newbie to 223 and cast bullets

[gofastman]

I was wondering if anyone can help me out with 223 loads using my new NOE 70gr RN mold (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=353)

I have a fair amount of experience with pistol/cast reloading, but I have only loaded about one hundred 223 rounds (with Noslers)

Im using these in an AR with a 1:7 barrel, I have some aluminum GC's on the way from ebay, ill be using CCI 450's

the only rifle powder I have on hand is IMR 4895, will that work ok?

What is the most "lead friendly" 223 powder for future reference?

[Larry Gibson]

Yes the IMR 4895 will "work". Suggest you start at 14 gr and use a 1/2 gr dacron filler. Work up in 1/2 gr increments until functioning (if it isn't at 14 gr) is 100%. That will probably be the best accuracy with that bullet in that twist with that powder. You can continue to work up until accuracy is no longer useable to you though. A 25 gr load would be my "max".

In the future when other powders become more available again try some AA4350, RL19, H4831SC or RL22 (my preference) with that bullet. With these powders use the dacron filler when loading density is 80% or less.

Larry Gibson

[HDS]

What about faster powders like Reloder 7, or Vihtavuori N120 or N110 (gonna try this soon). I figure with powders of that speed you don't need dacron fillers?

I found some unique load data for a 55gr lyman bullet too, wonder if that would work in an AR.

[runfiverun]

you need gas volume and pressure to operate the bolt.
4 grs of unique ain't gonna provide that.

[HDS]

The loads where a little stouter than that, 5.5 to 8.5 grains. But I don't have access to unique anyway so it's no real interest to me beyond the theoretical.

Other powders like the slowest magnum pistol powders (VVN110, H110, Vectan SP3) and the fastest rifle powders like Reloder-7, VV-N120, Norma R200 are the ones that interest me the most. From quickloads data, N110 and N120 show the most promise, 75-85% filling ratio for N120, 65% for N110.

edit: Lapua loading data shows a 55gr bullet under 18.7 grains of N210, resulting in a case filling capacity of 83%. I thus believe if I develop a starting load for my 62gr cast bullets that apes the same filling ratio, I should be safe. I can in fact just swap out the bullet straight for a velocity of 2460fps. I can only hope this will work accuracy wise.

edit2: VV-N130 might also be a candidate, lapuas starting loads for it using a 60gr bullet is 90%, working out a similar load with my own bullet should have it going along at 2550fps, this might be too fast but I have a very hard linotype alloy. I should see if someone could sell me some sampler packs...

I think load development for either of this will be easier with the future 75gr bullet mold.

One of my main goals is to avoid using fillers, when I am done with finding a load I want to load progressively.

[gofastman]

Yes the IMR 4895 will "work". Suggest you start at 14 gr and use a 1/2 gr dacron filler. Work up in 1/2 gr increments until functioning (if it isn't at 14 gr) is 100%. That will probably be the best accuracy with that bullet in that twist with that powder. You can continue to work up until accuracy is no longer useable to you though. A 25 gr load would be my "max".

Thanks!
is this data from a recipe or experience?

[Larry Gibson]

Thanks!
is this data from a recipe or experience?

Experience, based on 40+ years with cast in the .223 in 7, 8, 9, 10, 12 and 14" twist barrels. Use has been in SSs, bolt actions, several Mini14s with 7 and 10" twists, numerous ARs and M16A1/M16A2/M4s with 7, 8,9, 12 and 14" twists and several bolt guns with 9, 12 and 14" twist. Cast bullets have ranged from 35 to 75 gr.

Larry Gibson

[JedYonkers]

I too was in a bind for cast 223 powder. I settled on 19 grains of IMR 4895 with a 61 Grain NOE bullet. Cycles 100% I will tweek the load when the weather gets better and try to see where the accuracy drops off.

[gofastman]

Yes the IMR 4895 will "work". Suggest you start at 14 gr and use a 1/2 gr dacron filler. Work up in 1/2 gr increments until functioning (if it isn't at 14 gr) is 100%. That will probably be the best accuracy with that bullet in that twist with that powder. You can continue to work up until accuracy is no longer useable to you though. A 25 gr load would be my "max".


so I gather here that accuracy and leading will become a problem long before I reach the pressure limit of the .223

also, isn't Reloader 22 very slow burning? isnt that kind of like using AA#9 in a .380? (maybe not that extreme, but to illustrate a point)

[gofastman]

I too was in a bind for cast 223 powder. I settled on 19 grains of IMR 4895 with a 61 Grain NOE bullet. Cycles 100% I will tweek the load when the weather gets better and try to see where the accuracy drops off.
It looks like I too need about 19grs to reliably cycle the action in my gun

[Gunnut 45/454]

Larry
My load for full function is 18.7 gr IMR4895 for my 62 gr Lyman so the OP should start at 18 gr and work up. Dependant on your alloy OP 2000 fps will probably be your max. I found with the 1:7" twist thats about it. Accuracy for my load after 2000 fps went south badly.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry
My load for full function is 18.7 gr IMR4895 for my 62 gr Lyman so the OP should start at 18 gr and work up. Dependant on your alloy OP 2000 fps will probably be your max. I found with the 1:7" twist thats about it. Accuracy for my load after 2000 fps went south badly.

I concur and have found 18 - 19 gr 4895 (depends on flavor and lot) to reliably function a lot of AR/M16s using 55 - 60+ gr cast bullets. However, that was with the standard length gas tubes and no dacron filler. With a shorter length (carbine) gas tube (OP didn't say which he had) and using a dacron filler the functioning many times takes less powder. That's why the "start load" of 14 gr. It probably won't function the action of even the shorter gas tube AR but I find best accuracy with cast in ARs, especially the 7" twist ones, to be just where reliable functioning occurs. Better to start low w/o functioning and hit that point than to start above it and get frustrated with southward bound accuracy........just a suggestion is all.

Larry Gibson

[garym1a2]

You had posted before about 4350 and cast boolit loads, I forgot to write it down. What do you think is a good cast boolit load, Milhec 62gr natio mold. 1/8 twist 16 inch, 5r M&P. ImR4350. Also you like H4895 for everything, is IMR4895 just as good?


Yes the IMR 4895 will "work". Suggest you start at 14 gr and use a 1/2 gr dacron filler. Work up in 1/2 gr increments until functioning (if it isn't at 14 gr) is 100%. That will probably be the best accuracy with that bullet in that twist with that powder. You can continue to work up until accuracy is no longer useable to you though. A 25 gr load would be my "max".

In the future when other powders become more available again try some AA4350, RL19, H4831SC or RL22 (my preference) with that bullet. With these powders use the dacron filler when loading density is 80% or less.

Larry Gibson