30-30/moose hunting

[reloader28]

My uncle is expecting a cow moose tag this year and is going to use his 30-30 and some cast boolits.
I have the NOE 165gr (170gr) with the big meplat.
I'm going with a solid not HP, but was thinking of using air cooled 50/50/2% alloy. I think it would work great with some speed, but not positive.

After talking with my uncle, he thought maybe just plain WW would work. I think the penetration would be fine, but would like a little more expansion.

I am planing on doing some testing with air cooled 50/50/2%. I can also water drop of course.

What do you guys think? Would the softer alloy expand too much or be fine? Or would I be better off with a harder alloy that held its shape and not expanded at all?
It seems to me that it would have to expand one heck of a lot to not make an exit hole on a moose 150yds or less.

If it was a .44 or like it, I wouldnt even care if it expanded, but a 30cal?

[338RemUltraMag]

If set on using a 30-30 for moose I would suggest a 75-25, meaning 75% WW 25% Pure. And make sure he shoots till the magazine or tube is empty, them critters can soak up some bullets.

[Lead Fred]

I would have suggested something a tad bigger.
I use Lyman Number 2 out of a Ranch Dog mold, good and hard, never tried anything bigger than a deer
Or my 45/70 would never leave the safe.

[colt1960]

I beleave the noe 165gr is a copy of the ranch dog bullet with grease grooves. Ive got a 45-70 that I think would be a better choice of calibers but if a 30-30 is what your going to use I guess it will do the job if your uncle does his. good luck! Rick.

[Screwbolts]

I believe The Boolit you have chosen will work fine for your uncle. IMSWLTHO, (in my some what less than humble opinion) The Big meplat doesn't need much or any mushrooming to be very effective. I cast them of WWs and water drop them, the have traveled straight threw deer for me. I once shot a beef in the fore head with my 303 loaded with 17 gr, of IMR 4759 and a ACWW boolit from a Ideal 308284. Yes a heavier boolit, but the butcher found my boolit intact but bent laying up against the blade of the should plate. That was over 40" of penetration, Forehead, back of scull threw three verdabrai , then traveling length of neck shoulder meat coming to rest against the shoulder blade.

I think his 30-30 with chosen boolit will work fine, aim small hit small.

ken

[dg31872]

I would suggest a larger caliber. If he uses the 30-30, be in close to the animal and bullet placement would be important. I'm sure a number of moose have fallen to the 30-30, but it would not be my first choice.

[L Ross]

With all due respect to member ultramag. I went on a moose hunt with three other hunters all magnum armed. I used a 7x57 and was chastised for my "girlie" gun. My bull dropped literally in its foot prints with one quartering shot through the chest. The one other bull took 2 300 Win mags (with good shooting) and the cow took a combination of 8 total rounds from a 300 Win mag and a 338 Win mag.
Next on a buffalo hunt. A 75 year old woman from Northern MN who regularly kills her deer with her 30-30 shot her 1000 lb cow with one shot using the same 30-30. Emptying the magazine was done.....to extract the unfired rounds.
Reloader28, if your uncle has a good understanding of animal anatomy, can remain calm, and carefully place a killing shot with his 30-30 I'd say go for it. I'd probably use as heavy a flat nose bullet as my rifle would shoot into a 4" or smaller group at 100 yds. If he lacks that knowledge and skill no rifle caliber will make up for it.
Duke

[BruceB]

One of our long-time members, Shuz, wrote a few years ago about a cast-bullet moose hunt with a .30-06 (I think).

The moose died, but it took a considerable length of time and several bullets.

It's all well and good to shoot cast bullets, but in most regards they are honestly INFERIOR to good jacketed bullets for clean kills on game. Going to greater effort, such as making a soft-point cast bullet, can do a lot to close the efficiency gap, but unless this is done we are risking the needless wounding and/or suffering of a game animal.

Hunting big animals with a .30-caliber cast bullet, unless it is absolutely essential from a survival standpoint, is more of a stunt than I like to see. The .30-30 cleanly kills plenty of moose every year; I've seen it done...... with softpoint jacketed ammo. However, my PERSONAL choices for cast-bullet moose would start with a 250-grain .338 softpoint, and actually I would prefer something over .40 caliber and 400-plus grains. I have killed my share of moose and seen many others killed, and I'm not talking from "book knowledge".

The priority , as for all hunting, should be placed on a CLEAN KILL. Selecting ammunition that one KNOWS is inferior is at best poor judgement.

I'm not saying this to offend anyone, but I have some experience with moose and they deserve our best efforts, not marginal ammunition.

[pls1911]

AMEN to Duke's admonitions. I am a fan and a big believer in the 30-30 but would choose a 45-70 first.
Your bullet choice is among the best, though I'd prefer the RCBS 180 just because of the extra weight.... it will cast 185-195 with most alloys.
My alloy is about 50/50 ww/pure, heat treated at 450 for one hour and ice water quenched, gas checked and lubed.
This stretches my alloy a long ways, and provides a bullet with a BHN of 22-24. These shoot HARD like linotype but without the brittle frangibility. This alloy , so processed, will deform with bone hits, but holds together very well and penetrates into the next county....which is what you need on big critters, even with perfect shot placement. The same applies to plain WW, but the bullet is still harder, 24-28 BHN.

[Larry Gibson]

Reloader28

I concur with BruceB, a moose is a pretty large animal. However many have been and still are killed every year with the 30-30. Your select of bullet is appropriate but I suggest the alloy be changed slightly; add the 2% tin to the COWWs and then add 50% lead to that. That puts the tin in better proportion to the antimony for an over all better alloy. It's one I use quite often with my 311041 HP at 177 gr fully dressed. I use the HP on smaller game such as deer and pigs and it gives excellent expansion, weight retension and penetration to 200 yards when pushed out at 2000 - 2200 fps. For the moose I would go with that alloy sans the HP.

If you can find some LeveRevolution powder and you fully dressed bullet runs 170 gr then try 32 - 33 gr. Psi will be below most factory loads, accuracy should be very good and velocity should be 2100fps with a 20" barrel and more if the barrel is longer. I size mine at .311, firmly seat a Hornady GC and lube with Javelina (no longer available but a good NRA 50/50 lube or 2500+ does excellent also). I also clean the barrel every 7 -8 shots with that alloy and load to maintain excellent accuracy.

As mentioned be prepared for follow up shots but even with j bullets and bigger cartridges with a perfect heart/lung shot, a moose can be dead on it's feet and not know it for a while. Good luck hunting.

Larry Gibson

[Spokerider]

A 3030 will do everything a 3006 will, out to about 100m.
Shot placement will be everything......avoiding large bone and less than optimum shot angles and low percentage targets.
It comes down to knowing and respecting the limits of the cartridge and factoring in the parameters of ones own hunting aptitude.

[338RemUltraMag]

With all due respect to member ultramag. I went on a moose hunt with three other hunters all magnum armed. I used a 7x57 and was chastised for my "girlie" gun. My bull dropped literally in its foot prints with one quartering shot through the chest. The one other bull took 2 300 Win mags (with good shooting) and the cow took a combination of 8 total rounds from a 300 Win mag and a 338 Win mag.
Next on a buffalo hunt. A 75 year old woman from Northern MN who regularly kills her deer with her 30-30 shot her 1000 lb cow with one shot using the same 30-30. Emptying the magazine was done.....to extract the unfired rounds.
Reloader28, if your uncle has a good understanding of animal anatomy, can remain calm, and carefully place a killing shot with his 30-30 I'd say go for it. I'd probably use as heavy a flat nose bullet as my rifle would shoot into a 4" or smaller group at 100 yds. If he lacks that knowledge and skill no rifle caliber will make up for it.
Duke

No offense taken, but a lot of people shoot deer with the 223 and watch em drop just like your moose did, a fast bullet seems to kill faster than a slow one (whole new discussion) I think it will work, but it is a good possibility it may take more than 1 round. If I were hunting moose with a 30-30 I would fire until the animal fell over or was out of range or the gun was empty. Period.

They can take hella abuse and keep on truckin.

[reloader28]

Thanks for the opinions guys. My knowledge comes from 6 deer and one hog cast boolit kills. Well, alotta p-dogs and rabbits too.
I know a water dropped 50/50/2% boolit will go thru a deer like its butter. Worked great. One 357, one 45 colt, two 30-06. Two with 44mag air cooled 50/50/2. All the boolits were not even close to slowing down, even at 200+yds. One hog with straight air cooled WW and HP (when I first started). It worked and he's got the hog mounted, but I never saw the recovered boolit. He said it looked fine but the nose was gone of course.

Yes the NOE is the Ranch Dog clone and yes my uncle can shoot good.
I might use my 44mag rifle if it were me, but he asked me if 30-30 would work and said he needed some boolits so I said "I think it would work fine". I'm up for a challenge.

I am going to do some testing with these boolits shortly and I'll let you know what we did and how it worked, but I am just getting a feeler of what you guys think. IF he gets his tag. He dont exactly have it yet.
I do appreciate what everyone thinks and want all the opinions I can get, so keep em comin.

BruceB, do you know more specifics about that hunt. Alloy? Boolit? Load?
I know there can be failures in everything. Maybe he made a bad first shot? I'm just curious.

I think I disagree about cast being "inferior" to jacketed though. I've made boolits that expand at least as much as jacketed HP and keep better weight retention and made FN cast that penatrate farther than RN solid jacketed. Granted these were with MY test grounds. Wet phone books, wet sand, milk jugs.
I personally think the big advantage a jacketed bullet has is the longer range due to higher speeds.
I'm not trying to start an argument, thats just my opinion and I greatly appreciate yours.

338RemUltraMag, I hadnt thought of 75/25 alloy. Thats another possability.

It sounds like the concesess is to use a harder alloy than air cooled 50/50/2% and let the meplat do the work in case it hits a bone. I just thought with that caliber maybe it should mushroom some. Thats why I came here.:D
I have used water dropped 50/50/2 on a deer with 30-06 and though it worked fine, I thought a softer boolit would have been way better.

Thanks again guys. I am surprised at getting this many responses so fast and hope more are to come.:coffeecom


WOW, more posts in the time it took me to type that. I'm slow.

Larry, thats an interesting way to do it and I've read your posts stating that before. I'm going to give it a try. And it streches the tin which is expensive for me. I guess its basically 1% instead of 2% huh?

I've always did a pound of WW=2%. Throw in a pound of lead=2%. Am I wrong or does this make a 2% mix in the end?

[Pilgrim]

Shuz has killed at least 2 bulls with the Lyman boolit (280 gr IIRC) out of a .35 Whelen. I was with him when he got his 2nd bull. I haven't talked to Shuz for a year + so he may have collected more of 'em since then. Pilgrim

[seasidehunter]

I hope there will be photos !!!

of boolits and critters..

[Larry Gibson]

I've always did a pound of WW=2%. Throw in a pound of lead=2%. Am I wrong or does this make a 2% mix in the end?

You only need to add the 2% tin to the original COWWs. That most often makes an excellent alloy in and of itself. Then to soften just add 10 - 50 % lead to that alloy. Add the % you want for as soft as you want. The COWWs + 2% tin with 50% lead then added and WQ'd or HT'd makes a very hard yet malleable bullet.

Larry Gibson

[Hyphenated]

You guys have covered most of the bases, so no need to rehash caliber choices. If I was shooting something that big with a 30-30 I would go with the heaviest boolit my rifle shot well. That would mean 180-190gr plus. The 190gr was not an uncommon choice for the old-timers. Check out the older Lyman manuals for published data.

[TXGunNut]

It's all well and good to shoot cast bullets, but in most regards they are honestly INFERIOR to good jacketed bullets for clean kills on game. Going to greater effort, such as making a soft-point cast bullet, can do a lot to close the efficiency gap, but unless this is done we are risking the needless wounding and/or suffering of a game animal.-BruceB

I've killed lots of critters and tracked more wounded critters than I'd care to admit and I'm proud to say that my considerable tracking ability hasn't been utilized much since I started hunting with CB's. I've only killed a handful of critters, all much smaller than a moose, BTW, with a CB but I've been very impressed with the terminal performance.
I have immense respect for your thoughts on this subject, BruceB, just not sure I agree with you. I still keep a j-bullet or two on the shelf but if I didn't have a perfectly good 45-70 or 35 Rem (or 32WS) available I'd certainly consider taking a moose with a CB fired from a 30-30. Second choice would be a 170 gr Cor-Lokt but I'd be afraid it was designed for lighter game.
I'm not going after a moose anytime soon but this thread intrigues me, care to expand more on your experiences?

[reloader28]

Great thoughts guy's. Thanks for the comments.
Larry, thanks for the heads up. I've been adding tin to a pound of WW AND a pound of lead. I'm definately going to give that a try.

[nanuk]

I have a friend up north that has killed more moose than I have killed deer, and his elk count is up there too.

I'd say 75% or more of them were killed with a 30-30, and the rest with a shotgun shooting slugs, and one with an SKS, 7.62x39 125gr SP, complete pass through, broke ribs going in, took out the top of the heart, big damage to the lungs, and out through the brisket on the far side.

after talking with him for years about hunting moose, I'd have NO qualms using an alloy, like Larry Gibson's recommendation, in a 30-30 with a 165+ boolit! None. Load that round up to equal factory speeds and go hunting! Limiting my shots to inside 150yds.

the secret he tells me about moose hunting is this:

Moose are Big Babies.
Shoot one in the forward half, then go and have lunch.
Come back in 1.5-2 hours and you'll find him 50 yds from where you shot him.
if you shot twice, expect him to be 100 yds. Add 50 yds for each shot.
Whatever you do, do NOT chase him!

My buddy's favorite shooting platform was a grader on the highway..... Moose aren't afraid of a Grader. He'd shoot them then continue on his way. Come back a few hours and the moose would be laying either dead, or stiffened up and only needing a finishing shot.

if he was Calling Moose, he never needed to shoot beyond 50 yds, as he could always call them in close.

I've learned a lot about hunting from him.

[pls1911]

HAHAHAHA.... I love learning new hunting techniques... never hunted from a road grader before.
Rattlesnakes from tractors, yes.
Pigs from planes yes,
But moose from a motor grader?? Not yet.

Now all I need to do is find a moose within 1000 miles!!

[DLCTEX]

After seeing a Core-Lokt in a 300 Win. Mag. blow up on the shoulder of a 200" buck I'd prefer to hunt with a cast boolit in the 30-30. IMHO

[rexherring]

It's all my moose guide used in Alberta when I hunted up there. The majority of the Canadians in that area used either .30-30's or .303's. My bull moose came down with one shot from my .30-06 at 150 yds with a factory 220 Win. Silvertip. I agree with the the above post about a good hit, wait, and find them within 50 yds. That's what my guide does.

[dk17hmr]

I don't think it has been said yet but assuming your uncle is here in Wyoming we are talking about Shiras moose, the smallest of the subspecies of moose. That said they are still big, a big cow can still top 1000 pounds. I don't know if I would use a 30-30 on a moose here in Wyoming but if I did I would shoot the heaviest bullet I could as fast as I could and get close. I have been able to get inside the 20 yard mark on a medium sized cow moose and inside 30 yards of a young bull....I felt pretty small.

If I was set one using a 30 caliber and cast on moose I would run the 247 NOE in a 30-06 with a 50/50 Pure/WW mix at 2200 or more feet per second. If I draw this year I will probably buy a new rifle though :D

[Junior1942]

Some of these guys are making it too complicated. Load your uncle some plain ol' ACWW alloy NOE 165gr 30-30 bullets to 1900 fps or so, and let that big meplat do its job. Which it will.

[finstr]

I've killed 9 bull moose to date, 8 with a 7mm Rem Mag and 1 with the 338WM. I go over gunned as do the guys in my camp but a 30-30 will definitely do the job, as others have said keeping shots within the limits of the cartridge. I also own a 30-30 and I'm aware of it's potential, but I choose a round with more horsepower.
Realistically, moose aren't really all that tough if you poke 'em thru the slats and stay out of the shoulder meat. I've never had a moose drop instantly from a lung shot but I also don't destroy much meat that way either.

[reloader28]

Thanks guys.
My uncle lives over in Greybull and hunts above Shell. I'm 40 miles north of Cody on the state line so its a short 80 mile jont for me to go hunting with him, which I will. I want to witness and report.
Me and the wife went with a friend of mine 2 years ago and he shot a nice bull at 30yds with a bow and yes they ARE big.

Junior, thats kinda what I was thinking about doing, and I have some cast up already. Then I got to second guessing and thought I better check here first.

I sure am thinking about getting a road grader though. Sit in the cab when the wind and snow is blowing. Might be nice.:D

[jethunter]

The 30-30 generally does a better job than most people expect. It penetrates simply because it isn't moving very fast - the same bullet would blow up if it were driven at 30-06 velocity. It's normal to see a jacketed slug from a 30-30 penetrate as good or better as a similar type/weight bullet from a 30-06.

Moose are easy to kill but they take a while to fall down, mostly because an animal that big takes a while to bleed out. I'm going to attempt to shoot a moose this year with a 32-40 winchester using 170 gr gc wfn boolits at 1600 fps.

[white eagle]

If I draw this year I will probably buy a new rifle though :D

now your talking

[reloader28]

32-40. Thats a cool round.

[Pilgrim]

Read in one the gun rags some years ago about an "first nation" individual who shot a moose with his .30-30, recovered the boolit, reloaded it and shot another moose with the same boolit the next yr. No info on alloy but IIRC it was COWW. Nuff said...I guess. Pilgrim

[L Ross]

Read in one the gun rags some years ago about an "first nation" individual who shot a moose with his .30-30, recovered the boolit, reloaded it and shot another moose with the same boolit the next yr. No info on alloy but IIRC it was COWW. Nuff said...I guess. Pilgrim
Hey Pilgrim, I think I read that same story. I recalled it as a 32 Win Spl, but maybe it was a 30-30, no matter. Decapped with a nail in a dowel or some such primitive reloading technique. I really enjoy those old stories, reminds me of the practical "dope" Frank Marshall used to publish in "Speaking Frankly" often reprinted in the CBA's Fouling Shot.
As a kid I remember a story about a guy using an old surplus military rifle with a penny used to make a front sight shooting surplus fmj ammo to stun wild horses so he could capture them for a grub stake. I imagine you could go to prison today for just reading such a tale.
Funny how our attitudes are formed. By law we had to shoot deer with shotguns slugs when I was young. I dreamed of using a rifle, a real rifle, a .270 like my idol Jack O'Connor. I thought a 30-30 was a very marginal deer caliber. Now I am convinced that a "hunter" can sucessfully take just about anything we hunt in North America with a 30-30 and a cast bullet. Nope, we better not try an elk 500 yards away across a park, or plink an aggressive bear in a salmon river, but if we use our heads and take only a shot we know for certain we can make, it should do the job.

Duke

[nanuk]

here is an interesting video I saw on another site


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1E4abzmvio0#!

it is a good watch.

[helice]

It seems that a man has to be old to know what a 30-30 can do.
He must also be too broke to buy gun magazines. Them silly things have talked more men out of their 30-30s than anything else.

[reloader28]

I know darn well the 30-30 is capable of more than most people give it credit for.
I wasnt going to say anything, but I have killed a running deer right at 300yds and one shot with 30-30. My brother was there and saw it. I was younger and at that time didnt know that the 30-30 couldnt do that.

Wow, it that was the boolit they caught at the end, that thing didnt deform at all! I think Lazer Cast is pretty hard though.

[nanuk]

17 jugs of water

170gr LC hardcast

10gr Unique

good ol' 30-30.....

I'd say a moose would have a hole nearly all the way through, no matter the angle.... one of those through the lungs of any animal will kill it...

As my buddy up North says: Shoot em, then go have a sammich and coffee.... come back and find him 50 yds from where he stood when shot!

[BruceB]

.. one of those through the lungs of any animal will kill it...:!

Oh, the moose will die, alright.... but HOW QUICKLY and HOW FAR AWAY?

I do my hunting BEFORE the shot, and I've heard this crapola bout 'shooting and waiting' for decades, INCLUDING during my 35 years of hunting "up North" (Northwest Territories).

I didn't like the idea then, and I don't like the idea now.

Others may disagree, but *I* consider it to be my duty to the animals I hunt, to kill them as quickly and cleanly as I possibly can. If "others" can tolerate this 'shoot and wait' method, I suppose that's up to them.... but I could NOT do it with an easy conscience.

No argument will ever change my mind on this matter. I hunt with adequate cartridges, and shoot until the animal is dead. This has served me (AND THE ANIMALS) very well for over fifty years of hunting, without losing any critters or my self-respect.

[NVScouter]

I'm around Cody if you want some 225s from my alloy. What area I saw three moose a week ago, two at 125y and one at 50. I thought he as a bear at first bright blonde face. I was cutting wood but still had my 45LC loaded for bear.

A big moose sure can make a 6' 230lb man feel small fast!

[rbuck351]

I've shot about a dozen moose with 270Win, 308Win, 338Win and 300H&H none of which has dropped with a heart/lung shot. All that have been hit in the scapula dropped within 10yds. If I were to use a 30/30 and cast on moose I would try for a double shoulder shot. You won't have enough velocity to bloody a bunch of meat. Penetration will be good enough to get to the hide on the far side and maybe exit. It will probably go down where it was hit and allow for a close up finishing shot. The last moose I shot was with the 300H&H, 180gr Speer at about 2950fps and about 80/90yds. Finger size hole in and out through heart and lungs without the slightest reaction from the moose. As I racked another round he walked about 20yds, stopped and gave me another shot. Second shot was within a couple of inches of the first and he reared up on his hind legs and collapsed. I don't like putting a high speed bullet through shoulders but that is surely where I would try with a slow cast bullet. I would also try to get as close as possible with 150yds being max and under 100 much better. Just don't expect a moose to stop quickly if bone isn't hit.

[Ed K]

I only have a little experience - not a lot. However the couple of Newfoundland guides I've been with who have had great success with the 30-30 and 303 do what many can't or won't: they get right up on top of that animal. Apparently there no possibility of a missed/botched shot. Also they empty their guns.

[dkf]

Oh, the moose will die, alright.... but HOW QUICKLY and HOW FAR AWAY?

I do my hunting BEFORE the shot, and I've heard this crapola bout 'shooting and waiting' for decades, INCLUDING during my 35 years of hunting "up North" (Northwest Territories).

I didn't like the idea then, and I don't like the idea now.

Others may disagree, but *I* consider it to be my duty to the animals I hunt, to kill them as quickly and cleanly as I possibly can. If "others" can tolerate this 'shoot and wait' method, I suppose that's up to them.... but I could NOT do it with an easy conscience.

No argument will ever change my mind on this matter. I hunt with adequate cartridges, and shoot until the animal is dead. This has served me (AND THE ANIMALS) very well for over fifty years of hunting, without losing any critters or my self-respect.

Well said.

[dmitch]

Oh, the moose will die, alright.... but HOW QUICKLY and HOW FAR AWAY?

I do my hunting BEFORE the shot, and I've heard this crapola bout 'shooting and waiting' for decades, INCLUDING during my 35 years of hunting "up North" (Northwest Territories).

I didn't like the idea then, and I don't like the idea now.

Others may disagree, but *I* consider it to be my duty to the animals I hunt, to kill them as quickly and cleanly as I possibly can. If "others" can tolerate this 'shoot and wait' method, I suppose that's up to them.... but I could NOT do it with an easy conscience.

No argument will ever change my mind on this matter. I hunt with adequate cartridges, and shoot until the animal is dead. This has served me (AND THE ANIMALS) very well for over fifty years of hunting, without losing any critters or my self-respect.

Amen !! +1

dmitch

[nanuk]

a moose with a destroyed shoulder that runs a few hundred yards, or more with the lead flying around after it?

Or one well placed boolit through the lungs, where he will walk a few paces, lay down and die?

what is more humane?

Only a head shot to the brainbox?? Because that is pretty much what you are saying.

[BruceB]

ITEM: bull moose, 40 FEET, .30-06 w/ Speer 180 Grand Slams...... first round, quartering TO the rifle, broke near shoulder. Moose turned broadside and tried to move away. Second round put him DOWN. Time....about 3 seconds. Distance travelled...maybe ten feet.

ITEM: large cow moose, knee-deep lake water, 200 yards, Nosler 200 partition. Approaching slowly by boat, ready to shoot if moose became alarmed. She started trotting toward shore, and ONE chest-area round killed her in her tracks so quickly that her head never came up above water. Time: instantaneous. Distance traveled...NONE

ITEM: hunting caribou in winter, wife came on a large bull moose at about 200 yards. One 130-grain Nosler .270 Partition killed bull in his tracks with complete penetration. No elapsed time, no travel at all.

NO brain shots, and these are only a few examples. We never lost an animal, and never had one get out of sight, even in wooded country....and the count is upwards of 150 head of big-game (mostly caribou, as we were allowed ten to twenty per year as a family in the NWT).

I stand by my post. If I don't have a near-certainty of a clean kill, I don't shoot....PERIOD.

[9.3X62AL]

What BruceB has said, throughout this thread. I have zero moose experience, and next-to-zero elk time......but I would use more caliber than the 30-30 WCF for any critter the size of a moose or elk. I have one bolter in 9.3 x 62 and 3 rifles in 45-70 for just such occasions, too.

Now, for the coyote-sized coast blacktails and slightly larger Sierra muleys I chase out here in the Western Worker's Paradise (CA--AKA Bulgaria With Date Palms), a 30-30 with either a Sierra flatpoint or a cast softpoint will make venison very well. The real secret to the 30-30's effectiveness since 1895 has been the velocity envelope it operates within matching so well to simple cup-and-core jacketed bullets (or to the cast softpoint). That is not to say that it can't or won't do similar work on elk or moose, but I owe the critter a much smaller margin of error than what the 30-30 offers for such work. Just my view of the matter, and worth exactly what you paid for it. :)

[rbuck351]

I have seen a bunch of moose shot but have never seen one run off with a hole in both scapula no matter what put it there. I seriously doubt anyone else has either. A double lung/heart shot is certain death but it may not be as soon as you would expect and you may not get ANY immediate reaction. A double scapula shot has put them down almost immediately every time I have seen it. No, they do not die immediately, but they are right there for a quick finish shot. They do not run off being chased by a hail of lead. I have only seen one dead before it hit the ground and that one I shot in the spine with a 270Win. One should not take long or marginal shots when using a 30/30 on moose as there is not a lot of room for error. A 30/30 will kill moose quite effectively if used properly. On the other side a 338Win mag doesn't work all that well when used improperly and I have seen that as well. Three shots at under 100yds to knock a moose down and make it stay down. Very poor shooting but then that is the answer, proper placement not power.

[Pilgrim]

BruceB's and Rbuck351 combined have it right IMO. I haven' killed anywhere near the big game of those two gentlemen, but have killed elk with a .270 W, .338 WM, and .358 W, and one moose with my .358 W. Note that BruceB and family used premium bullets ONLY, and Rbuck351 emphasized bullet placement. It takes both on big critter. I stopped using Rem corelokts on anything bigger than deer, and know a shoulder shot with that bullet will completely wipe out a front quarter, usually both of them if a whitetail sized critter. A .30-30 with a cast boolit will kill most any critter just fine if you are close enuf AND a good enuf shot to put the boolit where it's needed. The bigger calibers give you a larger margin of error, but even with the bigger boomers, you HAVE to put the bullet in the vitals or they all will head for parts unknown, especially elk. Moose are reportedly damn near shock proof so you either break them down (like Rbuck351 advises) or put a hole big enuf to let the air in and blood out...quickly ( BruceB recommendation) or it might go a long ways before it lays down. A .300 Weatherby raises hell due to violent buulet expansion, use a cast boolit in a .300 and you just have a faster .30-30. Same sized hole with both of 'em. JMO...Pilgrim

[nanuk]

I stand by my post. If I don't have a near-certainty of a clean kill, I don't shoot....PERIOD.

that statement right there says it all, regardless of caliber or cartridge!

[reloader28]

Well, he didnt draw a darn moose tag.:sad:
Oh well. Thanks for all the opinions anyways guys.

[white eagle]

with all due respect
I have been hunting for 40 + years myself I have learned a few things along the way
one is just because I don't agree with one mans style of hunting don't make it any better or worse than mine
I have also killed my fair share of game and just because I don't see it drop in front of me don't mean it aint dead
case in point I shot a bull elk in Idaho at a whopping 20 yds one shot through the heart and one shot through the lungs as it was fleeing
didn't die in front of me but it was dead just did not know it at the time
my shots were true however I did not see the animal die so am I a bad hunter ?
My point is just because the animal did not drop in its tracks and I did not see it die it was just as dead as anything.
Now these fellers that shoot a moose and leave then are not pushing the animal and the animal is just as dead as the other guys

[MT Chambers]

For the big moose I like to hunt, I'd opt for my 45/70 or 50/90 but the 30/30 and the .303 have killed an awful lot of big moose here in Canada before the mags said it couldn't be done.

[NVScouter]

Is not having another rifle the mainreason for going 30-30? I may be a me to loan you a 45-70 as I'm in Cody.

I just read you didn't draw sorry to hear.

[reloader28]

Is not having another rifle the mainreason for going 30-30? I may be a me to loan you a 45-70 as I'm in Cody.

I just read you didn't draw sorry to hear.

The 311165 NOE is just a wicked looking boolit and thats what he wanted to use.
Thanks anyway. BTW, I'm in Clark.

[truckjohn]

The thing that worries me about using the criteria of a "Dropped in it's tracks" type shot to be a "Good Hunter" - is that for the most part - "Dropped in it's tracks" is as much luck as anything else....

First, let's agree that a spine shot is real dicey and very much not a shot you count on hitting in the field....
Most hunters are going to shoot for the heart/lung shot when given the opportunity.... You don't stun an animal - then have it jump back up and run off or blow all it's teeth out if your shot is off by 1"...

With the heart/lung shot - The big study I read said that if the heart was on a compression stroke - and you hit a major artery... The animal dropped in it's tracks dead.... If the heart was on the relaxation part of the stroke and you hit the same spot - the animal ran off a distance and died..... BUT.. The shot was 100% fatal either way...

I don't think anyone here is a good enough hunter to predict exactly when the animal's heart is compressing vs relaxing... The best hunters I know who have several hundred animals under their belts claim no more than 20-30% of their animals drop in their tracks... The majority run or walk off a short distance and die.... Dead is dead, and a good, solid heart/lung shot = dead animal....

The next thing I have issue with is running right out of the stand and chasing after a well shot animal..... Dead is dead... If you run out and chase it right off - the adrenaline gets pumping and off the animal goes... Running hard on empty... and that's where you see animals run 1/2 mile or a mile and end up totally lost... and you get to listen to Coyotes all day tomorrow...... Stay put and watch them... they might hop a bit as if spooked by a squirrel... but they run off or walk a short distance, stop, look around, circle around, and pile up close by...

I would really worry most about this last part with something Big and potentially Mean like a Moose.... Shoot it - then go running in.. Good idea!... That's asking for a FIGHT you won't win.. or a Chase into a nasty bottomless swampy hellhole .... The smarter thing to do is to shoot it, and stay back... Out of it's sight... Let it die in peace... The meat tastes better this way anyway.... It won't go far...

Thanks

[nanuk]

truckjohn, well put.

I hunt with a single shot, I wait for the good shot, and take my time to make it.

[pls1911]

Nanuk's last 2 posts sum it up, embracing the points welll made here.
..Any gun, any caliber on all critters....enough gun is good, but shot placement is critical.
I'm with him on single shots as well, inasmuch as I was raised that if I needed more than one shot, I shouldn't shoot.
That little lesson has saved me a lot of trailing over the years, from bunnies to bobcats to bigger quarries.

[Shuz]

Shuz has killed at least 2 bulls with the Lyman boolit (280 gr IIRC) out of a .35 Whelen. I was with him when he got his 2nd bull. I haven't talked to Shuz for a year + so he may have collected more of 'em since then. Pilgrim

No more meese, but the .35 Whelen has kilt a spike bull elk and a whitetail since Pilgrim and I were on that hunt in BC. Boolit used was the 358009 cast from 3:1 alloy(ww:lino), heat treated to Bhn 22 and driven to 2150 fps. The whitetail was hit front on behind the neck as it was facing me, head down feeding and the boolit went clean thru the guts and exited out the left hind quarter. Distance was about 80 yds. 35 cal hole all the way until the boolit hit the pelvis. It broke the pelvis, left a few splinters of bone and then exited the hind quarter.
About a month or 2 ago, I spied a 35 cal 280g Old West HP mould that I just hadda get, in order to do some expansion tests. Well, so far I haven't been able to get this boolit to shoot worth sour owl manure, in 2ea .35 Whelens and a .358 Winchester BLR, and have a thread running on "Cast Boolits Favorite Loads".
Right now, I'm at my daughters place visiting and won't be home to resume my testing until early next week.

[quasi]

Question? Where is the best place to shoot a Moose?

Answer; Between two ditches!

Anyone who has had to backpack a Moose out in quarters , for a few Kilometers in the Mountains will laugh and agree wholeheartedly when you tell them this joke.

Here in Alberta , Moose are really starting to thrive on the Prairies. There are seasons in several WMU's . If you can get a draw it can be very easy Moose hunting, and the Moose are very tasty from all the Canola they eat.

[nanuk]

Question? Where is the best place to shoot a Moose?

Answer; Between two ditches!


hehehee...

so true

[square butte]

Best place to hunt moose? Always on the uphill side of the road.

[Ramjet-SS]

Well lets see i have killed Elk with longbow and with 44 magnum. Both are "inferior" compared to the 30-30 but both effectually and humanely killed a very tough large animal. Me thinks the 30-30 is plenty for moose given respect for the distance and shot placement. To argue otherwise is unfounded and closed minded to say the least.

[MT Chambers]

Interesting, I didn't know that moose eat canola, I thought that most animals and birds shun the stuff. We have a lot of it here in Sask. as well as some hefty moose, usually here you can drive right up to your dead moose and load him.

[Nickle]

Well, I would recommend a larger caliber myself. I find the 30-30 to be on the weak side for moose, though adequate for deer. A 45-70 just probably couldn't be beat.

But, that 30-30 will do the job, just remember, bullet placement is EVERYTHING!

I had a friend shoot a 575 bull moose here in Vt a few years ago, and it was DRT (dead right there). 308 with 165 Sierra Game King and 42 grains of 4895. LC 65 brass, too. I loaded those. His step father shot a 525 pounder a week later, didn't die near as well. Sold him a bunch of 7mm Rem Mag ammo with the 7mm version of the same bullet (160 gr, IIRC), Of course, the real difference was bullet placement.

Now, cast adds some, but not like some may think. Just make triple sure the alloy is right, to give you the proper performance. And put the bullet in the right place.

[RoyEllis]

Well lets see i have killed Elk with longbow and with 44 magnum. Both are "inferior" compared to the 30-30 but both effectually and humanely killed a very tough large animal. Me thinks the 30-30 is plenty for moose given respect for the distance and shot placement. To argue otherwise is unfounded and closed minded to say the least.

Isn't it absolutely amazing that the human race survived so long with no large caliber firearms to hunt with? Who woulda thunk a wooly mammoth could die from spear & atlatl dart wounds, long before the bow & arrow even came about?

[GabbyM]

If my 30-30 was all I had I'd use it on Moose in a heart beat. But I've bigger guns.

My RCBS 30-180-FN drops at 200 grains with most semi soft alloys. My win 94 will shoot this at over 2,000 fps using Hodgdon LVR powder. That will do it. I'd need to shoot jacketed bullets in my 30-06 to best that and then velocity would only give me a longer range envelope to work in.

IN keeping with dropping Moose close to a road for haul out. 375 H&H Mag with a Lyman FN boolit at 2100 fps would be my first choice. But the largest gun I own is a 30-06 so I'd make that work. It shoots farther than my 30-30 but within there ranges one does not kill any better than the other. HV up close on the 30-06 can actually be detrimental to penetration as we all know.

[BAGTIC]

If I was hunting moose with a 460 Weatherby " I would fire until the animal fell over or was out of range or the gun was empty. Period."

[NLS1]

Very interesting thread, and some pretty strong opinions.

Never hunted moose, hardly even seen one here. But if I only had a 30-30 with cast to do the job I would not feel under gunned. Proper alloy, heavier boolit, and moderate speed means lots of penetration. Being close enough to assure a very good shot, otherwise I would not take the shot. Actually I might even prefer to use my bow, to not spook the animal so much. Holy smokes, if it was amped up on adrenaline from multiple rifle reports, I bet they could cover some serious ground in not very long!

And the between two ditches joke is funny, I can only imagine how true that is!

Dan

[KCSO]

" I Had to Have a Moose" Olive Fredrickson 1967 Outdoor life... If she could do it with one shot you can too. 50-50 lino and w/w has worked well for me on everything up to small buffalo. In the 30-30 the cast slug can do everything a jacketed slug can do and sometimes even better.

[truckjohn]

I would wager that better than 90% of Centerfire moose up in the North Country were brought down by the venerable 303 Brit... That being the case - a 30-30 shouldn't really have any issue assuming proper shot placement (Which is a given with anything... but you still gotta say it..)

Look at those guys up in AK - that are doing it all day long with 223 AR's... and if a 223 can take a moose... certainly a 30-30 shouldn't have too much issue...

Thanks

[Driver man]

Get close, shoot straight.Eat well.

[10x]

Get close, shoot straight.Eat well.

Killed many moose with a30-30 and a303 using cast boolits and jacketed. Cast your bullets a bit softer and try for an accurate load at 2000 fps. Shot placement counts. Get under 75 yards and put the boolit through one or both scapulas. If you have a soft core jacketed bullet heart lung will work well to. I haven't ever had a moose go more than 2 -3 steps after a shot.