really, REALLY important that the gun fit her hand, and be comfortable, and that it point and handle well IN HER HANDS. For defensive use, a .38 Special with good ammo is good, as can be the 9mm. Know that this is a .45 auto fan/devotee saying that, if you will please.

If she's new to shooting, start out with mild loads, and pay particular attention to the muzzle blast, too!!! This is critical when introducing most women (and men as well) to shooting. Whenever I've trained women to shoot, and I've trained about a couple of dozen along the way, I've MADE, if I had to, them wear both plugs and muffs. Once they got them on, they quit complaining, and focused on the gun and the "bullets" I was loading in it.

The mind's a funny thing. It doesn't tend to notice things that it's not focused on very well. This can be used to her profit, though. With the muffs on, and with WC's or other mild loads, they'll usually be expecting a loud report. Therefore, the first thing I do is get them to tell them that they won't understand why I'm asking them to do this drill first, but that after they obey, they WILL understand. Then I ask them to point the gun down range at the target, then lower the gun so it's aimed at the ground about 45 degrees from level, and then to close their eyes and pull the trigger. Funny thing happens then, actually. With their eyes closed, they can't see the gun jump in recoil, and they feel little movement of the gun in recoil in their hand, and with the muffs and plugs, the report is learned to be something that's not nearly what their fears had been, and .... darned if they don't find the thing actually pleasurable to shoot AFTER learning that little detail.

Some laugh at this, but .... try it sometime. You won't laugh when she outshoots you .... and I HAVE had that happen a couple of times when I didn't try to do my best. Kinda' a tortise and hare thing, in a way.

Biggest thing to help induce accuracy in the hands of a newer shooter is to make SURE the grips FIT HER HAND. Much has been written on this, but briefly, just make sure the gun hits where it's pointed. Many people like grips that are actually too large for their hands. This puts the bones of the forearm out of line with the boreline of the gun, and this makes the gun shoot left or right, depending on whether the shooter is right or left handed. A little sandpaper can work wonders, and it's always surprising just how little wood removal it takes to make a significant difference in the way the gun fits and feels in the hand.

Auto or revolver, big caliber or small, these are the things that have proven over the years to be the biggest determinants of future effective use. When firing for real, after the above prep stage, you need for her to actually consider that a defensive situation COULD REALLY HAPPEN. This too, is a BIG step that we avid shooters usually take for granted, that we probably ought to weight much more heavily than we typically do, unfortunately.

If the gun fits her hand, chambers a bullet that will reach the vitals and disrupt vital things, then it's all eventually about her pointing and shooting it when and if she has to, and in doing so effectively. We shooters focus much more on the details and theory than on the practical things, which will actually determine the liklihood of good results if she has to use it. That's where the bulk of the attention should be.

We now live in a world where many people believe, whether they realize it sometimes or not, that simply buying such and such a gun will yield favorable results. Nothing's further from the Truth. It's the preparation and training that makes for favorable results MUCH more than what gun or caliber is used. Just get her what she LIKES, and she'll enjoy shooting it more, and be more willing to listen and learn. I also like to teach them how to at least field strip and clean the gun, noting things like making sure a revolver's ejector star's cleaned on the underside, and around the edges of the recess, so it'll always chamber a round. Having them think of the gun as just another tool helps the whole process, and when they leave, I've been told by several that they just marveled at how simple and pleasurable the experience was, usually noting with a smile that "I couldn't believe you started me out shooting with my eyes closed." That just added to the fun, though. I got that idea, BTW, when trying to teach a real flincher to shoot. She wouldn't wear the muffs or plugs at first, or listen much, but when she couldn't hit spit, I finally MADE her (cajoling didn't work, so I just INSISTED until she gave in) wear them, and then got the idea that she needed to just "feel" the process without any interfering sensory input from eyes or anything else that I could control. Danged if it didn't work. Surprised me as much as it did her, actually. I've done that ever since, and it's worked better than any other single thing I've tried to teach them. Words are weak, but an experience .... THERE, my friend, is what REALLY works, and feeling the mild "jump" and not getting their ears shattered realy, Really REALLY helps get them off to a good start, based on REAL things instead of their fears or "prior impressions," etc., that can and too often DO delay or eliminate much success that could be attained quicker, easier and better using the technique. Even if she's not "scared" of guns and the muzzle blast, the ladies (and men) I've trained have all benefited to at least some degree from this little "blind shot" drill.

Sorry for babbling on, but this little trick has worked so well for myself and some others that I just had to pass it on. After all, a good lady's life may be at stake, right?

[FISH4BUGS]

A Smith & Wesson Model 36 38 spl. 3" Square butt. A round butt if she has small hands, but the 3" is paramount. If you can find one, get the steel hammerless model 640 in 3". I haven't seen many of those, but the 36 is the perfect defensive gun. I got one for my girlfriend and she is starting to outshoot me with it.
The 3" barrel adds to controlability but does not take away from the concealability.
My dos centavos.........

[KSCowboy]

Howdy,

Here are my thoughts and personal experience in this area.

My wife wanted a handgun for self defense. She had shot a little but not a lot and didn't always want to go plinking or shooting constantly like I do.

I had her try various handguns of mine and I focused on primarily on double action revolvers for the reasons of simplicity and reliability. After shooting some and handling others in gun shops she settled on a S&W 642 Ladysmith. Well after shooting it a while she decided she didn't like it due to recoil, and keep in mind I was having her shoot mild reloads, and that her fingers were a little too long even with various grips. I loved it so I have kept it for myself.

So next was a Steyr 9mm. We had gone through all of the shooting, handling, etc. of the original tryouts and she thought that was what she wanted. Well after shooting it for a year or so she didn't like a couple things. First, she hated "those hot little things that come out of the top", especially after a couple of hot ones ended up in her cleavage! She also didn't like how hard for her it was to pull the slide back and she got downright upset and lost confidence in it when it jammed.

So it was back to the drawing board. I had her shoot everything I own and everything that my father owns, which between the two of us is quite a wide variety. Nothing was quite right for her. You can only imagine my frustration, which I kept entirely to myself as I didn't want her to get discouraged, as I can pick up about anything and shoot it. Of course I started shooting handguns at age 5 and spent the next 15 years shooting a couple of boxes of 22 rimfires every day (I grew up on a farm and was never without my Colt sixshooter, oh and I'm 51 now and still have that Colt). But I was beginning to think that I wasn't going to find anything that worked for her. And my wife is not a picky person so this whole process was frustrating for her as well.

One day we walked into a local gun shop and she was handling various items that she had or hadn't tried out before when I spied a S&W M-64 38 special with 3" barrel. This is the stainless steel version of the M-10. It was a used LEO trade in that had had the action slicked up. I asked to see it and then showed it to her. To my horror she closed the cylinder and pointed it at the wall and pulled the trigger about 3 times!!! Thank goodness it was a used gun! I wanted to tell her about the faux pas she had just made but she instantly loved it. So after further discussion and handling I bought it for her and gave them the Steyr 9mm to sell on consignment.

This gun fits her and she shoots it very well. Her only complaint was that the front sight wass difficult to see. I can second that so I had my gunsmith install a XS Big Dot Tritium front sight. He had to mill off the original forged front sight and part of the base and then cut a dove tail for it. This ruins it for the "purists" who might want to keep it all original but I don't care, it is a tool for her to use to save her life and I want it to work as best as possible for her. She can really see the front sight now and loves it. She loves the fit and feel of the gun. It has a heavy barrel and she doesn't mind the recoil.

So this is a long story to illustrate the fact that there is no simple answer and that what fits me doesn't fit her best and won't fit the next person, man or woman, best.

Also, what Blackwater is talking about above with regards to muzzle blast was a big deal to her. She didn't object to recoil as much as muzzle blast. The blast scared her and made her not want to shoot. Once we were able to tame the blast for her she would shoot up ammo like crazy. Heck, I ended up buying a Dillon Square Deal B just to load 38 specials for her.

[Bret4207]

Recoil and training are one of the reasons I bought the Witness for sugarplum. She WANTED and auto and thats all there is to that. But, the Witness takes 22 and 9mm barrels in addition to the 40S+W. I don't think this particular gun fits the 10mm and 45. I'll get the 22 setup and if the 40 proves too stout I'll get the 9mm. I'm kind of thinking of the 9mm anyway as I want to get her a Hi-Point Carbine.

I feel sorry for the loser that gets between my she wolf and her kids/property. Not a good place to be.

[Scrounger]

KSCowboy, I am surprised that she found something (else) that she likes, hopefully this won't change in a year or two. There are some people who just don't like shooting and we shouldn't try to force it on them, something bad will come of it. Another possible good choice for ladies might be one of the old High Standard Derringers in .22 Magnum. I wouldn't mind having one of them mysef but I can't find one at their list price of $39.95 (1960)...

[Scrounger]

Here is a link to the best choice, a Ruger SP101 in .357 Stainless. You could use .38 wadcutters in it.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8200916

Here is mine, my barrel is about 3/4"" longer than the one at the auction place.

[yeahbub]

I vote for the CZ-82 as well. Very well made and ergonomically well thought out with a staggered column mag for plenty in it. Two friends got into defensive pistol training just before the Y2K non-event and their wives went with them. One of the wives was less than satisfied with the weight of a P-35 and opted for a small-framed .38 stainless revolver. We all shot her new acquisition and none of us liked it. Her response to the recoil was visible shock and displeasure. She spent one session at the range and it hasn't seen the light of day since. She keeps it around but can't be brought to practice with it at all, prefering to shoot hubby's full-sized 9mm. She tried an acquaintance's Makarov and liked it pretty much. It's my understanding that good defensive ammo can be gotten in 9x18 these days which improves things a good bit.

[9.3X62AL]

My sister in MT has a SP-101 x 357, and shoots it pretty frequently. Her preference was 38 +P 158 grainers. On a visit in 1999, I let her try some of my agency's approved W-W 357 x 158 JHP, and her impression was, "Not bad, I'll get a box or two."

The SP-101 or a K-frame 38/357 is a tough-to-beat combo. If concealment is on the agenda, the 2.5"-3" might serve, but if that isn't a factor a 4" does good work. The ammo choices of 38 or 357 in factory loads is a real plus here.

The Makarov is one hell of a good pistol for the money. Its only drawback (no pun intended) is its heavy recoil spring tension--Marie has a little trouble with it, but can "William Tell" 9mm/40 S&W/ 45 ACP slides very easily. With the small sizes of so many 9mm compact pistols, the 380 ACP is likely to continue its steady decline in numbers of new pistols being produced.

[Bret4207]

The SP-101 or a K-frame 38/357 is a tough-to-beat combo. If concealment is on the agenda, the 2.5"-3" might serve, but if that isn't a factor a 4" does good work. The ammo choices of 38 or 357 in factory loads is a real plus here.


I don't know if all women are like SWMBO, but her purse resembles Fibber McGees closet or Mary Poppins carpetbag. I'm pretty sure she could fit 2 or 3 1911's in there with 8-10 extra magazines and still have room for her wallet, keys, phone, make up, 3 brushes, a pair of shoes, every medicine known to man, a copy of Cosmo, 37 assorted pens and pencils, enough Dramamine to knock out a small Central American nation and Gary Coleman, although what she'd want with a 35 year old little guy who's claim to fame is saying, "What 'choo talkin' 'bout Willis?" is beyond me........:roll:

[RugerFan]

My daughter won't turn 21 until March, so I have some time to think about it. With all the good feed back concerning the SP101, that may be the winner. I will try to get her to the range and let her shoot some different pistols ahead of time.

Anyway, if she didn't like the SP101, I could just keep it and get her something else [smilie=1:

[Joel Chavez]

S&W M64 or M65 with 3" tube loaded with 158gr SWC-HP will do wonders.:-D

[mooman76]

When dependability is a must, I would never suggest a Taurus. I've herd of too many issue whith their quality. I used to like them. I bought a new one and after a very short time had a problem. I fixed that and ended up with another problem so I sold it. I'll never buy a new one. Maybe an older one that has had the bugs worked out!

[redneckdan]

I would go with a 3-4" smith k frame with the standard wood grips, not the oversized target grips. My wife has tiny hands but she can shoot my 6" m-19 with the standard grips, I have to put the target grips on or the gun slides around in my big paws.

[scrapcan]

One thing I would suggest is to pay for and send her to a class put on by someone. Make sure that the class has godd instructors and that they know ahead of time that she needs to se/handle/shoot what ever she might like to try. Let her get some experrience without good ole dad around, you most likely will have a better outcome when you do take her to the range for a good day jus tto shoot.

One of the worst things I see is a husband/dad/boyfriend creating a situation that did not need to be.

You might also consider an older charter arms undercover (38spl) or undercoverette (32H&R). some people shake their head because it is not a smith, but my wife has one that is one of the most accurate and easy to carry guns we have. it is blued steel frame 5 shot. Dead simple lock mechanism. And seems to be very durable.

I also second the smooth wood grip if it fits.

[bc3660]

My daughter started shooting when she was 7. I had at the time 3 handguns a 38 Colt Det. Spl. , 92FS, And a 1911. She loved the 1911 and hated the rest. She still calls the 1911 "HER GUN".

[Snapping Twig]

I ran my daughter through a .45acp tactical pistol course when she was 16. She enjoyed it and we're going shooting this weekend. She's almost 20 now.

Training and familiarity with whatever weapon platform/caliber is #1, so best of luck with that part, I am certain you will have success.

That said, the Ruger SP or GP would be a good choice for durability and concealability, not to mention ammunition variety from wadcutters to 170g cast hunting loads. .357 will do it all.

No one has mentioned my personal favorite .357, the S&W 586/686. Get one in 3" and have at it! Durability, enough weight to dampen recoil, accuracy beyond reproach and the slick trigger action S&W is famous for.

My preference for anti goblin duties is a 5" 1911 with 230g Cast TC over 5.3g W231 - nice! Punches paper with a sweet round hole, big metplat transmits shock.

If your daughter is willing to do so, and you are willing to walk her through the training, perhaps a 1911 would be a choice?

[RugerFan]

I promise to post a pic of the happy girl with her new side arm.:Fire:

[9.3X62AL]

That's a good plan to let her try a variety of handguns before settling on Her One Best. Good luck on the search!

[redneckdan]

about 1911s. little changes like arched or flat main spring housing and grip thickness can drasticlly alter the feel of the gun to the shooter.

[yeahbub]

I second Manleyjt's suggestion about classes. There's an excellent defensive shooting school in Ohio, called the Tactical Defense Institute through which I've taken a number of courses.

http://www.tdiohio.com/

The instructors are knowledgeable, veteran trainers and police officers fully in favor of the idea that your safety is your concern first. They don't teach a run-of-the-mill concealed carry course. They're very big on winning and go much deeper than the basics. In my experience, the cost of the courses makes them a steal for what is taught and the quality of the instruction. My first level 1 handgun course was attended by myself, some friends, about 6 or 7 women (half of them were little old ladies) and a couple of police officers who weren't satisfied with their dept's training. Half the class barely knew which end the round came out of in the beginning, and by the end of the day were confident, enjoying themselves and asking to try each other's weapons to see what they were like.:-D They keep it interesting and keep it moving.

I was also grateful for the law portion of the course, which disabused me of some dangerous misconceptions of what is appropriate concerning the use of deadly force that I didn't know I had (TV will fill your brain with mush, even if one thinks one is careful to filter out the BS). What the law says and how it actually plays out in court, which can be very different. Also, how to view your house from a defense standpoint, having a "secure" room and other details.

Statistically, in 40% of armed confrontations, there will be multiple assailants, so when I familiarize new shooters who want to learn about the tools of "physical insurance", I try to teach them about reloading under stress. I reload an auto pistol way faster than a revolver and there's more in it. Fifteen rounds in two to four seconds beats five or six in 7 to 10 seconds when one is heaving and shaking. I'm very uncomfortable with letting someone go with the idea that five rounds will surely be enough. They may need to reload and very few neophytes do well reloading a revolver fast. Some are serious and will practice, some are clearly better off with an auto pistol.

[kellyj00]

taurus pt99 in stainless with the pearl grips.
Just have her look at a picture of one...