30-30 Marlin bullet design [Archive]

DeadWoodDan

03-17-2013, 06:45 PM

NOE 311165 , also do a search for RanchDog, this was his design. This was designed for the Marlin. Good luck, lots of info here. I usually do lots of reading and very little posting because at some point someone has asked it and posted the results.

imashooter2

03-17-2013, 06:47 PM

Ranch Dog did quite a bit of work on the subject. His 165 grain design is very well regarded:

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/bin/TLC311165RF/bullet/sketch.jpg

For a conventional lube groove design, he offered this 170 grain design:

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/bin/C311170RF/bullet/sketch.jpg

runfiverun

03-17-2013, 07:27 PM

ranch dog ain't doin molds anymore, you are gonna have to look somehere else.
if you get a 311041 that pours 311 and 301 that will work too.

turmech

03-17-2013, 08:11 PM

I have and like the NOE copy of the Ranch Dog mold.

If you are looking for a cheap mold the Lee C309-170-F is a OK one or a C309-150-F would not be bad but I would try to find the heaver 170

JaxCatm

03-18-2013, 01:46 AM

I've designed a couple of my own pistol bullets for the 44 Spl but this micro groove thing is uncharted ground for me. I was thinking about something like the attached image.

JaxCatm

03-18-2013, 01:57 AM

I would have Tom at Accurate Molds cut it out of brass. He has assisted me many times in the past an is normally able to stear me away from mistakes. One of his cataloged designs modifyed to match the pistol I was shooting is producing 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups at 50 yards. He is one hell of a nice guy to work with.

uscra112

03-18-2013, 02:57 AM

Just got the NOE version of the RD 165 w/conventional loob grooves, after trying some that I bought from another CB member. Good bullet for both my .30-30s, (Marlin Microgroove, Savage 219), also works in my old, old .303 Savage (unsized), and with a slight tweak to the front band (a special sizoing die I made) it even works in my K31. What's not to like? Haven't cast any out of the NOE yet, but I have no complaints about other NOE moulds I have.

imashooter2

03-18-2013, 07:17 AM

I've designed a couple of my own pistol bullets for the 44 Spl but this micro groove thing is uncharted ground for me. I was thinking about something like the attached image.

Like I said, Ranch Dog has done the leg work. Microgroove in general likes them fat and hard.

**oneshot**

03-18-2013, 07:54 AM

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-170D-D.png

Here is the one I ordered. Tom will cut the bore ride section to your spec. His turn around time is pretty quick.

Dan Cash

03-18-2013, 10:00 AM

Lyman 31141 or copy thereof is what I would go for. I use it in Ballard and microgroove with equal success. Consistant 2 inch groups at 100 yards from a micro groove 336. Paper patch it an you will get those kind of groups with a 2300 fps muzzle velocity.

runfiverun

03-19-2013, 01:11 AM

jax.
the one you picture is pretty close to the rcbs 30-150-fngc.
except for the two lube grooves instead of one.
I really, really like the 150 in my 30-30's in my 0-6's too.
some think it's a bit light,i really favor it and even use it for hunting.
I make up the weight difference with velocity.

badbob454

03-19-2013, 01:17 AM

also the noe 311-175 saeco clone #315 super accurate in my sks mine is the same mold , made to .314 diam..it does have a smaller metplate , so ranch dog or 311041 would be better for hunting . but may suffer in bc

RickinTN

03-19-2013, 08:05 AM

I've designed a couple of my own pistol bullets for the 44 Spl but this micro groove thing is uncharted ground for me. I was thinking about something like the attached image.

I have both the NOE 311165 "Ranchdog" and the NOE 311041 copy. The 311041 "fits" my many 336's better as far as throat and crimp-groove dimensions than the Ranchdog bullet. I would have to trim my cases to well under 2" to get the Ranchdog bullet to crimp in the groove and still chamber. The 311165 Ranchdog shoots well though. Your design looks very similar to the Ranchdog 311-170RF which was a late development from Ranchdog and didn't have the opportunity to become as popular as the 311165. From what I know your design should fit the 336 chambers and throats much better than the 311165, at least in my rifles. I have one 30cal mold from Tom at Accurate and it is "spot-on" as far as the dimensions I specified. The quality of the mold is excellent as well. I've been thinking about having him do a slightly modified copy of the 311-170 for me with one cavity gas checked, and another the same bullet plain based.
Good Luck with your choice,
Rick

.429

11-07-2013, 07:37 PM

which mould on NOE's site is the 311041? i need a good mould for my marlin microgroove and was gonna get the RD, but now you have me second guessing
I have both the NOE 311165 "Ranchdog" and the NOE 311041 copy. The 311041 "fits" my many 336's better as far as throat and crimp-groove dimensions than the Ranchdog bullet. I would have to trim my cases to well under 2" to get the Ranchdog bullet to crimp in the groove and still chamber. The 311165 Ranchdog shoots well though. Your design looks very similar to the Ranchdog 311-170RF which was a late development from Ranchdog and didn't have the opportunity to become as popular as the 311165. From what I know your design should fit the 336 chambers and throats much better than the 311165, at least in my rifles. I have one 30cal mold from Tom at Accurate and it is "spot-on" as far as the dimensions I specified. The quality of the mold is excellent as well. I've been thinking about having him do a slightly modified copy of the 311-170 for me with one cavity gas checked, and another the same bullet plain based.
Good Luck with your choice,
Rick

Beagle333

11-07-2013, 08:18 PM

I got the RD, but am interested in the 041 as well. I don't see it either. :lovebooli

.429

11-07-2013, 10:59 PM

looks like it was a group buy...maybe?

.429

11-07-2013, 11:05 PM

so now i'm wondering if the Lyman drops a .311 it is listed as a .309 most ppl seem to say that the microgroove likes a .311

Ben

11-08-2013, 07:35 AM

Yes, for right now he ( Al ) is out of stock. However , if you'd like to look at the bullet, here it is :

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=296

.429

11-08-2013, 08:28 AM

nice!
Yes, for right now he ( Al ) is out of stock. However , if you'd like to look at the bullet, here it is :

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=296

rattletrap1970

11-08-2013, 08:35 AM

Right now I'm using a 311284 (222gr), it cant be mag fed, but singly loaded shoots really good. I definately would like to try the 311041 and if it does well I'd get a 5 cavity mold.

Dan Cash

11-08-2013, 01:22 PM

The .31141 with gas check or paper patched is the best I have found for the two Marlins I load for. One is Ballard and the other is Micro-groove. Make final dimension .310 or .311.

The mould I have is an older Lyman and bullets drop right at .3105 with my alloy. I am going to have Accurate Molds cut a 4 banger to the same spec.

.429

11-08-2013, 10:03 PM

what is the difference between the 31141 and the 311041?
The .31141 with gas check or paper patched is the best I have found for the two Marlins I load for. One is Ballard and the other is Micro-groove. Make final dimension .310 or .311.

The mould I have is an older Lyman and bullets drop right at .3105 with my alloy. I am going to have Accurate Molds cut a 4 banger to the same spec.

codgerville@zianet.com

11-08-2013, 10:26 PM

what is the difference between the 31141 and the 311041?
They are the same, Lyman just added the 0.

.429

11-09-2013, 07:59 AM

oh ok! i have seen them both mentioned on here many times, but was never sure. thanks for clarifying
They are the same, Lyman just added the 0.

725

11-09-2013, 09:30 AM

bhn22

11-09-2013, 10:53 AM

.429

11-09-2013, 03:01 PM

would lyman #2 alloy be hard enough in your opinion?
Lyman 311291 is a favorite, if you can find one that casts big enough for Marlins, my personal favorite is RCBS 30-180-FN. You'll need something that casts at .311 min, and you'll want the bullets cast pretty hard. I size to .311, and cast bullets hard for microgroove when I have them.

fatnhappy

11-10-2013, 01:18 PM

I guess the first thing I would ask the OP is what is your intended use. I'm with Dan Cash, I have a micro groove of recent manufature and a 1950's marlin with real rifling. The micro groove shoots as well or better than the fat forearm 50's version. My advice, chamber as fat a boolit as the chamber allows. Since there won't be any nose support for your design choice avoid "bore riders". Maximize your bearing surface, think loverins. It's all about fit.

I actually have a very well dimesioned 311041 that shoots exceedingly well in every rifle in which it's been tried, to include several members here to whom I've loaned the mould. An excellent hunting boolit as it may be, I prefer the 311291 for plinking and general fun shooting. Ownership of a 5C NOE clone 311291 capable of casting scads of boolits makes the decision easier. I'm pushing ACWW to slightly more than 1800 fps out of the micro groove and accuracy is excellent.

waco

11-12-2013, 10:15 PM

Lyman 311041

RickinTN

11-12-2013, 10:56 PM

If foggy memory serves, I though Al (NOE) said he would eventually get around to do the copy of RD's 311-0170-RF at some future date. I've been waiting & hoping for him to offer it. In the mean time, if you can get any other offerings from his shop, you won't be disappointed.

Tom at Accurate molds has the Ranchdog 311-170 cataloged as the 31-170R. The 31-170S may be a better version with two lube grooves and more bearing surface.

Rick

rintinglen

11-14-2013, 03:08 PM

Although a little on the light side for some, I have an NOE 311-466 that shoots very well when cast from Lyman No.2 equivalent and lubed with Bens Red. Over 17.0 grains of 2400, it shoots to limit of my ability. I can do no better with peep sights than this load performs.

robertbank

11-14-2013, 03:31 PM

I too have very good luck with my 311041 boolit from Lyman. I cast from WW. water quench and size the .311. Happy with 1 - 2 inch groups out to 100 yards with my micro grooved 336 at approx 1750 fps.

I May try some of the 311291 boolits as well.

Take Care

Bob

KyBill

11-14-2013, 11:00 PM

I reload a lot of 30-30 for Marlin 336 lyman 311291 Hollow point Hunting loads Levers quit well also (311041 for friends winchester)

geargnasher

11-14-2013, 11:06 PM

Accurate Molds already has cataloged designs for most of the things mentioned here, and can be ordered to cast any size with any alloy one could want. This includes several RD -type designs. I'm plugging Accurate here because many people seem to forget that there's anywhere else to go other than MiHec for premium, custom moulds.

Gear

Wolfer

11-14-2013, 11:39 PM

My 336 was shipped in 66. Bore slugs 308. My Lyman 311041 casts my soft alloy at 309. I size to 309 and 17 gr of 2400 gets me 1700 fps. With the 4x scope I had on it 10 shot groups would usually stay below 2" @ 100 yds. Lots of three shots at an inch.
From what I read on here marlins run big in the bore but mines right where I need it to be.

cattleskinner

11-15-2013, 02:03 AM

Check out the closeout section of the Lee reloading company website. They have the ranchdog .311-165 mold listed for just over fifty dollars, says it is an over run.

Four-Sixty

11-16-2013, 10:11 AM

Thank you Cattleskinner, I just bought one from Lee. I used the link from the banner at the top of this page. After I get a .311 push through, I'll crank them out!

Terrence Clarke

11-21-2013, 06:07 PM

I am using the accurate molds 311165D by Tom in Marlin xlr,but my barrel groove size is .310 so i got Tom to change it to 312165D ,all driving bands are .312 and works very good with 26 grains of ADI2206H

.429

11-21-2013, 06:21 PM

w30wcf

11-22-2013, 09:28 AM

Lyman 311291 is a favorite, if you can find one that casts big enough for Marlins, my personal favorite is RCBS 30-180-FN. You'll need something that casts at .311 min, and you'll want the bullets cast pretty hard. I size to .311, and cast bullets hard for microgroove when I have them.

Those are two of my favorites as well. Regarding the diameter for a micro grooved barrel I have found that in my 336A .30-30 made in 1977 (.308" groove / .300 bore) a .309" bullet shoots very well....pretty much as good as a .311". If one's individual rifle has a larger groove then the standard .001"-.002" over groove diameter is very good....same as in a conventional barrel.
Actually, for the very best accuracy, having a bullet the same diameter as the throat is the best.

Regarding hardness ...... I have found that my 336A will shoot a softer bullet better than a conventional 6 groove barrel. Obviously it has twice the purchase on the bullet (12 grooves .004" deep vs 6 grooves .004" deep). Years ago I ran a test using a 10 bhn bullet in both barrels. As the velocities increased, I found that the micro groove held the accuracy for 200 f.p.s. more than the 6 groove......

w30wcf

w30wcf

11-22-2013, 09:34 AM

would lyman #2 alloy be hard enough in your opinion?

In my 336A micro groove I find that std w.w. + 2% tin (12 bhn) will do just fine at up to 1,800 f.p.s. (170 -180 gr bullet)
For 2,000+ f.p.s. Lyman #2 (90-5-5) (16 bhn) would be the better choice.

w30wcf

w30wcf

11-22-2013, 09:41 AM

I guess the first thing I would ask the OP is what is your intended use. I'm with Dan Cash, I have a micro groove of recent manufature and a 1950's marlin with real rifling. The micro groove shoots as well or better than the fat forearm 50's version. My advice, chamber as fat a boolit as the chamber allows. Since there won't be any nose support for your design choice avoid "bore riders". Maximize your bearing surface, think loverins. It's all about fit.

I have found the same thing to be true - 4 groove VS current 12 groove micro groove but as far as bullet diameter goes the standard .001-.002" over groove diameter suggested for conventional rifling works just as good in a mg - at least in my rifle.

My 336A (1977) has a .300" bore diameter so bore riders shoot just fine. Not so with the earlier (pre 1968) micro-groove which had a larger bore diameter of .305" or so. In those the Loverins work the best as you indicated.

w30wcf

singleshot

11-22-2013, 11:50 AM

All, Lee is now building the RD design as a six cavity. That is my favorite boolit for the 30-30. It fits the short throat of the Marlin 336 perfectly. Someone mentioned having trouble with this boolit in their 336, which makes me think something is wrong. I that a much older 336? Is the chamber correct?

.429

11-22-2013, 11:54 AM

singleshot

11-22-2013, 03:51 PM

is the Lee RD a gc boolit?

Yes, take a look at it at leeprecision.com.

singleshot

11-22-2013, 03:53 PM

Keep in mind, the RD boolit was specifically designed for the Marlin 336 30-30 to maximize powder capacity and accuracy. I have nothing but praise for that boolit!

Tom Myers

11-23-2013, 10:10 AM

is the Lee RD a gc boolit?

Yeah!! Nice!! Look here:

http://leeprecision.com/new-6-cavity-tlc311-165-rf.html

glock_556

12-08-2013, 06:46 PM

Yes, for right now he ( Al ) is out of stock. However , if you'd like to look at the bullet, here it is :

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=296

Do you have to shoot this boolit with a gas check?

YunGun

12-09-2013, 12:33 PM

Do you have to shoot this boolit with a gas check?

I'll try to head off the inevitable scolding with a brief explanation & a couple links back to the original thread(s).

Just FYI that type of question, while innocuous enough, tends to be poorly received around here simply because it has been asked (& answered) countless times before. (If you care to know more about the 'why', try this thread (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?222520-Why-some-new-members-will-do-better-than-others-here))

In a word, the answer is NO, but I encourage you to visit (& read through) the "Classics & stickies (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?35-Classics-amp-Stickies)" subforum. The threads found there are 'stickied' because they contain a vast & indispensable array of knowledge about virtually every conceivable topic relating to casting/handloading, and may answer many questions before you even know how to ask them.

There, among other things, you will find an entire thread devoted to that specific question: "Gas Check Boolits without Gas checks?" (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?48857-Gas-Check-Boolits-without-Gas-checks) that will elaborate further.

Good luck!