Remington Rand GI says NO

[greenrivers]

Loaded 4.6 & 4.8 grains of Tite Group under a 200 grain SWC. Also loaded 6 grains of Unique under the same boolit for my old war horse. According to my Lyman manual, these loads should be about the same fps. Good thing I used a big backstop for a target area! The Titegroup loads looked like they came out of a shotgun, while the Unique loads nicely clustered in a 2 1/2 to 3 inche group just left of the p.o.a.. Looks like the Titegroup goes back on the shelf! Anyone else had the same results?

[burr7870]

I use unique in 45 acp and many other pistol calibers. I even used quite a bit of the Russian surplus unique when it was cheap and available. Unique is not the cleanest powder but my handguns like it. It is not dirty to the point of gumming up my 1911 or HiPower just leaves black residue. I typically load "medium" loads in my handguns, I do not load to max.
Accuracy wise some guns just don't like some powders. Just because the velocity was approximately the same from these loads does not mean the accuracy will be the same. You may have to go through different loadings with the titegroup to see if you can find one that works for your gun. It may like the titegroup at a different load.

Unique keeps my handgun reloading powder supplies simple. Some people do not like the unique but for me if it ain't broke...

[bobthenailer]

Ive had good results with Tightgroup powder in the 45 acp with 200 gr cast bullets from several guns.
Tightgroup powder is my go to powder for revolver cartridges from 800 to 1,100 fps.
And i dont really care for Unique in any cartridge, just me ! i havent bought any for over 30 years

[greenrivers]

The number of posts listing Tite Group as a favorite is why I tried it. I do not want max loads in this old war horse, nor do I want puff loads as it serves a purpose as a guardian. Not a lot of wigle room with Tite Group. That left me with the loads chosen. I was not surprised by the Unique though, as it serves well in several other calibers but in single actions. The more I try going from it, the more Unique I seem to use! But that is part of the fun of reloading.

[runfiverun]

I replaced my 5.0 grs of T-group load with 6 grs of unique because I liked the recoil.
the groups, and poi never changed, just the recoil impulse.

[greenrivers]

Set up today over a friends cono.. I played a bit more with the Tite Group, and it did improve the groups to a satisfactory level. Not great. I also loaded a 5.5 gr., and 6.5 gr load of Unique to go with the 6 gr. load I already had. After firing the Tite Group loads, we both fired the Unique loads. All loads in three differant guns. My old GI, a Smith auto and a Smith revolver.
First up was the 5.5 gr. Uniqe load. It was an instant success in all three guns, with all bullet holes touching one another at 25 yards and shot from a seated and rested position. I would like to be able to say that the old Remington Rand GI kept up with the Smith and Wesson's, but it could not. Though it shot remarkably well, and with a bit of trigger work could improve more. We then fired the 6 and 6.5 gr. loads and found the groups opening up. The 6.5 gr. load was too much for the old Remington, and will not be used in it again. No need! All three guns were checked for leading as these are home cast using home grown lube. All bores were again found clean and bright. Thanks for the input and help all.

[Rodfac]

I've got a 90+% condition Remington-Rand .45 that shoots nearly as well as a cpl of my Wilson barrel/bushing combination Colts, and all like Winchester 231 (HP38 equivalent) with 5.0 to 5.2 gr. loads. Sub 2" gps are the average and I've got a bunch that went into 1-1/4"...great load with any good 200 gr TWC. That old Rand has a GI barrel too, and a trigger that shows some smooth creep, then a good crisp let off. About like a two stage military trigger on an M1 Garand or an '03. Good luck with your project, Rod....BTW, 231 or HP38 is my standard powder for all handguns in the 700-1100 fps range of loads. I've yet to see a short gun that wouldn't develop a good load using it, assuming a good barrel. R

[TCLouis]

greenrivers

Sounds like you have one of those elusive cans of powder that was wrongly labeled.

You got a can of the "Loose Group" by mistake.

Years ago I cast up a bunch of 200 grain boolits for a friend to run throuh his 1911. Nice tight group was reported bu him for that batch of boolits.

I got my hands on a bunch more lead and alloyed it all into a batch that I thought would be similar.

Next batch I cast for him and he could not keep a magazine full on a sheet of notebook paper. 1911s are pickier than the wheel guns methinks.

on another note with an education in science it fascinates me how unpredictable expected vs actual results can be when reloading.

The only gem of predictability that some shared that seems to hold true is when the group shape changes from a random smattering to a circular pattern one is on the way to the most accurate load for that combination of ingredients. The best group for that combination may still be far from the best combination for that gun.

[wallenba]

All my autos love W231, 9mm, 380 and especially the 45ACP.

[greenrivers]

The old Remington definately needs a bit of trigger work. Not being an auto fan, I want to discuss what can be done with the gunsmith without degrading the handgun in both trigger work and tightening the groups. Likely just the trigger work to start, as it is in the five to six pound range.
I was also surprised that the conogragh noted only a 30 fps drop in velocity over bothe the Tite Group and higher charges of Unique. All of the rounds tried showed a very small deviation.
The "Loose Group" could also refer in this case to the guy behind the trigger!
Rodfac, your comment about the Remington as well as the potential of mine give me hope of easy improvement. Even if it never does better, I am satisfied that it will outperform the needs of it's intended duty. But it is fun trying!

[TXGunNut]

The old Remington definately needs a bit of trigger work. Not being an auto fan, I want to discuss what can be done with the gunsmith without degrading the handgun in both trigger work and tightening the groups. Likely just the trigger work to start, as it is in the five to six pound range.
I was also surprised that the conogragh noted only a 30 fps drop in velocity over bothe the Tite Group and higher charges of Unique. All of the rounds tried showed a very small deviation.
The "Loose Group" could also refer in this case to the guy behind the trigger!
Rodfac, your comment about the Remington as well as the potential of mine give me hope of easy improvement. Even if it never does better, I am satisfied that it will outperform the needs of it's intended duty. But it is fun trying!

Might want to pose the trigger question on "Gunsmithing" but a good start is polishing the bow of the trigger where it slides in the frame, check for burrs on the upper and lower edges as well. That's always given me the results I'm looking for. My 45's are carry guns so I'm not looking for a very light trigger.