Question for you Blue Dot users

[Jack Stanley]

I'm going to load some two hundred forty-five grain semi-wadcutters soon . I've used Blue dot in the past at the starting level ( 13.5 - 14.0 ) and it does fine for the magnum experience . The question , is Blue Dot one of those powders you can reduce the charge without problems ?

What I'd like to do is throw the heavy bullets at about a thousand feet per second or so from my four inch Smith . It would be great if the same load would shoot to the sight of the carbine I have even though the carbine is adjusted for almost subsonic two hundred grain bullets .

Just for what it's worth , eleven grains of Unique is pretty close with the carbine sights . The down side is that is to much for good accuray from the revolver . The Smith likes ten grains Unique better . My thought is , using Blue Dot at a slow pace with the handgun would be good and the long barrel of the carbine it might get a little more velocity to hit where the sights are without adjustment .

Any ideas ??

Thanks , Jack

[dnotarianni]

blue dot and unique can be reduced without a problem except for maybe some eratic FPS at very low loads
Dave

[454PB]

I'm assuming .44 magnum?

I'm a big Bluedot fan, but it does get inefficient at pressures below about 20K. Your 13.5 - 14.0 grain loads work great in my guns, but if you drop much lower, you may see some unburned powder. You may want to look at Herco as an alternative to fit between BlueDot and Unique.

I was recently testing some .45 Colt (Ruger only) loads using the RCBS SAA 270 and Bluedot. I was in the 20K pressure ranges, and my chronograph was recording relatively small shot to shot velocity variations, but I noticed some unburned powder clinging to the mouth of the fired cases. Accuracy was good.

[Jack Stanley]

My apologies , yes it is forty-four magnum . If Blue Dot will be much of a problem perhaps I should look at another angle . The four inch Smith is great to carry in a shoulder rig while out doing chores . The lighter bullets I've been using are probably closer to the 44WCF loads . It would be nice to find a slightly heavier load but it's not a must .

Jack

[felix]

Very personal opinion, BlueDot needs to have its formula re-modified again until it behaves like its initial release in the 60s. It's speed range is excellent, and should be formulated to equal the temperature insensitivity and low-pressure cleanliness of the newest designs. ... felix

[Maven]

Jack, I've used 11.9grs. BD (what my Lyman rotor throws) in my 10.5" bbl'ed. Ruger SBH with both Ly. 429421 and RCBS' 250K with great success: accurate and tolerable recoil. In that long bbl., it generated 1,200 fps.

[Jack Stanley]

Thanks Maven , I was wondering if I could reduce one maybe two grains without problem . Perhaps I should "work down" slowly and see how it goes , the intended bullets are the RCBS 245 and a H&G 503 . All my Smiths and the marlin seem to like a .432 bullets size .

Jack

[Larry Gibson]

What I'd like to do is throw the heavy bullets at about a thousand feet per second or so from my four inch Smith . It would be great if the same load would shoot to the sight of the carbine I have even though the carbine is adjusted for almost subsonic two hundred grain bullets .

I've a sticky somewhere where I tested both Hercules and Alliant Blue Dot in the .44 Magnum. A search might find it or can repost.

As mentione Blue Dot gets a little inefficient down around what you want. Unique on the other hand is well suited to just that requirement. I suggest trying from 9 to 10.5 gr Unique under that 240 gr SWC (assuming a 44 magnum also?) That is a time tested load within revolver psi's for midrange 44 magnum loads and should shoot very well in the carbine also. I also suggest testing for accuracy in the Carbine and then that load will shoot fine in the revolver. Many times a load that shoots well, especially magnum level loads, don't shoot well in rifles because with the closed breach and longer barrels the PB'd cast bullet is pushed to fast for best accuracy.

Larry Gibson

[dougader]

I really liked a 240 swc with 15 grains of blue dot in 44 mag. (16 grains is max per Lyman). As stated, down loading is fine but bd burns much cleaner the closer you load to max.

[Jack Stanley]

Well Larry maybe I need to work down with the Unique because I tried a ten grain load and it was OK in the handgun , in the carbine it shot to low . I shot Blue Dot with twelve and a half and thirteen grains and the lighter load shot much better . Group with the carbine was nearly a cloverleaf at thirty-six yards and almost right where the sights were . The four inch revolver made a five inch group at the twenty-nine yard line .

The down side , cartridges a 1.700" are to long to feed from the Marlin , so I loaded another batch at 1.665" . It cycled through the action but may need to be seated deeper . I loaded some test rounds with twelve and twelve point five grains of Blue Dot , hope to test them tomorrow . i may try Unique again with the new seating depth .

It's still chilly out back to try and hold a revolver for groups .

Jack

[Kraschenbirn]

I've obtained quite satisfactory results with 11.5 gr. Blue Dot under a plain-base 240 gr SWC in my 1894 Marlin carbine. Just a tad on the dirty side with good accuracy (2"-2 1/2" @ 50M) and no leading.

Bill

[ebner glocken]

I tried blue dot a few weeks ago with 15 grains and a 240 Keith. In my 629 smith the recoil was harsh and the casings had to be pounded out with an aluminium rod one by one. The third round I touched off hit a flit rock about the size of a football, it shattered like it had been hit with an '06. Primers were smacked quite flat, the hodgen book showed 16.3 max, this was not in the "ruger only" data. No chronograph but I'm guessing they was pretty quick out of the 6". Bullets were sized to .431" with little lead fouling.

I backed off to 15.0 with no unburned powder left and zero fouling. I'm still expermenting. The main reason I started messing with blue dot lately is it seems to be one of the few powders available in my area. All shooting was very informal out the back door of the house at random rocks anywhere bewteen 60 and 75 yards.

I've always had good luck with unique, 231, and bullseye for my lighter 44 mag loading. At least I have enough 296 and 2400 sitting around for full tilt loads.

Ebner

[Jack Stanley]

Being a sucker for a deal sometimes , I fell prey to Pat's reloading when he had a batch of Blue dot at Knob Creek one year . I figured I could use it in magnum handgun and maybe some cast rifle loads and use it up .

Jack

[rststeve]

+1 for herco this is my go to powder for my 45 colt loads

[JIMinPHX]

When I tried to down load Blue Dot in the past, it got real spooky on me. By the time I got about a grain below book minimums, the velocity started going up instead of down. I stopped at that point & pulled all the lower end stuff apart. I haven't gone below book minimums with BD since then. That was probably close to 10 years ago.

[dougader]

I tried blue dot a few weeks ago with 15 grains and a 240 Keith. In my 629 smith the recoil was harsh and the casings had to be pounded out with an aluminium rod one by one. The third round I touched off hit a flit rock about the size of a football, it shattered like it had been hit with an '06. Primers were smacked quite flat, the hodgen book showed 16.3 max, this was not in the "ruger only" data. No chronograph but I'm guessing they was pretty quick out of the 6". Bullets were sized to .431" with little lead fouling.

I backed off to 15.0 with no unburned powder left and zero fouling. I'm still expermenting. The main reason I started messing with blue dot lately is it seems to be one of the few powders available in my area. All shooting was very informal out the back door of the house at random rocks anywhere bewteen 60 and 75 yards.

I've always had good luck with unique, 231, and bullseye for my lighter 44 mag loading. At least I have enough 296 and 2400 sitting around for full tilt loads.

Ebner

Did you mean to say 15 grains of Blue Dot both times in your post? I have the older Hercules Blue Dot. I ran anywhere from 13 to 16 grains of Blue Dot, standard large pistol primers ( I NEVER use mag primers with BD) and a 240 grain swc w/bevel base in my 629-2, four-inch revolver and none of the loads seemed too heavy to me. Fired cases fell easily from the chamber, even at 16 grains, with no signs of flattened primers or swelled/stretched cases.

When this last keg is gone, I am moving on to AA#9 and something like Longshot, Tru Blue and/or Power Pistol to fill the gap between 231, Universal, 3n37 and W296.

[Jack Stanley]

I shot the test loads I'd made up and twelve point five shot about as good as my eyes can direct the guns . The twelve grain load was a little better in the revolver but when shot in the carbine they wanted to string vertical .

The revolver showed a bit of leading in the barrel starting at the forcing cone . I'm thinking perhaps the bullets might be a bit hard for this velocity but since I'm sizing at .432" I wouldn't think it would be an issue . I've got another couple hundred bullets of this design and when they are gone I'll move on to a H&G 503 mold and start over . I am hoping to learn something about Blue Dot so I can implement a good load though .

Another possiblity is this early seventies vintage revolver hasn't been shot probably more than a thousand rounds . Perhaps it will clean up easier as it wears in , when the barrel is clean a tight patch on a rod feels about the same front to back so I don't think it has a constriction at the frame .

One more off the wall Blue Dot question , has anyone tried loading Remington two hundred-forty grain jacketed soft points with Blue Dot for mid range velocities ? In the forty-four magnum case of course , thanks .

Jack

[ebner glocken]

Did you mean to say 15 grains of Blue Dot both times in your post? I have the older Hercules Blue Dot. I ran anywhere from 13 to 16 grains of Blue Dot, standard large pistol primers ( I NEVER use mag primers with BD) and a 240 grain swc w/bevel base in my 629-2, four-inch revolver and none of the loads seemed too heavy to me. Fired cases fell easily from the chamber, even at 16 grains, with no signs of flattened primers or swelled/stretched cases.
When this last keg is gone, I am moving on to AA#9 and something like Longshot, Tru Blue and/or Power Pistol to fill the gap between 231, Universal, 3n37 and W296.

My mistake I ment to say I backed off to 14.0 with above results. All loads used federal large pistol primers, no mags.

Today I backed off to 13 grains. It was quite comfortable to shoot with little leading. No unburned powder left in barrel. The alloy is WQWW with my own lube. Lube is a 3 equal part mix of white petro, parifin, and beeswax. I need to chrono soon. If it looks good on paper this may be a winner.

[dougader]

Jack, I only have used BD in 44 mag with cast bullets. Looking in the Lyman 49th, they list data for 2 different 240 grain jhp bullets, the Sierra and the Speer. The Sierra has a start of 13.4 and MAX of 15.5 grains. The Speer (non-gold dot) has a start of 14.4 and a MAX of 16.0 grains.

The Speer manual itself has become much more conservative with their BD data across the board. Some of their older START charges are higher than the newer MAX loads in Speer 14. IIRC, it's because of the more sensitive testing equipment to test the max pressure/psi of loads as opposed to the older CUP/copper crush method used in older manuals.

Anyway, Speer 14 lists a MAX charge of BD with their 240 bullets of 13.7 grains (start load listed at 12.3 grains) and a COL of 1.575".

I hope that helps. Oh, when BD is downloaded it burns dirtier, leaving flakes behind. At higher pressures it burns very clean. I have seen the same with Unique also.

[Jack Stanley]

Thanks dougader , I've been cleaning up leftover supplies for a while before I start casting for this caliber again .... then I stumbled on this cache of Remington bullets . I guess I oughta find a load for them too huh?:smile:

Jack