More on the New Rolling Block

[lawboy]

Well, I got the Rolling Block custom brush gun and I have fired it some. I've used 23.0grs Re7 and 25.0grs 3031, both under 517gr Lyman 457125 bullets cast at 9.5bnh and 22.0bnh, and with oals of 2.55 and 2.880. The gun is on cruise
control with these loads, they are well below trapdoor levels.

The gun is definitely a Remington 1902 No. 1 action. It appears in great shape. the block is very tight, as is the hammer. The main spring is VERY robust, and the trigger return spring is ridiculously strong and makes the trigger pull unbearable. I am going to have to replace it before doing much more shooting.

My hope is that the gun easily handle loads in the 35.0grs of 3031, or 32.0grs of Re7 range. It will be used with cartridges loaded to 2.880 oal using the 517gr bullets.

Is anyone else playing with one of these guns? I would love to compare notes.

[Buckshot]

............The only Rem RB smokless action I have is a So. American contract in 7x57. I do have a No1 BP actioned rifle in .43 Spanish, and have run 370gr slugs up to 1600 fps before. I have backed off those loads a bit though. No issues with them, just no need for such!

If you pick up this months "Handloader" magazine (August) Brian Pierce has an article on loading for the Marlin 1895 and has loads listed not exceeding 28K psi. None use as heavy a slug as yours since they have to cycle in the action. However you might find some of it of use.

.................Buckshot

[lawboy]

I will pick up the magazine and check it out. Venturino wrote up a fairly comprehensive piece on loading 45-70 in rifle magazine a couple months back but most of his date is black powder loads. Are you shooting Black or smokeless in your rollers?

[NickSS]

I use a lot of AA5744 powder in the 45-70 for smokeless loads. Its very close to 4198 in burning speed but is not possition sensitive so no fillers are necessary. I use mostly 300 gr bullets and use them in several 45-70 rifles for plinking and target shooting out to 200 yards. My favorit load is 29 gr of powder with a 399 gr TC bullet. Last time I shot one of my Sharps rifles with this load I got average group sizes of right at 1.5 inches at 100 yards. Bullets were sized to .459" and lubed with my home made BP lube.

[lawboy]

I have seen a lot of recommendations for 5744. I am going to try it.

[fishhawk]

i use 40 gr of 3031 under a 405 gr cast in a 45-70 case in the old remington rolling block that i rebarreld from a 43 egyptian to a 45-90, seems to work for me

[KCSO]

My experience is with an original in 45-75 Gould Express. If your gun has a steel buttplate and the short stock you won't want to soup it up too much as the gun will handle more than you will. If your shoulder will stand it you can boot a 405 up pretty hefty with IMR 3031 starting at about 45 grains and working up from there. I shot up to 48 in my rolly. With the 500 either 3031 or 4895 will let yo go as far as yo can stand. Because of the design of the action the rolly stock sets low and tends to accentuate recoil, this is no account with standard loads but can boot yo around with hot loads.

[lawboy]

Good to know what the Roller can take. Mine is a custom built job made up as a brush gun. Heavy 22-inch barrel, custom stock with shotgun buttpad on it. Still has the standard drop at the comb and heel dictated by the rake of the tang extensions though. I don't plan to push the action at all as I have no need for moose stomping loads. Light to medium loads with heavy bullets will set me straight.

[Harry O]

The main spring is VERY robust, and the trigger return spring is ridiculously strong and makes the trigger pull unbearable. I am going to have to replace it before doing much more shooting.


I got a No. 1 Rolling Block action a while back. I have gotten several articles on rebuilding it, and the factory drawings. I am working out the pits on the outer surface right now (preparation for case hardening). Then, I will work on the action. The people who do this a lot recommend lightening the trigger return spring first. Narrow it down a bit towards the trigger. If that doesn't do enough, then work on the hammer spring.

[KCSO]

Don't lighten the hammer spring any more than absolutly necessary. That hammer has to slam home, fire the gun and lock the gun up tight all at the same time. If there is any dust or dirt the hammer has to swep that out as it slams home. The hammer and the breech block have to fit tight as any play there translates into streached cases. In the Navy Arms rifles and pistols it was found that about 30,000 PSI was the limit before cases streached and seperated. In about 1971 I had one of the early 357 pistols NA # 9. I found that most full house 357's offered then would seperate on the second firing wiht a full reload and that 38 specials would last as normal. The problem was traced in part to too loose of a fit between the hammer and the breech.

[lawboy]

You could not pay me to mess with that hammer spring as I am aware of the many roles it plays. I am going to replace the trigger return spring and be satisfied with whatever improvement that gets me. I intend to be buried with all my body parts!
I tried 35grs 3031 under a 517gr lrn bullet today. Not a hint of any problems. By the way, the action on this one locks up like a vault, no play, zilch, zero, nada. I wish I knew how to post photos as the rifle is quite nice.

[blysmelter]

The Norwegian/Sweedish/danish RBs in caliber 8x58RD(danish krag) is proofed for smokeless loads, actually only smokeless was ever issued. Norma made hunting ammo well into the -60ies, and specialy in Sweden some of this guns is still used for moose-hunting.

[SharpsShooter]

Just food for thought. In my RB, I recently tested the 360gr group buy we ran last year with BP and had very good results. It has plenty of lube capacity to handle the fouling. My load was 65gr of Goex Cartridge with a .030" veggie wad and a .030" card wad compressed .485" to allow that boolit to be seated to the crimp groove. My 100yd groups ran 1 inch to 1.10" over five 3 shot groups. More shooting is needed to see how it holds up at 200-300 yards, but it does look promising at the outset.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r255/SharpsShooter_photos/RB3.jpg


http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r255/SharpsShooter_photos/RB2.jpg

The point I make is you should give BP a serious try. It will surprise you without doubt. The smokeless stuff is ok, but you ALWAYS have to be concious of the pressures for a given load so as to be safe. BP removes that from the worry list. A full case of BP, compressed to allow for seating the boolit, will not harm a RB in good shape.


Have fun with your RB. They are great rifles.


SS

[lawboy]

Sharpshooter, you may be right and I will try some blackpowder here shortly.
I really like your rifle, very nice indeed!
Today I took the action completely apart and, as you know, it is very simple, very crude and very robust. I removed the "truck axle spring" trigger return spring and fashioned a replacement from .047-diameter piano wire. The trigger pull is vastly improved and is roughly about 5lbs now, down from an estimated 10-12lbs! I may further refine the trigger pull by tweeking the bend in the spring, then again I don't really like dismantling rifle actions unless necessary so maybe I will leave it alone. At any rate, I can now fire a 50-shot session without getting a sore and tender trigger finger!

[SharpsShooter]

lawboy,

That is a serious improvement in trigger pull and will help a lot with group size. The previous owner of mine was a serious sillywet shooter who tweaked the trigger to just over 2#. A good trigger is of course a great asset to those distant shots we all love to attempt.:-D My rifle has a preference for the 400gr class of boolits, but the temptation to tinker with with the 360gr was too much to pass on.

461-360GB

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r255/SharpsShooter_photos/461-360GB.jpg


SS

[lawboy]

That is a handsome bullet. I only have two suitable moulds right now, with another two on the way. I have the lyman 457125, which I love, and the RCBS 45-325. I haven't used much of the RCBS bullets, although they seem to shoot fine. I prefer the heavier, bore rider bullets. The 457125 drops at 517, the RCBS drops at 345. In this rifle I am seating the Lyman bullets a few thousands off the lands with an oal of 2.880. I stick to 2.55 oal in the Marlin 1895 Cowboy though.

[SharpsShooter]

That is a handsome bullet. I only have two suitable moulds right now, with another two on the way. I have the lyman 457125, which I love, and the RCBS 45-325. I haven't used much of the RCBS bullets, although they seem to shoot fine. I prefer the heavier, bore rider bullets. The 457125 drops at 517, the RCBS drops at 345. In this rifle I am seating the Lyman bullets a few thousands off the lands with an oal of 2.880. I stick to 2.55 oal in the Marlin 1895 Cowboy though.


The 457125 is the bees knees for almost every 45-70 I have owned. My 75 C.Sharps will put 10 in just over an inch at 100yds with its pet load. Mine also run around 517gr and It is a fine boolit for long range or hunting. This 360gr boolit is my first venture into varmit weight boolits for the 45-70 so time and testing will tell.


SS

[lawboy]

Yes, the 300 grain class of bullets are varmint pills in the 45 Gov't! My RCBS bullet is a good one but I just don't get the same pleasure from shooting it. Too, I don't have a seating stem that will seat them so I have to do it by hand that that is hardon the thumbs.
My friend gave me 50 of his 457132 bullets at 535 grains. I am going to load a few and try them here when I get back from Alabama where I am headed tomorrow with my daughter. The little one and I are going to get the big one settled into her dorm room ... won't be many new rifles for a few years ... [smilie=1: That is okay though, I have more than I can shoot as it is.
I am going to try Du Pont 4895 next, start out with a load of 27 grains with the 457125. After that, will be 4064 as I have two and a half pounds just gathering dust.

[Antietamgw]

Good idea using piano wire for the return spring. Years back I had used pieces of spring from an old wind up alarm clock, recycled after the clock hit the wall one morning. After you have your hunting loads worked out, don't forget mild loads of Unique or Red Dot for fun. 10.5 gr. makes ragged hole groups at 50 yds with several bullets in my Rolling Block with either powder though I prefer the Red Dot. The Red Dot load doesn't appear to be position sensitive and works consistantly for me for field use in any position. Enjoy, these things are addictive!

[lawboy]

I am to chicken to play with small doses of pistol powder in these huge cases. I am just to scared of a double or triple charge. I do shoot reduced loads 90 percent of the time though. I just use Re7 or 4198, or any medium burn rate powder on hand and use 23-27grs depending on the powder. These give me about 900fps and I can easily shoot them all day.
I went ahead and loaded 5 of the 535grainers. I have two sets of dies, RCBS Cowboy and Lyman. My seating stem for this nose profile will not seat them deep enough for my RB to chamber them. The bullet is not a bore rider and my RB as a Government ballseat lead so I have no wiggle room on the OAL with a non-bore rider bullet. I guess I am going to have to fashion a new seating stem.

[lawboy]

Well, spent 8 happy hours at the range today with the rolling block. I'd loaded 101 RP Cases using the Lyman 457125 bullet, 28.0grs. 3031, Federal Primers and an OAL of 2.880. All shots were taken offhand unsupported at a 12-inch-diameter steel plate at 100 yards. 99 hits, two misses. I like the rifle very much. Sharpshooter has some photos of it as he was kind enough to make some suggestions for improving the sighting equipment. Sharpshooter feel free to post the photos of the rifle if you have a mind to. On a side note, Sharpshooter, I think I am going to just buy a Pedersoli RB rather than change the hunting sights on this one. I like it as is and I do want one of the target grade rolling blocks anyway.
Regards to all.