Rationing, profiteering and non-shooters

[Recluse]

Finally left the house yesterday for a full day's outing after having come home from the hospital a week or so ago. Headed for the hanger which is not too far from Cabela's/Fort Worth. Also have a little 15-yard indoor shooting range and gun store that opened up around two years ago not far away I'd been meaning to check out.

Decided to stop in Cabela's and look for a Blackhawk holster for a new Beretta PX4 Storm I recently acquired. Figured while I was there, I'd browse the store. They have lots of benches and places to rest so if I got tired (which I did), I could always sit down and take a load off and visit with whoever happened to be close by.

In the reloading section, I saw signs all over the place that informed customers of "rationing" limits. For reloading equipment like dies, the limit was two sets of any given caliber. For components like bags of brass and boxes/bags of bullets, the limit was two. They had similar restrictions with some of their more popular ammo calibers, and as expected, there were no primers or powder to be had.

I saw a guy I've come to know that works there and asked him about the signs. He shook his head and said, "It's been the damndest thing. We got in a case of Lee .223 dies and these two guys came in and loaded the entire case up in their shopping buggy."

We're talking around forty sets of .223 dies here.

The employee went on to explain: "We asked the guys how many presses they had that they needed forty sets of .223 dies. The two guys looked at each other and one said, 'what do you mean by presses?' Turns out neither of the guys reloaded at all."

What happened is that they had been following all the news stories and gun forums about ammo shortages, component shortages and reloading equipment shortages and had been going around emptying shelves anywhere and everywhere they could find components and equipment for calibers like .223, 9mm, .308, 7.62x39, 45ACP and 40S&W.

Then, the guys were auctioning it off on every online site they could find, Amazon.com, and Craigslist.

Cabela's told the guys to put the merchandise back on the shelf and to get lost. The guys argued with them about "having a right to buy whatever and how ever as much of whatever they wanted" and that Cabela's was "breaking the law by refusing to sell to them."

Apparently they were getting a little rowdy until a couple of typical Fort Worth, Texas "good ol' boys" sided up to them and explained things to them, after which they escorted the two numbnuts to the door.

The Cabela's employee said they had had problems with their online ordering so far as people ordering massive amounts of components and dies and the such, but that initially it was harder to police. Now, they review the orders and if it seems excessive and it's from someone who's never ordered from them, they limit the order.

At the little shooting range, I'd walked in and signed the waiver sheet and was getting my range rules briefing (I'd never been in the place before) and this guy around my age butts in front of me and asks to buy almost all of the 9mm and 40S&W ammo they had sitting out. The young lady asked him if he was going to be shooting there and the guy said he didn't even own a gun--he was buying it for resale.

She firmly told him that she'd be happy to sell him ONE box of ammo along with the rental of a firearm and range time and targets, but no "out of the door" sales.

And then, unbelievably, the SOB starts getting hostile with her, and then ugly. She held her ground but you could tell she was starting to get a little shaky. Nobody at this range wears guns on them, for some unfathomable reason.

I'd had enough and told the guy to haul *** and not come back. He started to get rowdy with me and another couple of younger guys (customers) came around and backed me up and they used language that wasn't pretty or PC. Seems both were on leave from the Navy. God bless the squids.

The young lady told me that they're seeing more and more of these non-gun owning alpha-hotels trying to buy stuff up and that one can only speculate if they are doing it try and turn a profit, or worse, just to make it unavailable to the rest of the shooting world.

It's not all panic-buying, folks. There are other things going on with these shortages, too.

:coffee:

[ktw]

It's not all panic-buying, folks. There are other things going on with these shortages, too.

There doesn't appear to be any shortage of bricks of 22lr or sleeves of primers on gunbroker.com.

-ktw

[Love Life]

That, KTW, is the truth.

Wait until these bills stall, and the supply chain catches up. They'll be left with stock they have to take a loss on. Although I see this shortage lasting clear through the summer.

[Freightman]

Gun show had bricks of 22 ammo (cheap Federal) $100 a brick and the sad part is they were selling it.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Was looking at molds on the auction site the wife buys off of and there were Lee 6 cavity handles with people bidding on them in excess of $50 , a brick of .22 at a gun show for $100 , this is all insanity.

[Swamp Man]

I've seen these some type of people out trying to buy everything they can that's a hot selling item right now. Most of our shop owners have put limits on lots of items in the last few weeks not just ammo. I've also noticed that there is now more stock in the shops for us gun owners to buy. I bet there is a connection to them limiting items that were being bought up by resellers.

[x101airborne]

My neighbor came by today and asked if I had any 9mm. I handed him three boxes of lead 125gr reloads that I cast. He said, how much?. I said nuthin. He shook my hand and left.
An hour and a half later he called and his friend was offering me 30.00 a box for the same loads. I lied, (something I HATE doing) and said that if I sold him ammo, I was bound by manufacturing standards and liability. I could GIVE him the ammo, though, no problem. He said, "What do you drink?" I told him and he thanked me. I havent seen the prize, but I have 150 rounds waiting for my neighbor to pick up. A 13.00 bottle of R&R would just tickle me to death.

[Goatwhiskers]

Guess I'll never have personal knowledge, but I keep thinking about these "speculators" that at some point a little further down the road are gonna take a real licking on this stuff they've "invested" in. GW

[pthunder1971]

I am just outside Houston with a big BassPro shop near me and they are rationing bullets, powder, primers Etc. Most of the stores around here are empty. I few of the guys at work know I reload and a couple have asked to get some ammo from me, I have had to turn them away.

My one wish is that the suppliers can catch up quicker then these people can unload what they have purchased and they get caught with their pants down. luckily like most on the board I have been reloading for about 5 years and had enough stocked up that I am not worried about what I have.

I did start casting last year and even found a tire store to get some WW that turned out to be 90 Zinc/****. Houston has a nice lead company that we are able to get #2 lead 100 Lbs at a time and last time it was around $2.00 a lb.

I expect that Obama is stocking up the Government warehouses and such but I think the panic buying / profiteering that is going on will last for some time till people at the stores stop selling to them.

Thanks for all the insight you all have and share on the board, I am glad I am not the only one that feels like this is just crazy.

[GL49]

It's not only the non-shooters. I work with a guy that does a lot of shooting and now he's out of LP primers, I sold him 10 thousand SP three weeks ago. So I agreed to part with a good portion of my LP stash just to help him out, sold at what they cost me to buy three years ago, $30/thousand. Turns out, at least from what I hear, he's telling people at the gun club he "thinks" he can come up with more primers at $55/ thousand, he'll let them know. Ummm, I'm beginning to figure this out.

[gbrown]

If you look at "Shortages Explained" on this forum, you get an idea of what is going on. I see it locally on a classified section. People exploiting and gouging. I see it on Ebay with a Lee 39.99 mold going for $113.00. We all need to be patient and let supply catch up to demand. Timeline? 4 maybe 6 months? I only hope a lot of these scalpers/gougers end up with a lot of things that they cannot sell or have to take a loss on. Me, for one, I'm in it for the long haul and will hunker down and try to wait it out.

[MtGun44]

I want to see one of these guys get to 'eat' forty sets of .223 dies when the market drops
to what they paid for them or hopefully LESS.

Bill

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Just like the "last panic", some people will get stuck with a lot of stuff they paid way too much for. If they want to hold it for possible future need, OK. If they were hoping to "make a killing" with quick resale, I hope they go hungry for a while.

[Rafe Covington]

There doesn't appear to be any shortage of bricks of 22lr or sleeves of primers on gunbroker.com.

-ktw

LOL LOL LOL

Rafe

[garym1a2]

I say now is a great time to sell off your excessive molds and loading gear if you have stuff in .223 or 9mm.

[slim1836]

Recluse,

If you ever get down to Spinx Airport ( in Burleson area) I'd like to buy you a beer at the local Chilis. I work during the day but usually evenings and weekends are open. Be glad to meet ya.

Slim

[Wal']

I think a lot of you are underestimating these speculators come scammers, most of them are not stupid sadly, the excessive gear they're buying up in bulk would have already been pre sold or they know where they can offload it at a profit.

There are always some in our world who scam every opportunity presented. :(

[Swamp Man]

I am planning on buying a press and supplies to load shotshells for my 410 but I won't buy until this buying/selling rush is over. I never even got started reloading because I'm not in this rat race I'll wait until the stock and prices level out.

[Recluse]

Recluse,

If you ever get down to Spinx Airport ( in Burleson area) I'd like to buy you a beer at the local Chilis. I work during the day but usually evenings and weekends are open. Be glad to meet ya.

Slim

I fly down to Spinks semi-regularly--I like to stay "grass proficient" on their turf runway. Also heard they've got a pretty good little hamburger grill there on the field.

Will have to put this on my list of short-hops in the near future.

:coffee:

[P.K.]

I think a lot of you are underestimating these speculators come scammers, most of them are not stupid sadly, the excessive gear they're buying up in bulk would have already been pre sold or they know where they can offload it at a profit.

There are always some in our world who scam every opportunity presented. :(

Tell that to the joker in my area on C-list. I guess he raided Grandad's shed (I'm thinking stole) and has a clapped out bottom pour( Rusty and covered in slag. Thinking sinker molds) and a couple of Lee 9mm moulds (2 cav.) with a "make an offer" tag in the add. I did, $50.00. He told me he couldn't take anything less than $200.00.:veryconfu

Another want's a grand for a Lee Pro 1000 with dies and nothing else, there are plenty of rocket surgeon's out there too. :wink:

[Blacksmith]

After last time when things eased up for a long time you would go to gun shows and see guys still trying to get $50 or $60 a thousand for primers and not making any sales because others were selling at $30. I always figured they were the ones who got stuck and would rather sell nothing than sell at a loss.

[WILCO]

or worse, just to make it unavailable to the rest of the shooting world.

Yep. I've heard reports of this too. Radicalized communist faithful doing their part for the cause.

[cloakndagger]

Last gun show in our state capitol was laughable, literaly, several times my buddy and I were approached by browsers trying to sell $1000 mossberg 500's and $120 boxes of "ultra premium" federal 22lr ammo. Some vendors had LR ammo upwards of $1 per round, some had not even removed the old $5 a box stickers from last years show. After an exchange with one vendor several of us were bemused by a rotund, but wise fellow in beat up overalls and hat laughing and doubling over so hard that we were afraid for his health. One fella around asked the vendor why the ruckus, he replied that the guy asked the price on 550 count federals and he told him $100/bx. By this time our laughing friend had straightened up and told the vendor to go somewhere with something in some body orface.

On another note a couple co-workers were realy bummed last week because they wanted to go shoot their new .38's but had no ammo, so the next day I gave them both a box ea of the $10/bx federals that my smith doesnt like. This morning i got to work and there was a bucket FULL of LEAD ww's, and a two gallon tote of stick ons which cradled a bottle of sailor jerry wrapped in pics the guys had taken over the weekend of them and their families out shooting. I think they are gonna get another box or two ea :) i can always make more ammo, but friends, well theyre hard to make, esp ones that know your favorite bottle

[dudits]

i am associated with a fellow that purchased 15 beta mags from sportsmans. he is sellin them for 400$ each.
he has asked me for ammo several times over the last month, to which i reply "you disgust me"
this man has never shot a day in his life, and preaches gun cotrol...

i agree with yall on the hoping they get stuck with stuff. sure would be nice to see a little karmic return

[eljefe]

I had a customer come in today and ask us to ship some
ammo for him. He sold two boxes of 9mm for $70 on Gunsamerica.
We do not ship ammo, since UPS and FEDEX are now requiring
additional documentation and training.

I ALMOST felt sorry for him...

[dakotashooter2]

I would have sold all those dies to those guys........ I just would have asked for their tax number.......You know the one the states and IRS want us to have to sell products..........Same for the guys reselling ammo...wonder what their FFL # is.............

[Swamp Man]

I would have sold all those dies to those guys........ I just would have asked for their tax number.......You know the one the states and IRS want us to have to sell products..........Same for the guys reselling ammo...wonder what their FFL # is.............I was just about to say we need to check into some of the sellers to see if they have FFL. If we buy from them and they don't have FFL number can we turn their @@@ in?

[Recluse]

I would have sold all those dies to those guys........ I just would have asked for their tax number.......You know the one the states and IRS want us to have to sell products..........Same for the guys reselling ammo...wonder what their FFL # is.............


I was just about to say we need to check into some of the sellers to see if they have FFL. If we buy from them and they don't have FFL number can we turn their @@@ in?

Why in the world would we want to do that?

That would simply be inviting MORE government regulation in to the gun world, which we don't need. I enjoy purchasing firearms face-to-face so as not to have to fill out a stinking ATF 4473 form and have yet another record of yet another firearm I own.

No, the solution is to let these dweezils choke on their goods--especially the dweezils that don't even reload or stay active in the gun community.

:coffee:

[Swamp Man]

Why in the world would we want to do that?

That would simply be inviting MORE government regulation in to the gun world, which we don't need. I enjoy purchasing firearms face-to-face so as not to have to fill out a stinking ATF 4473 form and have yet another record of yet another firearm I own.

No, the solution is to let these dweezils choke on their goods--especially the dweezils that don't even reload or stay active in the gun community.

:coffee:
Yeah I guess you got a point the Government would most likely use it against us and not the ones reselling without FFL. Just trying to find a way to put a stop to this BS their pulling.

[xs11jack]

The sad part is the fact that a lot of the scum that is buying bulk has a lot of it already sold or has a market for it. A good bunch will end up in trouble when the prices come down, but usually these are the dumb ones that are hanging on for just a little bit more money and get caught on the downside. It is just about impossible to get people to stop buying from these scumbags and wait out the price gouging. The prices would come down a lot sooner then and the gougers would take a beating.
Jack

[Swamp Man]

The fact is I really don't need ammo or any thing their reselling but it ticks me off when folks that have no ammo at all can't go buy it at a shop or store. I seen a old man and his wife trying to buy one box of 50 22lr the other morning at Wal-mart and couldn't get them. I heard his wife ask him "what will we do if someone breaks in" this got to me. These two were well into their late 80's I called the man over and asked him if he really needed a box he said "yes I only have two shoots left at home". I told him if he could wait for a bit I'd be right back I ran home and got a box of CCI stands and returned and gave them to him. He wanted to pay me for them and my gas I told him no he said he had to give me something. I told him he could buy me a cup of coffee and we would call it even they pulled over to the store and we got a cup of coffee and talked while we drink the coffee. He had been trying to get one box of 22lr for over two weeks without any luck or help from anyone. There had been a few houses broke into near them in the last 3 weeks and these two were old and only had a 22 pistol with two rounds for protection.

[P.K.]

The fact is I really don't need ammo or any thing their reselling but it ticks me off when folks that have no ammo at all can't go buy it at a shop or store. I seen a old man and his wife trying to buy one box of 50 22lr the other morning at Wal-mart and couldn't get them. I heard his wife ask him "what will we do if someone breaks in" this got to me. These two were well into their late 80's I called the man over and asked him if he really needed a box he said "yes I only have two shoots left at home". I told him if he could wait for a bit I'd be right back I ran home and got a box of CCI stands and returned and gave them to him. He wanted to pay me for them and my gas I told him no he said he had to give me something. I told him he could buy me a cup of coffee and we would call it even they pulled over to the store and we got a cup of coffee and talked while we drink the coffee. He had been trying to get one box of 22lr for over two weeks without any luck or help from anyone. There had been a few houses broke into near them in the last 3 weeks and these two were old and only had a 22 pistol with two rounds for protection.

That right there is what it's all about.

[Wis. Tom]

I tip my hat to you, Swamp Man. May you be blessed for your kind heart and compassion.

[TheGrimReaper]

It does tick me off too that people do this and that people buy it at those stupid prices!

[Area Man]

Guess I'll never have personal knowledge, but I keep thinking about these "speculators" that at some point a little further down the road are gonna take a real licking on this stuff they've "invested" in. GW

I'd pay good money for a ticket to watch that happen.

[Adam10mm]

I would have sold all those dies to those guys........ I just would have asked for their tax number.......You know the one the states and IRS want us to have to sell products..........Same for the guys reselling ammo...wonder what their FFL # is.............
To clarify, no FFL is needed for selling ammo you didn't make. An FFL (06, 07, or 10) is only required for those manufacturing and selling their ammunition.

[Adam10mm]

I'd pay good money for a ticket to watch that happen.
Happened back in mid 2009. I know a lot of people that that have a pile of cash looking to pick up the cheap guns that will be on the market once people feel the credit card payment sting of their purchases.

[dudits]

hell yeah, there is gonna be good deals on guns soon.
i have already found a few :) well below MSRP. just not on tacticool stuff.
got a walther p22
taurus tracker 17hmr revolver and a 17hmr pump :)

[TheGrimReaper]

I had a customer come in today and ask us to ship some
ammo for him. He sold two boxes of 9mm for $70 on Gunsamerica.
We do not ship ammo, since UPS and FEDEX are now requiring
additional documentation and training.

I ALMOST felt sorry for him...

What is this about training and such for amm0???

[Del-Ray]

What is this about training and such for amm0???

I believe for shipping "ORM-D: small arms ammunition". Before you could walk into a UPS central shipping hub, (not a UPS store) and you could ship it. Provided it was packaged properly, not rattling around, taped properly, and with proper signage. I.E. "ORM-D- small arms ammunition" stickers on 4 sides. By shipping as such you basically were attesting to the fact that you had down loaded or ordered the proper paperwork. And thus were trained on how to ship it.

I think they want to see a certificate now. Or are making you sign something to that effect.

[eljefe]

Del-Ray answered what we have been told by Fedex and UPS.
I ship quite a number of firearms for customers, and used to ship
ammo for them...not any more, at least for the ammo.

[Adam10mm]

New regulations for shipping ammunition aren't in full effect until 2014 due to the transition period.

[TXGunNut]

I fly down to Spinks semi-regularly--I like to stay "grass proficient" on their turf runway. Also heard they've got a pretty good little hamburger grill there on the field. -Recluse

If its as good as the Blue Hangar I'd like to try it out. I cruise the used gun racks and reloading aisle at the Ft Worth Cabelas as well, I'm glad the speculators were shown the door. As I'm sure you know they have plainclothes security and they are never far from the ammo and reloading section these days. They are getting in powder a few times a week and primers show up from time to time. If you'll let our mistachioed friend know what you're looking for he sometimes has some insight.
Meanwhile, get to know the guys in the Gun Library. There are some things coming in or in back rooms that could be interesting.