.41 Swiss reloading problems

[Battis]

I'm reloading .41 Swiss for a Vetterli. I bought the Lee .41 dies and made some cases from Winchester .348 brass. I'm working on getting the exact length for the cases. I cast some
.430310 bullets and tried seating them into formed cases. This is where I'm having trouble.
(I'm new to reloading. I've only reloaded 50-70s.)
1st - the bullets are seating at an angle. Is the "seater" inside the die supposed to be loose?
2nd- I cannot get a crimp. How do you crimp a case?
Thanks.

[salpal48]

I also have dies for the Swiss. the seater stem should not be loose . on the lee there is no lock nut. Maybe your stem is up to high
as for the crimp
Run the die down and the case gently up until the sizes cases reaches the crimp ring . its by feel. then back off 1/4 to 1/2 turn . Then start seating the bullet by bringing the stem down. Then when the bullet get seated appox where you want it adjust the entire die down that 1/2 turn and see how the roll crimp is . not too tight and not too loose. It's all by feel and how you like and practice
Hope this helps
Sal

[Battis]

The seater flops around in the die from side to side. When I unsrew the clamp nut, it comes right out and is in two pieces. Maybe it's broken?
I'l try again. Thanks.

[Dan Cash]

It is broken.

[Battis]

Yeah, that makes sense. The seated bullets look like they can shoot around corners.
Thanks.

[Battis]

salpal48 (or any Swiss .41 reloaders):
Do you crimp the Swiss .41? Is it necessary?

[salpal48]

If your going to load in the tubular mag a proper crimp wold be necessary to hold the bullet from sliding back under pressure from the mag . But if your loading single shot it won't matteras long as the bullet is tight
sal

[Battis]

I'd like to use the magazine. I don't think I can get a crimp with this busted die. I'll contact Lee tomorrow.

[elk hunter]

I'd like to use the magazine. I don't think I can get a crimp with this busted die. I'll contact Lee tomorrow.


The die isn't broken, that's the way they're made. I'm not very satisfied with mine either, but they're what's available and they are cheap. If I shoot my Vetterli very much I'll make a seating die or see if there is some better die set available.

[Nobade]

After buying a set of the Lee dies I decided they are pretty much useless. The sizer makes a case that looks absolutely nothing like the chamber in my rifle, the seater is pointless, and even the shell holder is the wrong size. They gave me one for the 45-70. So, here's what I did. First is to make cases out of 8mm Lebel using Privi brass from Graf. Since the neck area of the chamber is tapered, I first cast the bore to figure out what size boolit to use. Ended up being .433". So I cut the cases off to allow a boolit that size to enter the mouth. That ended up being 1.6 inches. Fireform cases with red dot and cream 'o' wheat, and afterward they never get resized. A full load of black powder sets the seating depth, and the boolit can't telescope back into the case. Boolits are hand seated, and don't fall out. They are loose, and can be moved around by hand. But when chambered the barrel centers them and they consistently shoot into less than 3 inches at 200 yards. The black powder loads track to the sights, and hits all the way out to 800M are not too hard.

I realize you are using smokeless powder and have to find a way to keep the cartridge from collapsing. That's fine, but using black powder really does solve a lot of problems with these rifles, make your life easier, and they shoot amazingly well that way. Just more information to think about...

-Nobade

[Battis]

I'm going to use black powder. I've only reloaded for a 50-70 and a Gallagher .54, so BP is all I know.
So the dies are made that way? I finally got it in a position to be useable as far as seating the bullet.
I have some Cerrosafe on the way so I can cast the chamber. I cast some .430310 bullets but they might be too big (I'm going to slug the bore again). The Winchester .348 brass that I used is too wide in a few spots, but I think it might work. I'd like to try the Lebel 8mm brass if I can find it.
I bought a used .44mag expander die for $5.00 yesterday and it works great.
I wanted a winter project gun and I got one.
Thanks for the info.

I called Lee Precision and they said it's a floating seater. I was hoping it was broken.

[Chicken Thief]

I have altered my seater stem so it only touches the flat nose of the boolit.
As others have stated the sizer is nowhere near what a Vetterli chamber looks like. I used it exactly 200 times when i made new brass for my rifles.
The 69/71 has a tight chamber and uses 8x50R as it is a smidgen smaller around the base, the 78 uses 348.
My brass is @42mm in both and they shoot a Ranchdog .432"-370gr boolit over 55gr SW #4 and a cardwad.

The funny thing is that the Swiss has no throat! The chamber just tapers into the rifling. That might make it a challenge to seat the boolit correct at first. Exact length is paramount if mag feeding is a must, but normally i only load one round at a time into the elevator. One in the chamber, shoot, one in the elevator and reload the rifle.

Photobucket is down so pics later.

[Nobade]

I'm going to use black powder. I've only reloaded for a 50-70 and a Gallagher .54, so BP is all I know.
So the dies are made that way? I finally got it in a position to be useable as far as seating the bullet.
I have some Cerrosafe on the way so I can cast the chamber. I cast some .430310 bullets but they might be too big (I'm going to slug the bore again). The Winchester .348 brass that I used is too wide in a few spots, but I think it might work. I'd like to try the Lebel 8mm brass if I can find it.
I bought a used .44mag expander die for $5.00 yesterday and it works great.
I wanted a winter project gun and I got one.
Thanks for the info.

I called Lee Precision and they said it's a floating seater. I was hoping it was broken.

Oops - since someone mentioned boolits falling into the cases I assumed you were planning on using smokeless. It's good you're using black, it makes so many things so much easier with these rifles!

I was shooting the #446110 Lyman boolit, sized down to .433" and shot naked. It worked rather well but needed blow tubing between shots. Then I made a mould that throws a .425", 320gr. roundnose slick. That patches to .433" also, and loaded so the powder is compressed with a card wad (7/16") to the base of the neck, case used to cut a lube cookie, and another card wad the boolit is in the case about .100". These shoot amazingly accurately, and don't need blow tubing. The ammo is sort of delicate in that the boolits flop around but once chambered they're nicely centered and work fine. With that tapered case there can't really be any neck tension because if the boolit will enter the case it's not being touched at all just a little way in.

-Nobade

[Battis]

I had no idea when I bought this gun that there were so many variations in chamber size, bullet size, etc. I thought the toughest part would be converting it to centerfire, but that was relatively easy. I had wanted to use the chamber but I might just shoot it single shot. I tried using Cerrosafe today but I messed it up - I probably had it too hot (it would not come out of the rifle until I reheated it).
Thanks for all the good info.

[Battis]

Fireforming is intriguing, but I've never tried it. So, you cut the case to length, load it with powder and a filler, fire it off and the force of the firing forms the case to the shape of the chamber? No dies involved? Do you have to anneal the brass first?
Would it work with Winchester .348 brass?
Graf is out of Lebel 8mm.

[Chicken Thief]

I use a 357 case full of fast powder then fill up with corase corn flour and tip of with a dullop of hot glue.
Yeah annealing is a good idea ie. no splits at all.

Here's a shortned 348. It needs fl sizing not fireforming.
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/R0010646.jpg

Pic of the seater stem before i turned it down
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/R0010667.jpg

After
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/R0011318_zpsc053ed7c.jpg

Original boolit
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/Vetterli-Giesskokilen-2.gif

Original chamber drawing
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/41swisschamber.jpg

Trimmed my 348 in the lathe
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/R0010643-1.jpg

[Battis]

Those specs will definitely help. I just cast the chamber with beeswax and paraffin and it came out really well. It does not look like the case sized with the Lee dies but pretty close. Single shot will be good until I figure out what I'm actually doing.
I should get a lathe, but then I'd have to find a lathe forum to learn how to use it.

[Battis]

Here's another basic reloading question...
I slugged the Vetterli bore - it measured out at approx. .430. I cast some Lee .430 bullets and seated one in a case formed from Winchester .348. The overall length of the .41 cartridge should be 2.2". The dummy round I made up is shorter than that, but it will not fit in the chamber -I can't close the bolt (the case fit without the bullet). Is it as simple as going to a smaller diameter bullet?

[Chicken Thief]

Nope what you are suffering from is way thick brass.
I did that too and ended up reaming the necks.
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/R0010654.jpg
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/R0010656.jpg

That is one of the "issues" with a no throat chamber.
What case length are you using?

[Battis]

Maybe the case is too long. It measures 1.66". Every time I try to chamber the dummy cartridge the bullet gets pushed in more. The overall length is down to 1.88" and the bolt won't close.

[Nobade]

That is why I picked 1.6" long for the cases. At that length they would accept the size boolit I wanted to use, .433" Of course this is with 8mm Lebel cases, if you use 348 the length may be different.

The nose on that Lee boolit is really fat, you may have to seat it shorter. The normal boolit has quite a taper to it judging from Chicken Thief's drawing. Oh, Accurate Molds does list that exact same boolit in their catalog.

-Nobade

[Battis]

The case fits without the bullet, but it hangs up when ejected. I put some red die on the case, then chambered it and when it came out I noted where the die was worn. I took some brass off those high spots and it ejected better. But I still think the case is too long. I was thinking that maybe a .429, even a .427 bullet might work better, but then again, it might be too small.
I'll try a shorter case.

[Nobade]

With black powder and soft boolits, anything between bore diameter and groove diameter can be made to work and shoot accurately. The wad stack becomes more critical as the boolit diameter gets smaller, to keep any gas from blowing past the boolit until it seals the bore. Just keep playing with it until you find what you like. I suspect there are quite a few ways to get there. Once you get it up and running you will be impressed at how accurate and pleasant these rifles are to operate.

-Nobade

[Chicken Thief]

I would adress the case thickness issue before experimenting with boolits to small. You dont need the trouble it might bring.
Trim a case a little shorter and see if that helps seating a finished cartridge succesfully.
If all else fails then an adjustable reamer costs under $20.

[Battis]

I think that a shorter, resized case would position the section of the brass that was too tight a little lower, which would make the case fit better.
And the more I think about it, the bullets are a good size at .430.
Newbie question - why would you ream the inside of the case and not turn it down on the outside?

[MT Chambers]

Yeah, that makes sense. The seated bullets look like they can shoot around corners.
Thanks.

Lee dies are not made to conform to any particular chamber, if the loaded round chambers, you're ahead of the game. I could never figure out how that seating die could seat a bullet to a consistant depth, so don't sweat it, go out and shoot!!

[Battis]

I contacted Track of the Wolf (where I bought the dies) and asked them about that seating die, and why it won't seat the bullets straight. They said that I must have bought the last one because they couldn't find one to examine (they told me to call back in two or three weeks). I called Lee Precision and talked to a technician and he said it was because the bullet was flat (Lee .430310) - they can make a custom seater die for me.
Anyways, today I formed another .348 Winchester case and cut it to 1.60" and filed down the neck a little, filled it with grits, seated a bullet (not a very deep seat) and it chambers and ejects pretty good, though it's a little too short for the magazine, and it doesn't have a crimp. I think I might be on my way to actually shooting this rifle.
I shoot my Mosin Nagant single shot, so what the heck.
Would the Lebel 8mm brass work better?

[Nobade]

It works a lot better in my rifle. I can't chamber a 348 case (trimmed down of course) without some serious swaging of the solid part of the head. The 8mm Lebel fits like it's made for it. Of course every one of these rifles seem to be different...

-Nobade

[Battis]

When I finally shoot this rifle, I'll have to apologize to all Swiss gunmakers and their ancestors for some of the really bad things I said.
You watch - I'll get it shooting, load a bunch of ammo and someone will come out with new rimfire ammo.

[I'll Make Mine]

You watch - I'll get it shooting, load a bunch of ammo and someone will come out with new rimfire ammo.

Even if they do, why would you want to spend that kind of money per round when you can reload the centerfire stuff for the converted rifle? It's not going to be .22 LR price, after all...

[Battis]

That is true - it'll be pricey. The store where I bought my Trapdoor had one box of 20 rounds (50-70) for $85.00. I'm guessing the .41 rimfire would be up there in price.

[Battis]

Is there a rule of thumb or guideline as to how much brass you can remove from a casing? The neck of the reformed .348 Winchester brass is where this cartridge is hanging up. With a file and a drill press, I removed enough so that the round chambers and ejects perfectly. I plan to anneal them before I shoot them.

[Chicken Thief]

No rule, but!
The 38-40 and 44-40 cases are thinwalled and prone to collapsing. The thin brass comes from the use in rifles and that BP should make enough pressure for the case to expand and seal the chamber.
But then again you will newer need to size again in you only use BP.

As i said an adjustable reamer:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=adjustable+reamer&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313&_nkw=adjustable+reamer+13%2F32%22-7%2F16%22&_sacat=0

[Battis]

The overall length of the original cartridges was 2.2" (to use in the magazine). That was with a pointed, tapered bullet. I don't know how you could get that overall length with the shorter, flat nosed .430 bullet. You would need a longer case and the .348 Winchester brass just doesn't fit if it's too long. Maybe Lebel 8mm brass would work better with this bullet.
Single shot will work with a shorter case and flat nosed bullet.
Or, am I missing something?

[Chicken Thief]

Anything that the rifle will swallow is ok in single shot mode, but 2.2" is as you say a must for mag feeding.
I use a Ranchdog 432-370-RF boolit with great results in 42mm~1.65" brass.
Top case is 38mm~1.5" length.
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/R0010830.jpg
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/R0010622.jpg

5 shots at 50m~55yds
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/R0010689.jpg

Here's what i got from the reamer. From .425" to @ .430"
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/R0010654.jpg
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/Vetterli/R0010655.jpg

[Battis]

That bullet makes more sense than this one that I use: (without the gas check)
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/238/1/LEE-90858

[Chicken Thief]

I got that boolit in a 6-banger. I reamed out the GC stem but did'nt like the slightly undersize boolit. Ant it carries way to little lube to be any good. Maybe a grease cookie is in order?
Oh btw i burn 55grains of Swiss #4 (1½f), ymmw.

[Battis]

I have plenty of homemade lube - beeswax and paraffin. Would you use a card over the powder? Nevermind - that's a no brainer.
If the bore measures approx. .429 - .430, would the Ranchdog .432-370 work?

[Chicken Thief]

Yup, but he's out of buisness.
Go to the thrift store and look for womens felt hats.
Punch wads and soak them in lube.
Use as "grease cookies"

[Battis]

Another oddball question (have I passed my limit yet?) - when using a resizing die, .430 for example, how large of a bullet can you start with to resize down to that diameter?

[Nobade]

If the lead is soft, the grooves full of lube, and the sizer is dimensioned and finished properly, you can size down a boolit a surprising amount. I was sizing the Lyman .446" 1mm Mauser boolits to .433" in one pass with no problems.

For felt, go here:
http://www.durofelt.com/

If you call and tell the lady what you are doing (need felt for making wads used in guns) she will sell you a $20 sheet that is good for at least 10 years. Wonderful lady to deal with!

-Nobade

[Battis]

I was looking at a 45-70 bullet that measures .456 and wondering if I could size it down to .430 using one die (I've never used a sizing die).
Thanks for the info on the felt. I will give her a call.

[Nobade]

That may take a couple of passes, but try it and see. If the base rivets over and shears a ring of lead off you know it'll take multiple dies.

-Nobade

[Battis]

Buffalo Arms sells a .41 Swiss mold for around $160. A Lee 45-70 mold and a .430 sizing die would be under $50. The 45-70 bullet has a tapered nose that should work better than the flat nosed bullet I'm using.

[I'll Make Mine]

Lee also sells a 310 grain .44 mold (.430, C430-310-RF, similar to those pictured up thread but grease groove with gas check shank -- easily removed if not wanted -- instead of tumble ribs) that could be Leemented a few thousandths (if it doesn't cast oversize, as both of the Lee molds I have do). I have a .314 that drops at .317 with clip-on wheel weights at alloy and mold temps that produce a good fill and shiny boolit (don't have a thermometer that works in this range), and a .309 that drops .311+; that would suggest the same setup with a .44 mold ought to drop around .434 to .435 from a nominal .430 mold, if they're all cut the same way. That, in turn, would be just about right for sizing to .433 without worrying about sizing too much.

[Battis]

How hard would it be to "add" a nose to the bullet mold that I have? I have a Dremel, a Sawzall and some dynamite.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/238/1/LEE-90858

[I'll Make Mine]

If you have a ball end mill that fits past the lube grooves, it might be possible to "round over" the nose of that mold. You'll wind up with about a 325 grain if you do that, and of course you'll have to seat deeper to control OAL if you want/need to feed from the magazine. I don't think I'd use a Dremel to do it, though, and the Sawzall and dynamite are right out... :groner:

[Nobade]

I have been getting good results making boolit moulds using "D" reamers, but haven't tried recutting an existing mould. Might be worth a try though.

-Nobade

[Battis]

I've made the case as long as I can at about 1.60" (I take some of the neck down with a file and drillpress. I don't want to make the neck any thinner). And that short, flat nose bullet can't be seated any more shallow than I have it or it'll topple out. The overall length comes up around 2.1", which is just not long enough for that finicky chamber. A longer bullet would be great, so if I can cut a tapered nose in the mold, it should work fine.
I should just shoot it single shot for now and not worry about the chamber. Actually I'm just stalling - the gun club road is closed to vehicles due to ice, snow and mud (you can hike in), but I don't want to lug that cannon 2 miles to the range.

[Chicken Thief]

@ Battis

Start with what you have and make it shoot/work!!!!!!!!

Fouling is the main culprit.
Some whipe between shots.
Some add enough (to much) lube to hold the slag soft.
Some use a blowtube.
But it boils down to keeping the barrel "clean" and in shooting condition. When slag builds up the barrel will turn smooth bore fast and will be a biatch to get clean again!

[TheCounty]

Hi Battis.
Just tagged onto this thread & hope to help more than confuse.
Originally these bullets were of a "heeled" type, that is the diameter of the base of the bullet for the first 1/4 inch is .010" smaller than that of the main body. This gave a "step" or ridge to which the rim of the case butted up against. The original profile is smooth in transition as are .22 lr . Just make sure the bumped up diameter of your case after loading a bullet is not to large for the chamber at the case mouth. Unlikely, as many use regular bullets with great sucess, ... but.... jamming the case tight on the bullet in the gun can spike pressures to unsafe levels. My chamber is on the tight side so I have to use a heeled original style bullet & cannot see ever using other. I also use shortened 348 Win cases. Where ever you finish up, the cartridge should drop easily & fully into the chamber.
As for my Lee die, it works excellent. However the expander only opens the mouth up to .419" . This works fine when loading the .421" heeled dia. I am using.
I can imagine trying to shove a .430" dia bullet into this size would cause the cocking you mention. Also, chamfering the inside of the cases is a must.
As for loads, I use 19.5 grains of SR4759. This topped with a 1/4 sheet of TP (toilet paper) , tucked/folded in gently to keep the powder uniform against the primer. Gives the same velocity as 21.0 grains without the TP, but with an extremely lower standard deviation in velocity on the chonograph & nice groups. As always start a bit less & work up. Also, Lee alox for lube works fine.
Wishing you luck, & they are a lovely old rifle to shoot when sorted.
Cheers
TheCounty
ps You gotta make lotsa ammo, cuz everyone will want a bunch of turns :D

[Battis]

The bore slugged out at approx. .430. The bullet is .430. If I use a 1.6" case, formed from Winchester .348 and filed slightly at the neck, the cartridge chambers and ejects perfectly. Without thinning the neck, it chambers but won't eject. Any longer case will not chamber or eject properly. Which means that, with that short, flat bullet, I can't use the magazine.
Closing the bolt on the chambered round does tighten the bullet into the case slightly, but the bullet doesn't seat very far to begin with.
I'm going to use black powder with a lube pill/cookie. Hopefully I'll fire off a few today.
A little off topic - I have a .54 Gallagher that also uses a bumped up bullet, from .515 to .540. Those bullets are hand loaded (no dies, no press), and ignition is via a musket cap on a nipple. I don't have a .540 mold so I use .535 roundballs.
Thanks for the info.

[Battis]

Annealing...
I annealed the 50-70 cases by dipping the mouths in the molten lead when I was casting some bullets. I read that you get the lead temp about 600 degrees, hold the casing by the rim and when you feel warmth on your fingers, it's done. It sounded crazy but it worked. But not so well on the .348 Winchester/.41 Swiss. The lead clung to the brass and would not break off. I ruined a few cases.
So, is propane torch annealing the way to go? Do you anneal before firing the first time, or after a few times?

[Nobade]

I need to get around to annealing my cases, they've been fired maybe 10 times now. I don't think you can do it too many times, lots of BPCR guys do it every time. Can't hurt as long as you don't overcook them.

That's cool about the Gallagher - I have been wanting a capping breechloader for a long time. Either one of those, a Smith, or a Maynard. The right deal hasn't come along yet though. I still think building a little one on a Stevens Favorite would be neat, but that hasn't happened yet either. New breechblock that takes a nipple, new barrel chambered for 22 mag, fired cases are all over the ground at the rifle range. Can reload it with a normal 22 cal. boolit and black powder after drilling a hole in the bottom. Some day I'll see if it really works like I think it will.

-Nobade

[Battis]

The Gallagher is a repro made by Erma (West Germany). I read that the barrels were made from machinegun barrels. They have a fast 1-18" twist.
Brass is about $2.50 each but they'll last forever (no sizing, forming, etc). You can shoot them as muzzleloaders.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF4324_zps94e1c13f.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/DSCF4325_zps877b5353.jpg

[Chicken Thief]

I need to get around to annealing my cases, they've been fired maybe 10 times now. I don't think you can do it too many times, lots of BPCR guys do it every time. Can't hurt as long as you don't overcook them.

That's cool about the Gallagher - I have been wanting a capping breechloader for a long time. Either one of those, a Smith, or a Maynard. The right deal hasn't come along yet though. I still think building a little one on a Stevens Favorite would be neat, but that hasn't happened yet either. New breechblock that takes a nipple, new barrel chambered for 22 mag, fired cases are all over the ground at the rifle range. Can reload it with a normal 22 cal. boolit and black powder after drilling a hole in the bottom. Some day I'll see if it really works like I think it will.

-Nobade

Them i'm an oddball!
I have never annealed BP cases, but then again i dont size or crimp.
Just seat boolit in case with thumb and index-finger.

[Battis]

I like that. If I ever shoot this gun, that's probably what I'll do.

[Battis]

Almost...
I made up 5 rounds, each loaded with approx. 45 gr of FFG. I flared the case mouth with the .44 mag expander die, managed to seat the bullet with the useless seater. After the bullet was seated, I removed the seater, then ran the case up to get a crimp, or what I thought was a crimp. Drove to the range, walked down the closed road, got set up, took one of the rounds, chambered it...almost. I messed up when I flared the case mouth on each round - the flare made the case too wide to chamber, and the crimp did not remove it.
So...
Maybe I'll try to seat the bullet without flaring the mouth. Any suggestions? I need a better seater.
Can you fire form the case with black powder?

[TheCounty]

I'm guessing you are using the Lee flat nose mold. Looking at my seater, it appears to be made more for a round nose type bullet. If your seater is really loose, could a wrap or two of tape (masking or electrical) be used to temporarily tighten it up. This also may hold it true enough to handle the flat nose type bullet. Can't see any issue fireforming with BP. Also, crimping may not be necessary if you are not using the mag. Otherwise, try to adjust so that the crimp forms just lightly into a lube groove, thus not bulging outward. If you run up against a wall, I could mail you a few of my slugs to try.
Cheers
TheCounty

[Battis]

Yep, it's the flat nose .430310. I think that if I just fire form the case, and load it like Chicken Thief does, and forget the magazine for now, it should be fine. It looks like the crimp was not in a groove. At least the gun finally got to the range, even if it didn't shoot. Thanks for the info and offer.

[Battis]

I replaced the Lee Swiss .41 seater with a 3/8" and/or 10mm socket bit, and they fit perfectly, and actually work better than the seater that came with the die. With a little adjusting I might be on to something. What do ya think?
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/b090e493-5556-40c8-9e53-34471dc8e09f_zps003bf466.jpg

[Chicken Thief]

Make a cartridge that has the finished form/size. Heat the socket bit slightly fill it with hotglue and screw it in until it touches the case/boolit in the seater die. Let it sit and remove excess glue. You now have a custom seater stem. Oh btw lightly oil the boolit for easy dissasembling ;)

[Battis]

I was thinking of making the seater and stem one piece, instead of the "floater" it is now. I could drill out the inside of the socket and make it round to fit the tip of the bullet better, or make it larger than the tip and fill it with epoxy to form fit it to the bullet like you described.
Or...I could go to my gun store and see if they had a used .44 mag seater.

I was just playing around with the seater. I tightened the stem all the way down onto the 10mm socket, so it didn't move. I adjusted the depth of the seating so that .54" of the bullet protruded from the case. The cases are 1.62", giving the cartridge an overall length of 2.16". At that length, they cycled through the magazine easily, which doesn't make sense.
But it works.

[TheCounty]

Just a smidge short, but better than long & may suit your rifle perfect. Tippin' a wiskey to your Mcgyver move on the seater. Ok...maybe 2 whiskey. Hope she shoots like a dream. Keep us posted.
Cheers
The County

[Battis]

Headspace question...
If I load a dummy round (bullet, primer, no power), and it chambers, and the primer fires, am I "good to go" as far as headspace?

[Battis]

It works.
In this rifle, if the case length is kept around 1.60", the bullet protrudes .54", and the neck is taken down to .45" or less, it works (single shot). Well, 5 rounds did anyways. 45 grs of FFG and it kicked like an angry .22. Gonged the gong at 100 yds like Chuck Barris. Great gun.
For what it's worth, this is the converted firing pin made from a broken RF pin. I wasn't sure how the single leg would work but it's fine. The decapping pin is held in place by non-permanent LockTite.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m217/pohill/c1234adf-6b01-4e45-8254-1494a0d83f84_zps2051176d.jpg

[sail32]

Hi Battis,

I had the same bulging of the case mouth using a Lee die on .44-40 cases.
I used a Factory Crimp Die and that eliminated the problem.
In the Swiss Rifle Forum one person was using a Lee Factory Crimp die for his 10.4x38mm cartridges.
The solution was a piece of pipe to hold the cartridge upside down and inserting the cartridges into the crimp die.
The pipe length was adjusted so the crimp was in the correct place.
A neat solution as Lee dies not make a Factory Crimp die for the Swiss cartridge.

[Battis]

After I expand the mouth with the 44 mag die, I seat the bullet, then use the Lee .41 Swiss resizing die (with the deprimer pin removed) to resize just the neck where the bulge is, and it works fine. I don't use the magazine so I don't crimp.