Lymans #44 shows 6.9 grains Unique in .38 Special !?!?

[Low Budget Shooter]

Friends,

I refer often to the 1967 Lymans #44 in my reloading. Something there puzzles me, though. In loads for .38 Special, using Unique powder, as you go from heavy bullets to light, there is a sudden jump in the amount of Unique listed as max. For 150 grain bullets, the max is 5.5 grains, which is what you would expect. Then for 141 grain it is 6.8 grains; then for 121 grains it is 6.9 grains. That's alot of Unique for .38 Special. And that 6.8 grain charge is under the 358495 wadcutter! The velocity they list is 1295 fps. I don't doubt that 6.8 grains Unique under that wadcutter would produce 1295 in a 6" barrel, but wouldn't the pressure be through the roof? Why the sudden jump from 5.5 grains to 6.8 grains, and is it safe like that?

Thanks, LBS

[Bent Ramrod]

I have also found the No. 44 Lyman Handbook to be sown with some rather hot loads for a number of calibers. Maybe they got a bad lot of copper crushers in when they revised the 43rd Handbook and brought it up to date. In any case, it shows that people need to crosscheck data from multiple sources, even when they are "official" ones.

[opos]

I use the Lyman book, the Speer Book and the little "one caliber" books that show load data from bullet and from powder manufacturers...I will also refer to the "legit" web site data from manufacturers and known/proven lists. I find load data all over the place from one to another but plenty of "overlap" from low to high load data to find a comfortable place to begin each time. I'm a creature of habit and when I find a load that works I seldom change much except to cut back just a tad when changing anything in the components and just making sure things are still fine. I've seen some really scary things posted on the web by armchair experts...wow! Might want to contact Alliant...I"ve contacted them with similar questions from time to time and gotten quick and specific replies...good folks.

[LtFrankDrebbin]

I have heard some powders were'nt as hot back then, even though they're sold by the same name.
There are a few charges in my old loading data that I'd would'nt be game to try.
I do also cross referance data, missprints have been known!

[Rocky Raab]

Have you ever heard the term "typo?"

Chit happens - even in reloading manuals. That's why we never depend on just one.

[smkummer]

This data was before the SAMMI specs of about 1971 or 72. The max loads were maybe intended for a Smith 38-44, Colt New Service or Single action. One really needed to start low ( or at least in the middle of starting loads and max.)in those days and determine the type of gun it was going to be shot in.

[Low Budget Shooter]

Thank you, gentlemen, for the information.

[Larry Gibson]

For 150 grain bullets, the max is 5.5 grains, which is what you would expect. Then for 141 grain it is 6.8 grains; then for 121 grains it is 6.9 grains.

No the psi will not be "through the roof". It is a light weight bullet with a much shorter bearing surface and seated to the OAL mentioned gives a lot more case capacity that the 150 SWC or 141 WCs. Also out of a revolver the cylinder throats make for a lot of "free-bore" for that short bullet. It is an "optical allusion".....it only "appears" to be a lot for the 38 SPL........

Anyone got any 121 gr WCs and I'll measure the psi ?

Larry Gibson

[fecmech]

Larry--the 121 gr was for the 9mm tc or RN. Also the 6.9 unique load was the "Accuracy" load in the 121 and the 6.8/141 load! I hate to admit it but I loaded and shot the 6.8/141 load ( in a Ruger Blackhawk) back in the 70's, it was not accurate at all. At the time I had the need for speed and always went for the highest velocity loads. I probably shot some in my J frame 36, but back then I was fearless( I think I have one of God's top Guardian Angels)!

PS. Lyman downgraded the 121 load by 1.1 grs in the 3rd Edition Cast Handbook.

[Low Budget Shooter]

Thank you all for the info. LBS

[cwheel]

I used to load these on a regular basis for my S&W model 14 with a 8 3/8" barrel. Good load, not to hot. The 121 cast came from what I think was intended to be a 9mm mold, but was sized to .358. I didn't have a chrony back in that time, don't know the data. Would not recommend for a small frame pistol or one that is not in top condition. Sure did work well in my small frame Martini very well.
Chris

[mikeym1a]

this thread made me curious. My first manual was the Speer #8. It's about the same vintage as the one listed in the OP. The 148BB pb wadcutter doesn't even mention unique. It does mention reddot @ 4.2grs max, for 986fps out of a 6" tube. For the 158gr pb SWC or RN, it lists 4.7 grs of reddot as max @1037fps. They did list Unique for this boolit, 6.0grs max/1085. With this boolit it also lists Herco 6.5grs max@1075. for the Speer 146gr pb swc hp, they list unique-6.0grs max@1041, and herco-7.0grs max@1120. I have never loaded .38 Special, other than the J-frame that my ex kept, and never shot it with any frequency. Really nice gun, though. Don't even remember what I loaded for it. The differences in the loads listed is interesting. I have the remains of my first bottle of unique. I should load some cartridges for my .32 with it, and some with my new bottle (less than a year old), and check the differences. Same for my .45. And interesting test. :idea: