38/357 and herco

[hatcreek]

I plan on casting 158gr swc bullets and loading them in 38 and 357, all I have for powder is herco, can this be safely achieved? if yes how many grains in each, any help would be great, thanks in advanced. HC

[fecmech]

Alliant data shows for a 158 gr lead SWC a max of 4.5 grs in the .38 spl and in the .357 a max of 7.9 grs of Herco.

[hatcreek]

Thanks fecmech. HC

[James6406]

I have loaded many 357 using 6.2gr Herco, standard small pistol primer, and 158gr SWC. This was the suggested load that came with my Lee dies and from the shop I purchased from. Have also tried increasing the load to see if accuracy was improved. To my judgement all it did was increase recoil and use up more powder with no measurable improvement in accuracy shooting from a rest. Therefore I have stayed with the 6.2gr.

[hatcreek]

Anyone use blue dot, 800x or sr 7625 with 158gr SWC cast? .38/.357

[williamwaco]

Herco is an excellent powder for either the .38 or the .357.
I have been using it for 40 years.

Reloading data is not as common as the faster powders but it is easy to find.

[hatcreek]

I agree I love Herco, use for all types of loading, including plinking round for my 30 30. HC

[Kraschenbirn]

While I prefer 4227 for my 'full-bore' .357s, I've found Herco works just dandy in every revolver round that I load (.38/357, .44 Spl/.44 Mag, and .45 LC).

Bill

[tazman]

Anyone use blue dot, 800x or sr 7625 with 158gr SWC cast? .38/.357

I have an Alliant manual from 2001 that lists Blue dot load for 357 mag for the 158 swc as 10.3 grains.
They are claiming 1490 fps from a 5.6 inch barrel. Sounds really hot to me. I would start much lower.

Here is a link to the manual.

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Alliant/Alliant01.pdf


Here is a load for 800x from an older IMR manual. 8.9 grains max at 1215 fps
sr7625 6.5 grains max at 1020 fps

[hatcreek]

Thanks Tazman, I had that load for the blue dot, just could'nt locate it, HC

[375supermag]

Anyone use blue dot, 800x or sr 7625 with 158gr SWC cast? .38/.357
Hi...

My all-around general purpose .357Mag handload is a commercial cast 158 gr LSWC over 9.8gr of Blue Dot. Little Dandy rotor #15, IIRC.

The manual says it is c.1200 fps...I don't have a chronograph, so I can't swear to it.

What I can swear to is that it is accurate in half a dozen of my personal .357Mag revolvers (S&W, Ruger and Colts) and in a friend's Ruger GP100.

It is more powerful than factory .38Spl loads, yet a bit below full-power .357Mag factory loads (or my heavier loadings using Hornady HP/XTPs in 125, 158 and 180 gr iterations over W296/H110).
Enough power to get your attention, yet controllable enough to allow shooting a couple/three hundred a day during an all-day range trip.

My son and I have fired thousands yearly for at least a decade.

[FullTang]

If you get a pdf of one of the old Alliant manuals, you'll find lots of Herco loads for .357, .38 spl, and .38 +P. They don't include these anymore, but they did in 2004 and 2005. I've loaded quite a few, and really like them. I also load a .38 +P+ load I found on Castpics; 6.2 grains of Herco in a .38 spl case, with a 158 gn LSWC clocks in around 1060 fps from my 4.625" Vaquero (.357 only!)

[dg31872]

I like Herco. It is an old powder and somewhat unknown. I think that is the reason it is somewhat easier to find.
I contacted Alliant Tech service and asked for load data. They recommended 6.5 grains to 7.0 in 357 with standard pistol primers with RCBS 158 SWC gc.
I use the 7.0 grain load and would not go higher because this load has a sticky extraction from my 686.
Herco is versatile when you get to know how to use it.

[FullTang]

I like Herco. It is an old powder and somewhat unknown. I think that is the reason it is somewhat easier to find.

Exactly! I got an 8 lb keg of it recently (with shotshell reloading in mind), and I've been loving it for .357 revolver and lever gun.

[Rodfac]

Data for Herco is increasingly hard to find however my old Lyman and Speer manuals do list some useful loads with it. I've found it good in the .357 for mid level velocity loads for Lyman's 358156 GC. I cast these from a 1:3 ratio of Pb to WW and size them at 0.360". That size works well through my Smiths and two Ruger revolvers as well as my Marlin 1894 CS. In the latter, I get <1" gps at 35 to 40 yds using a 2.5x Scope. In the Smiths, from the 15 yd line, in a modified Weaver Stance, 1" gps are not difficult in a 3" M60 nor in its 5" stable mate. From the 3"er, 7.0 gr of Herco in Starline Brass, using Win Sm Pistol caps and a moderate crimp chronos right at 950 fps. I've no chrono data for the carbine however but will estimate that it's a 1250 to 1300 fps load. As always, these are my loads and I find them safe in my guns. You should consult a GOOD manual, consider all the pressure implications and proceed with caution. Best Regards, Rod

[ddixie884]

Speer #8 and #11 and the Lyman #45 list it in .357 and some data for .38spl.....

[Sailormilan2]

For the brave at heart. I have my old, original(or most of it) Lyman Reloading Manual #45 from back in 1970. It shows a load of 11.6 gr of Herco with Lyman's 158 gr GC semi wadcutter bullet(#358156). This is listed as a "Factory Duplication" load at 1388 fps out of a S&W Model 27 5" bbl.:?

[Jack Stanley]

WOW !!!! now that one will open yer eyes !!

Jack

[Larry Gibson]

I had a bit of Herco and used a lot up in the 357 Magnum a few years back. I pressure tested the load back in 2011. I was using a cast 358477 over 7.5 gr Herco in R-P cases with WSP primers. Was running 1050 fps out of my 6" Ruger Security Six. Measured PSI (Oehler m43 PBL w/Contender test barrel ran 23,000.

[Tim357]

I had a bit of Herco and used a lot up in the 357 Magnum a few years back. I pressure tested the load back in 2011. I was using a cast 358477 over 7.5 gr Herco in R-P cases with WSP primers. Was running 1050 fps out of my 6" Ruger Security Six. Measured PSI (Oehler m43 PBL w/Contender test barrel ran 23,000.

Mr. Gibson that load sounds a lot like my favorite .357 loads, velocity wise. Old .38/44 ballistics still getting the job done 80 years later!

[ddixie884]

Larry, if you get a chance I'd sure like to have some pressure data on Herco in the .38spl under a 155 to 162 or 3gr swc at approx 5.7, 6 or 6.3gr. I wish I had a pressure set up but I probably couldn't get it right.......

[Larry Gibson]

Can do

[Kosh75287]

WOW !!!! now that one will open yer eyes !! Jack

I'LL agree with THAT, and THAT POOR Model 27! I can't help thinking it was prolly a bit LOOSER, after working up THAT load! I've gone up to 9.0/Herco/158 gr. LSWC/RNFP in my Ruger Police Service Six, but backed it off 0.1 gr., because accuracy was much better (or my FLINCH was far less pronounced, I'm not sure which). I never got to chrono that load, but it had to be leaving the muzzle over 1300 f/s. I know that every LIVING thing I shot with it fell down & quit moving, VERY suddenly. It clanged metal plates loudly, too, even at 100 yards.

I try to treat Herco as a slightly slower-burning, slightly less versatile Alliant Unique. It'll burn dirty with lighter loads, but cleans up nicely as pressure rises. Like Unique, it responds well to max or near-max charges, bullets weighing over 150 gr., and heavier-than-usual crimps on case mouths.
A life-long shooting buddy has used 6.0/Herco/158 gr. (various) in .38 Spl. brass (WELL over recommended), in his 6" S&W Model 19, since he bought it in 1979. The revolver has been to the gunsmith for some trigger work and one other modification, but nobody has remarked that it showed any signs of loosening nor excessive stress. It's the handgun & load he shoots most, by far, and can STILL give me a run for my money when I shoot against him (in competition) with my 1911A1.

[dale2242]

I`m glad to see this thread.
i was just gifted some Herco...dale

[ddixie884]

I've been loading some 6gr x 158gr .38spl. They are strong but not brutal in my LCRX 2" and feel good in My 15-3 S&W. They are a little gooey with lubed bullets and I ordered a Redding PCD so I can put a little more firm crimp on them. I'm not sure there is quite enough pressure to get a good burn. I loaded 9gr 158swc in some .357 cases to try in a day or two. I bought 3 pounds of Herco from Grafs so I'm interested in all Herco info experiences and thoughts.