Trouble with a Magma Lubemaster....Help, Please

[Hoss in IL]

Hi folks. I've got one for you to mull over, if you don't mind.

I bought a used Magma Lubemaster that I'm having some irritating problems with. I hope y'all can offer a couple of angles that I may not have thought of to try.

I'm having bullet lube seep UP around the sizing die. I have the PID heater for the heated base set at 118 degrees. The pre-heating band in the lube reservoir is "warm to the touch" as per the manual. It's actually pretty warm but not to where I can't keep my hand on it. Air pressure is set at 60psi and I have the knob that regulates how much lube gets pumped into the lube groove set to be enough to just fill the groove and no more.

This lube seeping to the top of the sizing die is getting on the bottom of my bullet transfer bar and slowing my transfer bar down which really screws up the timing of the whole thing, not good. I also get little pieces of the seeped lube on the bullets as they pass down into the die and I have to clean them all off after I get finished. I have to stop and clean lube off about every 300-500 bullets or things get messy, bullets have lube spots and smears all over them.

I've tried all combinations of adjustments; air pressure, PID temp, pre-heat temp, amount of lube pumped in per bullet. I may have just not gotten the right combination yet, I guess. This is happening of 9mm bullets. I don't remember having this trouble with the 45s.

I called and talked to Magma about some other problems I was having with the caster (this is old, used equipment), mentioned the lube seepage and asked it I was supposed to be using an O ring on the die (Magma dies and there was a package of O rings, that would fit the dies, in with all of the "stuff" that came with the machines when I bought them. Guy from Magma says no O ring necessary, they're press fit dies.

I understand that. When I have to take my die out to adjust the bullet punch depth for different weight/profile (same caliber) bullets, the die is a tight fit, I have to give some pretty good taps with the die removal punch to get it out. That's one reason I'm stumped on this. The die fits good and tight, no scratches or scarring on the outside of it.

I have this all set up in an enclosed room in my pole barn. Room is insulated and sealed up pretty good. I can control the temp. and humidity of the room pretty well. I keep it at about 70 degrees right now. Just threw that in there so you could get an idea of bullet/lube/ambient air temp.

The machine works fine other than this annoyance. I won't get into the troubles I've had with the collator. I must be REALLY dumb to not be able to get that thing to work like I think it should. [smilie=1:

Any body got any ideas?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Hoss

[Roundnoser]

Ok, I don't own a LubeMaster (I'd like to though!) but I do own a number of Star sizers. When you install and/or remove the sizing die is it a snug fit, or loose? If it is snug, I have another question: Are you plugging any holes on the die? If so, you might want to make sure the open holes are not blocked or not too small. My guess is that the lube is not able to flow easily into the die, and could be just barely able to fill the grooves...there may be enough constant pressure remaining in the process to allow the seepage you mentioned.

Also double check that your lube grooves are lining up with the holes. As you know, with these machines being "off" just a little will prevent lube from filling the grooves easily.

[Hoss in IL]

Jon, thanks for the suggestions.

The dies do have a very tight fit. The only holes that are open are the "bottom" holes on the die. The rest are plugged with shot.

I set my bullet punch with a set of dial calipers. I lay the die and an unlubed bullet next to each other, line the lube groove up with the bottom set of "open" holes on the die, and measure the distance from the base of the bullet to the top of the die like that. I follow the rest of the set up instructions to a T

I get what you're saying about the seepage and the lube not being able to flow into the die so the only place it can go is up, path of least resistance. I just came in from giving it another try, got aggravated after a while and walked away from it.

I tool pictures with my phone. I'll try to post them, if I can figure out how to get them off my phone.

Thanks again, Jon

[Hoss in IL]

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Thought I'd post some pictures of what's happening.

Jon, I may take another look at my bullet punch depth. The pictures of the bullets with the lube "tits" on them lead me to believe that the pump is starting to pump lube before the lube groove is lined up with the holes in the die.

You can see how much is seeping out above the die and the transfer bar is shaving it off the top of the die and the accumulation on the bottom of the transfer bar.

Thank God, Hornady One Shot dissolves the lube really quick so it's not that bad to clean off.

I'll give it another try tomorrow.

[runfiverun]

the 45's don't do it but the 9's do.

the 45's use more lube so they are sucking up the heat faster.
turn the heat down on the lube.
it turns liquid at about 120-f airc

or the 9m die has a problem and isn't sealing properly. [diameter, nick]
pull it out and compare it to the 45 die.

[HATCH]

I was gonna say too much heat or too much pressure or both...
Looks mostly like heat.
I only use Magma brand hard lube.

[Roundnoser]

Now that I can see what kind of bullet you are using, I understand what is happening! I have that same mold (Magma 147 gr. FP-BB). I was getting the same little lube blob one the nose of the bullet just above the 0give. What Hatch and runfiverun are saying is correct, and it did the trick for me with my Star sizer....Back off on the pressure and reduce your heat.

Another little trick I learned while sizing those 147 gr bullets was to allow the lube to reach temperature for awhile before I started sizing. I use Magma's thermostatic controlled heater base on mine, and won't start sizing for 15 or 20 minutes just to make sure the lube will flow evenly. Because the temperature needs to be a little lower, the grooves will not fill in completely if you start running them through too soon.

Let us know how it works out.

[KYCaster]

Not as easy as you thought it was going to be, huh? [smilie=1:

What brand of lube? I haven't tried using White Label in the Stars, but if that's Rooster Red, you'll never get it right.

Try setting the temp and pressure without a die in the machine. You should be extruding a ribbon of lube at a rate of about an inch every 4-5 seconds. More pressure, less heat seems to work best for me. When you change the temp, let it set for at least 30 min. before you make any other changes.

Run the machine without the die. You can see how much it pumps....adjust as necessary.

Keep your boolits at a consistent temp. Too cold and they'll suck heat out of the base. You may have to tweak the temp/pressure to compensate.

When you're done for the day, unplug the air and turn off the heater. Don't change any settings.

Lotsa luck.
Jerry

[HATCH]

One more thing it could be too
If your boolits are slightly undersized out of the mold then the lube could seep past the boolit.

[Hoss in IL]

Sorry guys, I didn't forget about the thread, just been busy.

Lube is Magma Red.

I do turn the machine on and let it warm up for about a half hour before I start working.

I tried some things a couple of nights ago. Backed the heat off (the PID controlled base heater) and the pre-heat bands on the lube tube. I think I'm correct in my thinking that the lube tube pre-heater should be a lower temp. than the actual heated base. I did get the lube to stop seeping up past the die but wasn't filling the lube groove. I ran the machine by hand with NO bullet in the die and it was squirting out more than enough lube to fill the groove (I scraped the lube out of a finished bullet to compare) but wouldn't squirt the same amount with a bullet in the die.

I took the lube pump plunger out of the base, cleaned it up, and put it back in, and adjusted the lube pump "dial" to pump more volume. Still didn't work. I was tired so I quit for the night. I'll tackle it again on Saturday.

Thank you for all of the help so far. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Terry

[ReloaderFred]

If you're getting enough lube to fill the lube groove, but not filling it, then it could be that the lube groove isn't perfectly aligned with the lube squirt holes in the die. If only half the hole is exposed, then it takes more pressure for the lube to flow. Just a thought.

Hope this helps.

Fred

PS: Dan Blocker, even though he made his living with a gun on TV, was very anti-gun in real life. He was an ultra-liberal, and championed many leftist causes. Just another thought........

[felix]

That started because of Parnell Roberts, I bet. ... felix

[angus6]

Hoss you get it lined out ? Finally spent sometime with mine and have it running those 147's pretty decently , get to switch over to .45's maybe tomorrow, been along time since I've changed things

[Hoss in IL]

Need more hours in a day......

Ended up talking to Magma, again. I sent my heated base in to have the die hole drilled out, sleeved, welded, and re-milled. Seems to have taken care of the leaking problem. Apparently, the die hole was worn out just enough to let lube seep past. That dude is TIGHT going in now.

When I went to pick the base up at the post office, the box was mangled. The base had corners crushed in from being dropped. I had to take a punch and beat the countersink holes open so I could get my mounting screws back in. The extra heating element that Eric sent me had one wire worn in half and one of the connectors busted to pieces, not Magma's fault...Postal Service. I called Magma, told them what happened, Eric sent me a new heating element (Thank you).

Finally got it all put back together this morning. Been messing with it for a couple of hours. Having to set it up from scratch and not rushing. I'm still getting a little bit of lube blobs. I'll keep making adjustments until I get it. The lube seepage has gone away though.

Thanks again for all of the advice.

Terry