Help me out guys, I am about to buy a Makarov.

[olivestab]

Ok, I have had my eyes on this makarov at the local shop, and today I visited a new shop, and this guy has a different variant.
Now I am presented with two choices, and one of them is a $30 difference.
I am new to the forum and new to fire arms, and this is my first pistol purchase.

1. Makarov -East Germany $279.tax -What I originally had my sights on.
2. Russian Makarov. -$250.tax -New gun I discovered today.
I am displaying two exact pictures of the options..

-1st makarov, the East Germany make.
comes with two mags, and had a rubber grip attached to the original handle -wear and tear.
63926
-The 2nd Makarov, just says strait up: Russian Makarov, but it has adjustable sights.
comes with 2 mags, the original Leather pouch-very clean, almost no wear and tear marks.
63927

I do not like the idea of the adjustable sights because it may snag on something if concealed,
and I would hate to constantly adjust the sights if I bump it too often.
Are adjustable sights a problem?
However, due to the condition of the "Russian" makarov, I feel that I would be passing up a HUGE deal+collectors Item, since the Russain Makarov is being sold with its original holster at a cheaper price.
Let me know what you think.
Ill be purchasing soon, if I wait too long, I may just be forced to choose if someone buys one of them.

[john hayslip]

I have the East German one and I like it. No problems. I got it when they were first available. At the time one could find barrels to replace the 9x18 with a 380 barrel for which ammo was much more available. The swap presents no feeding or other problems. The two cartridges apparently have comparable ballistics. I still have the vise thingy to remove the barrel and would loan it to you should you want to do the same conversion.

[dubber123]

They imported the Russian ones by the tens of thousands, so I'm not sure you will ever see any collectors value, so I wouldn't let that be a consideration. The adjustable sights on the Russian are nice for shooting, but not the most robust design for carry. FWIW, I just bought a like new Russian, with 2 mags for $200. I considered it a good deal, and the $250 price tag the one you are looking at seems fair to me.

[gunfan]

They are both quite nice. The East German models are "collectible" while the Russian models are less so. If myou're looking for just a "shooter" the Russian will work quite well. The East Germans shoot well too, but command a slight premium. $29 for the difference is not much. BTW, the .360" bullet in the Makarov round is a bit "peppier" than the .380, but nothing that can't be eclipsed by a good Buffalo Bore load in the .355" dia. .380.

The choice is yours.

Scott

[olivestab]

Thankyou very much for rhw comments.
I do intent to have the gun for concealed carry/personal defense.
The adjustable sights where a problem for me, but overall was the "condition" of the russian mak, it has NO wear and tear on it.
Im really not sure at this point, I would side for the russian one just to save money.

However, the east germany looks like it would "fit" me better, especially since it has no adjustable sights.
I guess we will see when the time comes, I still gotta wait untill april to make a purchase.

[Artful]

I have a Russian with adjustable sights - the sights hold well enough but for Everyday CCW I'd go with the fixed original sights.
From side by side examination of the East German vs my Russian, I would say the East German's did better work (fewer tool marks internally).

Either will work just fine - I would advise getting the stronger recoil spring from Wolff springs it does help with the muzzle flip when the slide gets to the end of it's travel.
And yes the 9x18 Makarov is more powerful than the .380 ACP, I also got the Pierce Rubber Grips which help me with control

A good website for future Mak owner
http://www.makarov.com/

john hayslip - would you consider taking some good pictures and measurements of your barrel press as I was thinking about
picking up a 380 barrel for my Mak as the surplus ammo seems to be becoming an iffy thing. Or most ammo is I guess

[Dutchman]

I've owned a Russian civilian IJ70 .380 acp and I currently own an East German Mak 9x18mm.

Nothing wrong with the Russian IJ70. Shot fine. But as you say the adjustable rear sight is rather bulky. I didn't like it for that reason so I got rid of it and got the East German Mak which I really like. I'd say get the East German Mak.

I'm also very partial to my Beretta m/1934 .380 acp.

http://images55.fotki.com/v1617/photos/4/28344/8945429/DSCF1913p-vi.jpg
http://images51.fotki.com/v299/photos/2/28344/157842/mak2-vi.jpg

[Kull]

Recent video I thought might be of interest.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAEbbhRJNYw

[Lonegun1894]

I had a Russian IJ-70 .380 with the adjustable sights, but I used it for target practice and small game hunting. It was always a very accurate and very reliable little gun, and I did carry it concealed a few times, and would again if I hadn't sold it. The only 2 reasons I sold it was because I realized that I wasn't doing anything anything with it that I couldn't do with a .22 LR, and that it had a 2/3rds unsupported chamber and brass was only good for 2 reloads before it would crack, so feeding it was expensive even when casting and then loading my own. Now I hope mine was just a oddity as I haven't heard thos complaint from other Makarov owners, and I would buy another knowing what to look for now, but the one I had ate too much brass so it went down the road.

[olivestab]

Thankyou guys, I think I have settled for the East German mak.
I just hope nobody picks it up, I dont have the cash on hand this moment, but when I do it better still be there in the display case.

[Fishman]

Both are good pistols bit the East German has some history as it was issued as a police sidearm. The Russian is commercial manufacture for import. In my experience the East German version is usually a little better finished and smoother, but either would do you well. Be aware that the barrel dimensions usually are larger than the nominal .363. My East German slugged .364+ and the Russian was .365+. Not a big deal, just don't reduce your cast boolits too much. They are very accurate and easy to shoot.

[NVScouter]

I have the Hungarian version with fixed sites. That round is awesome in that pistol, its a perfect fit IMHO. The fixed sites were a bit low with 109s but dead on with 90g bullets. Its heavier than new pocket pistols but decocks, SA/DA, nice design and shoots every time.

I wouldnt worry about collectors value, its a good practical pistol. FYI I stopped shooting the 109g rounds didnt like the slap, lots of folks who want to shoot them replace the recoil spring from WOLF.

[waksupi]

The adjustable may be overkill on these little guns, but can be changed easy enough. I was shooting my PA63 yesterday at 35 yards, and was hitting well enough to have given a bad guy a bad day.

[Biggfoot44]

Specifically between the two , I'd pick the E. German. Considered strictly as a pragmatic CCW / SD pistol rather than an interesting semi-collectable , there are a dozen better choices.

[tejano]

Several years ago at my local range I watched a rather large German shoot tiny groups at 7 yards with an East German Mak. Then he did almost as well at 15 and 25 yards. Naturally I sought to speak with him. He had just bought the pistol at a gun show that same day for $200 and knew he had gotten a bargain. As good fortune would have it I lucked into an even better deal on an East German Mak at $150 a few months later. Sadly I am not anywhere the shot that German fellow is, wherever he may be. Still, it is a much favored among my collection.

[tejano]

My Mak and target. 98gr. LRN and 3.7 gr. of Unique.64367

[Ragnarok]

I've owned a couple Russian IJ 70 pistols...they are perfectly good pistols..reliable and accurate. I still own one but hardly ever shoot it.

I remember when these hit it big in the late 80's/early 90's...I bought my first Makarov and some Chinese mil-surp ammo...the Russian pistol would run reliably on the Chinese ammo...but the ammo had so little power it would hardly penetrate 1/4" plywood target board!!..many bullets either sticking in the wood or some bouncing off!

I wasn't real impressed with the 9x18 mak round until I got some better ammo. Back then 9x18 Makarov ammo could be tough to find too.

Ammo shouldn't be an issue these days

[Sprue]

Hands down on the E. Ger providing its in decent shape... they ARE more sought after. Some bring high $$$$. The only thing that comes to question is its over all condition - for that price. The E. Germans that I've seen have been in the $350 - $400 range and up.

Don't have the money..... by all means go Lay-a-way and tie it up.

If you plan on reloading for it, CAUTION ! do not hot rod it. They are of Blowback design, meaning keep it 1000 fps or less, in other words.

Run now.....! And Lay-it-away (the one of your choice - that is)

Either way, you'll never lose any money on them should you ever decide to sell.

Cheers

[tejano]

Agree with Sprue. Run. If you are lucky it will still be there for you to put on layaway. I don't have a second E. German gun pistol because one has not shown up at my LGS. I have a standing request with one of the salesmen to call me if one shows up and is not immediately grabbed by another one of the regulars.

[Fishman]

I also agree with Sprue. I was in my lgs the other day and laid away a nice Bulgarian Mak for the princely sum of $200. I knew it would be gone shortly if I didn't. Now to figure out how to shoot three Maks at once . . . ;)

[Tristan]

The E. German versions typically display superior fit and finish, and likely a better trigger action as well.

If you don't want the E. German Mak, please PM me the shop's name and number! ;-)

[TCLouis]

Dang, they are great little pistolas, but sure have gone up in price.

CZ-82 have more rounds in the Magazine, but are fatter too.

[lar45]

I have an E German and Russian Maks. I like the German one soo much that I sold my Walther. The Russian is a good gun, but the fit and finish on the German one is soo much better.

[jlchucker]

Has anybody got any experience with the Polish ones in 9mm being advertised in Shotgun News? I was at my gunsmith's last week, thumbing thru his copy and noticed an ad for these. I may be interested in one out of respect for my Polish ancestors.

[9.3X62AL]

I've owned an East German Makarov since c. 1992, and it is by some distance the best and most powerful pocket blowback autopistol I've ever owned--and I've had scads of them. Some are still around, too. While the specs provide for a 95 grain bullet running 1115 FPS, 95% of my loads consist of R-P 9mm Luger brass trimmed and expanded to Mak specs, then refilled with enough WW-231 or Unique to prompt 1000 FPS from the RCBS 100 grain RN @ .365". OAL is .980", and they run like water down a drainpipe. Accurate, too--small game- and varmint-capable well past 35 yards.

[Jal5]

I have the CZ82 and it shoots fine with the Lee boolit for Makarov. Joe

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have had a Russian one for many years. It is my easy chair gun. IE; it is in my easy chair.

Mine got an aftermarket barrel and compensator which actually works and improved the pistol tremendously.

Luckily the instructions for installing the barrel also talked about smoothing out he inside of the gun and doing a trigger job.

There is no word in the Russian language for "Deburring." They just like to let stuff wear in. To give you an idea, the recommended "breakin period" for A Ural Motorcycle, which is roughly a knock off of a prewar BMW, is 20,000 miles!

My gun is very accurate, and runs well with the Norinco Ammo I ahvge been shooting in it for along time. I also have dies adn enough 9mmcases to make ammo for it for a thousand years.

The top of the MAK heap is the double stack (12rnd) East German guns, next the single stack E.German, then Bulgarian, then Russian,,, Then way down the list are Chinese ones which are Krap.

I think I will shoot mine at my next IDPA match. It is an informal one and a good thing because the Mak wouldn't make major power factor if anyone checked.

They are good guns.

The other one to look at is a CZ82. They are really good guns and run the same round.

Randy

[HATCH]

I have owned about 6 or 7 over the years. 1/2 are east German and 1/2 are Bulgarian.
The Russian fixed site models are military issue while the adjustable models are commercial versions.

I have reloaded for mine (9x18) using unique. Its got some snap for sure.
Mihec made a hp mold for them. Nice mold cast perfect boolits

[canyon-ghost]

Noticed Erik Ohlen at hollowpointmold.com has a mold for Maks. Just a thought.

Ron

[badbob454]

e German hands down . i owned 3 maks at the same time ,(collector lic. ) and the e, German shot a 5'' pattern at 50 yds .. the Bulgarian shot @ 8-10'' the e German will feed every boolit configuration without a hiccup.

[HATCH]

Thankyou guys, I think I have settled for the East German mak.
I just hope nobody picks it up, I dont have the cash on hand this moment, but when I do it better still be there in the display case.
go put it on layaway.
most places have that.
Russian maks are better then east german but only if they are the military ones.
Military ones are the ones with fixed sites.
The adjustable site models are commercial.
the reason they have adjustable sites is so they could be imported into the country.

I have owned a total of 6 Makarovs.
I still own 4 of them.
Function wise bulgarian and east german are the same.
East Germans have better finish

[GSM]

Anyone read this month's American Rifleman?

Why am I hearing the Twilight Zone theme?


I want a Mak now.

[Lonegun1894]

Not yet but going to now that you've made me curious. After my last one, I doubt I'll want a Mak, but if I wasn't a handloader, I never would have gotten rid of my old one, cause that thing shot GREAT (just ate brass)!

[Jal5]

I have the CZ Mak and love it. Very accurate with my loads. It does toss the brass though.

[bedbugbilly]

I passed on a Russian as I wasn't familiar enough with them to make a decision on picking it up.

Nice looking pistols.

Could some one elaborate a little on converting these with a barrel to shoot a .380? From what I'm gathering here, the only thing needed is a barrel as the rest of the pistol will handle the .380 as far as feeding/extraction? What are you looking at dollar wise for a barrel and the process for changing out the barrel?

Thanks. And good luck with your decision olivestab. Looks like either would be decent and good shooters.

[Beerd]

If the op hasn't decided by now it's probably too late.
Olivestab wrote "I am new to the forum [in 2013] and new to fire arms, and this is my first pistol purchase." I don't know anything about Maks, is it a good beginner pistol?
..

[bedbugbilly]

Sorry - I missed the original posting date - my bad.

But . . my question still stands about converting to .380?

[Trinidad Bill]

Anyone read this month's American Rifleman?

Why am I hearing the Twilight Zone theme?


I want a Mak now.

I thought I had just read something on the Makarov. That was it. I was thumbing through my Blue Press and Rifleman looking for the article. Found it!

[Lonegun1894]

Sorry - I missed the original posting date - my bad.

But . . my question still stands about converting to .380?

I want to say I read that it was a simple press fit, but mine was a commercial version .380 when I got it and I never converted it, so hoping one of the guys who has done it will speak up.

[azrednek]

The top of the MAK heap is the double stack (12rnd) East German guns, next the single stack E.German, then Bulgarian, then Russian,,, Then way down the list are Chinese ones which are Krap.

Randy

Top of the heap with double stack mags until you have to buy a mag!! If you can find one and the seller knows what he's got, $100 minimum.

The Chinese are on the low end unless it is a Viet Nam bring-back with papers. Saw one with papers and NVA holster at a gunshow with a $750 price tag. I very seriously doubt he'll get it but I can remember telling a friend he got screwed paying 115 for a mint 03A3 about 1977.

Anyone under 30 should consider the future collector's value on a Mak pistol. Guess I'm showing my age remembering the glut of Springfields and M-1's. When I started collecting in the 70's. Only the US sniper version rifles and Krag carbines were thought to have any collector's value. The rest were valued as shooters only.

[tejano]

Pistol smith Teddy Jacobson wrote a multipart article on the Makarov a decade ago. Easy to find online for anyone who is interested.

[azrednek]

Pistol smith Teddy Jacobson wrote a multipart article on the Makarov a decade ago. Easy to find online for anyone who is interested.


Your post sparked my curiosity and I had to go find it. Glad I did as it is an excellent, well written and easy to understand article. Here is the link if anybody, especially the OP wants a literal treasure shrove of Makarov knowledge.

http://actionsbyt.typepad.com/actionsbyt/2008/02/makarov-article.html