Load Testing the Flat Top .44 Special (or "Why Would I Ever Need a .44 Magnum?")

[35 Whelen]

Good ol' daylight savings provides much more quality shooting time! So after work I retired to the loading bench and shooting range to chronograph and group some loads for my new-to-me Flat Top .44 Special. I'm not all that well versed in firing a handgun from the bench and I could tell everytime the pistol went off and things weren't quite right, and it always showed in the group. Some groups however were pretty nice and I noted the groups size when they warranted it.

Here's some load/chronograph data that might interest some. All loads used Starline brass, 260 gr., .430" (NOE 429421) ACWW, SWC and CCI 300 primers except for the AL2400 loads which used WLP's (All groups were fired @ 100 yds.):

6.5 gr. Unique- 868 fps; 5 Shots- 8"
7.5 gr. Unique- 957 fps (e.s.=20); 4 of 5 shots- 4.25"
8.0 gr. Unique- 1002 fps (e.s.=18)
8.5 gr. Unique- 1051 fps (e.s.=24)

The above loads left a little lead ahead of the forcing cone, so I cleaned the pistol after testing them then fired these:

16.0 gr. AL2400- 1122 fps (e.s.-102); 4 shots- 2.5", 5 shots- 6"
16.5 gr. AL2400- 1189 fps (e.s.- 69)
17.0 gr. AL2400- 1218 fps (e.s.=29); 5 shots- 6" (See below)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Ruger%20Flat%20Top%20Blackhawk/429421100yds-ed_zps11ec5c24.jpg

The last three loads didn't lead the forcing cone at all. It looked like there might have been a teeny bit of lead smear toward the muzzle, but hardly any. I had planned on trying the Keith load of 17.5 gr. of AL2400, especially since I didn't see any pressure signs with the 17.0 gr. load, but I think the 17.0 gr. load will do anything I'll ever need.

All in all I'm thrilled with this pistol, although it really needs a trigger job which should make it group even better! the last load was very pleasing in that it was plenty accurate and it approached the power level of the factory .44 Magnum, so who needs a .44 Magnum! :mrgreen:

I have quite a lot of WW296/H110 and I think I'll try it Wednesday after work. If so, I'll report the results here.

35W

[gunfan]

It's great if you aren't hunting larger quadrupeds. Other than that, Deer, Black Bear and most medium-sized game will drop quite readily to a spicy .44 S&W Special! ;)

Scott

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Great post, only 2 replies so I just want to say I agree whole heartedly with you. For my .44 Specials I've got a few bombs loaded with 12 gr of Blue Dot that are supposed to be max loads at 1130 fps. They don't really feel that hot in my Colt's but these loads are often carried, seldom fired. 5.2 gr of Bullseye at 800 fps is a light load that does 98 per cent of what I want to do when shooting. The 240 gr 429667 is my every day utility boolit cast from wheelweights and the RCBS 44-250-K cast 4 parts Linotype 6 parts ww does the business.

[harley45]

I'd love to find the Bisley model of the 44 that Lipsey's did a while back.

[Taz700]

Nice, I was currious what people were using for 44 special, thanks, looks nice (can't wait to get one like that)

[kidmma]

I've been using the 250k with up to 7.5gr Unique. It seems a bit more consistant with a little less for me.

I used 9 gr Unique with a 210gr j word which was very accurate with my 4 5/8 Flat top.

Haven't tried 2400 or 296 yet.

[Uncle Grinch]

I'm quite interested in your thread since I recently picked up a Ruger flattop 44 Spl. I'm looking for a mild load of 1000 fps or less using the RCBS 250-K PB bollit. Tried Unique at 7.0 and 7.5 and Green Dot at 6.0 and 6.5 and 2400 at 12.0. The Unique was typically dirty with smoked brass. The Green Dot shot good, but W231 did best at 7.0 grains.

I didn''t chronograph any of these as I was testing for bet potential load. I'll work more with the W231 and Green Dot until I come across something that may offer more potemtial.

As far as the gun, it's the best handling Ruger SA that I have. (22LR, .357, .41 Mag, & 45 Colt)

[sundog]

"Why Would I Ever Need a .44 Magnum?"

Well,... if y'all didn't have a .44 Spl, then I recon I could see the need.

[white eagle]

I'd love to find the Bisley model of the 44 that Lipsey's did a while back.
\ya mean like this one http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v730/kempobb/pix648828574.jpg,
sorry if I hijacked the thread but like the op said the specials are well,special.
nice shooting keep us posted

[kidmma]

Whelen, looks like you changed out those cheese grater grips too!

[jonp]

I'm not sure "need" is a useful word when used with a revolver. At least I've never found a use for it. :)

[35 Whelen]

I'd love to find the Bisley model of the 44 that Lipsey's did a while back.

That's what I was looking for when I ran across this ol' girl. I know next to nothing about Blackhawks, but have been told that with a little modification I can install a Bisley grips frame on this Flat Top then of course the trigger and hammer.

In another post (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?189893-44-Special-Flat-Top-432-quot-Cylinder-4295-quot-Groove-UPDATE) I showed some targets fired with 6.5 grs. of Unique which was grouping 2.5 - 3" @ 50 yds at a little over 850 fps. It ought to make a great utility load. In my Colt SA clones 5.5 gr. of B'Eye ran somewhere between 800 and 850 and also grouped well.

I have a pile of RCBS 44- 250KT's lubed and waiting to be loaded but I don't know how they could shoot any better than those from the NOE mould.


Whelen, looks like you changed out those cheese grater grips too!

Actually it came with the wood grips and the plastic ones...I much prefer the wood!

Uncle Grinch I hope you get around to chrono-ing some of those loads as that sort of thing interests me.

35W

[Mr Peabody]

If you get a chance; My .44 special likes 7grs of SR4756 and the 250gr Keith SWC.

[Wooly]

Back when I had my 44 spec & a 44 mag, I shot the same load in both. If I remember,several of us used a 240 gr. bullet & around 8.5 of Unique. I think we used the 8.5 figure(or whatever it was) only because I was using a dipper for powder. Luckily, it worked out well.
Remember what Elmer said about big bore cartridges: If I have to shoot factory ammo,I`ll shoot 45 Long Colt. If I can handload,It will be 44 Special. Paraphrased,so no ".

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Uncle Grinch, you say dirty like it's a bad word. I love the way Unique and Bullseye with Alox smokes and smells, and I don't have to go right to cleaning after shooting like the Holy Black shooters do. Mr. Peabody, my Colt's also like SR7625 too. 7.5 gr of SR 7625 clocks at 827 fps in my 4 3/4" and 858 fps from my 7 1/2". 6.4 gr of Unique clocks at 875 fps from my Colt, sorry, my notes don't include bbl. length, I think it was the 4 3/4". Unique gives me some spreads in velocity with CCI300's and 429667 cast ww. It is fairly accurate tho. It seem to be sensitive to position in the case giving me higher velocities if I tip the muzzle up before firing and lower velocities if I drop the muzzle down before firing. Then the monkey in the works is that Uniques seems to perform best in my .45 Colt's. Very odd Unique performs very well in the larger case and not as well in a smaller case. Gremlins at the loading bench no doubt.

[gray wolf]

Never mind, I engaged my typing before I engaged my brain.

[Vulcan Bob]

Good post with good shooting! I have three flat tops (one 5 1/2" and two 4 5/8") and a 4 5/8" Vaquero in .44 Special and all are really good shooters,Ruger really should list these as target guns. My standard load is seven grains of Unique,standard primer under a 240gr LSWC (904 fps 4" S&W M-21). However I have been loading with Power Pistol with good results. Eight grains of Power Pistol,standard primer under a 240gr LSWC gives very accurate results and should be a 925-950 fps load,I'll break out the chrono when it warms up a bit to check it out. I think loads in this range will handle just about all of one's needs in the lower 48.

[35 Whelen]

Good post with good shooting! I have three flat tops (one 5 1/2" and two 4 5/8") and a 4 5/8" Vaquero in .44 Special and all are really good shooters,Ruger really should list these as target guns. My standard load is seven grains of Unique,standard primer under a 240gr LSWC (904 fps 4" S&W M-21). However I have been loading with Power Pistol with good results. Eight grains of Power Pistol,standard primer under a 240gr LSWC gives very accurate results and should be a 925-950 fps load,I'll break out the chrono when it warms up a bit to check it out. I think loads in this range will handle just about all of one's needs in the lower 48.

Thanks! I agree a 240-260 gr. SWC @ 950 +/- (or less) would do 99% of what I need to do, but my life would be complete if I could take a bull elk with my Flat Top. If I ever have this opportunity, which will mean leaving my trusted and proven rifle at camp, I'd definitely use the 17 gr load of 2400. One other thing I fully intend to do with the heaviest load is master my 200 yd. gong. It's a 22" diameter steel circle and I think once I figure out how to hold, it won't be too difficult.
After that, I'll probably revert back to the 6.5 gr. of Unique as it shot quite wellas is evidenced in another thread.

35W

[High Desert Hunter]

Great writeup, great shooting. I don't have the 44 Spl FT, but I did buy the 45 Colt FT and I love it, I shoot it and my FA 454 the most. Good looking guns those Flattops.

[rintinglen]

That Skeeter Load of 7.5 grains of Unique under a 429-421 is a Dandy in mine. Until I got this flat top, I thought all the flack about 44 Specials was gunwriter hoopla and internet baloney, but I'm a believer now. I've not gone over 15.2 grains of 2400, but that is very accurate too. I also like the 429383 with 5.6 grains of Red Dot, or a 230 grain NOE WC over 5.0 grains of Red Dot.

[35 Whelen]

I love the Skeeter load too and will probably standardize on it. I've tried it out of my Uberti '73 .44 Special lever and it does around 1150 -1200.

Yes, there is NO hoopla about the .44 Spl. It's a fantastic cartridge.

I tested several loads tonight with the RCBS 44-250 KT. I'd have liked to grouped them at 50 yds., but due to the layout of my range, it's difficult to chrono and shoot the 50 yd target at the same time, so I shot at 100 again. This bullet seemed to want to group but was plagued with fliers. Some of them called, some not. Anyhow, I'll try to post the chrono results tomorrow evening.

I fired the lever rifle a little with 15.1 grs. of 2400 and the 260 gr. SWC. It does (going from memory)1300- 1350 and was grouping around 2" @ 100 yds! Bonus!! I tried a couple of the 17.0 gr. loads and they ran a hair over 1500, but I had case separations. So I'll have to back off a bit and/or try shortened .44 Mag cases.

35W

[DaveCampbell]

"Until I got this flat top, I thought all the flack about 44 Specials was gunwriter hoopla and internet baloney, but I'm a believer now."

Hoopla and Internet baloney? From gunwriters??? Perish the thought!!!!! Welcome to the brotherhood rintinglin. I had my first .44 Special built about 34 years ago. Still have it, though I have several more that I shoot/carry more regularly.

Ever notice that there are very few .44 Specials in the used case? Sort of like .270 Winchesters, them that has 'em usually keeps 'em!

---------------------------------------------

A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than a gun in the hands of 200 million law-abiding citizens.

[35 Whelen]

35Whelen,"I tried a couple of the 17.0 gr. loads and they ran a hair over 1500, but I had case separations. So I'll have to back off a bit and/or try shortened .44 Mag cases."

Are you saying that 44 magnum brass is stronger then 44 special brass?
I thought they were all the same, magnum being 1/10th inch longer.

A few weeks ago I sectioned a .44 Special case and a .44 Magnum case. The magnum brass was definitely heavier. I threw them both away, but I'll section a couple more and post pictures, IF I can find a .44 Magnum case in my junk as I don't actually own one.

35W

[Larry in MT]

Nice write-up! I've been having a lot of fun testing loads in my FlatTop off and on for over a year, now.
http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab176/larrykay47/a668c219.jpg

I'm surprised how much difference that 7/8" of barrel makes. 17 grains of 2400 gives me 1060 fps with a 250 grain WFLGC and WLP primers. A max load of Power Pistol or H110 did about the same fps with the 250 grain HardCasts or 240 grain JHPs.

Is the newer AL2400 hotter than my old stuff?

My best accuracy (one ragged hole @ 25 yards) has come with 200 grain XTPs @ 1130 fps, using Power Pistol.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Chrony notes on my Uberti '73 lever 19": 429667 ww .431" Alox 5.2 gr Bullseye=1,030 fps. 429667 ww .431" ww Alox 7.5 gr SR7625=1,104 fps.

I tried 17 gr of 2400 in the .44 Special case with a 240 gr boolit out my Smith Model 29 6 1/2" bbl. It clocked 1164 fps. Oddly my 7 1/2" Colt SAA doesn't like 2400 so I use Blue Dot, Unique, Bullseye SR7625 and Trail Boss. And I bought that 7 1/2" SAA to shoot 2400 out of it. It is a very accurate gun.

[35 Whelen]

Nice write-up! I've been having a lot of fun testing loads in my FlatTop off and on for over a year, now.

I'm surprised how much difference that 7/8" of barrel makes. 17 grains of 2400 gives me 1060 fps with a 250 grain WFLGC and WLP primers. A max load of Power Pistol or H110 did about the same fps with the 250 grain HardCasts or 240 grain JHPs.

Is the newer AL2400 hotter than my old stuff?

My best accuracy (one ragged hole @ 25 yards) has come with 200 grain XTPs @ 1130 fps, using Power Pistol.

Surely it's not just the barrel length.....? For what it's worth, the bore of my little flat top is extremely smooth, almost chrome looking. Maybe this contributes to higher velocities . And yes, I've read the newer AL2400 (Compared to Hercules) is somewhat hotter.

I fired the identical loads with an RCBS 44-250 KT last night. Though it weighs practically the same as the NOE 429421 and the alloys were identical, velocities ran a little slower. I believe this is due mostly to the greater bearing surface of the RCBS bullet.

I'd really like to try some Power Pistol but right now everyone seems to be sold out of it.

35W

By the way, I really like those grips!!

[stormspotter]

Just got my 44 Special, along with a 45 Colt/ACP convertable. I have a set of grips coming for the 44 and am waiting on a couple of holsters to arrive. Just about have everything I need to start reloading. Will post more pictures later.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k10/ema567/012_zps03940121.jpg

[rintinglen]

For what it is worth, this is my FIFTH 44 special. I got my first one, a Charter Arms Bulldog, in 1976. Two years later I got a Colt SAA, then in 80 or 81 I got a S&W Hand ejector, then in 87 I got a 624. None of them could hold a candle to my Ruger Flat Top. It is the most accurate revolver I have, and one of the three most accurate I have ever owned. ( I have had somehing close to one hundred handguns over the last 40 years.)

^ love this picture--those faux Ivorie grips are nice!!

[Gun site]

What is the OL of the cartridge ? How much clearance between boolit and end of cylinder ?
Thanks, Gunsite

[35 Whelen]

What is the OL of the cartridge ? How much clearance between boolit and end of cylinder ?
Thanks, Gunsite

Not sure of the o.a.l. with the NOE bullet, I'll have to measure. There is definitely a bit of clearance between the end of the bullet and the end of the cylinder.

35W

[Rodfac]

I too like the old Skelton load: 7.5 gr of Unique over any good 240 gr LSWC sized appropriately, but gave it up for the most part because of Unique's lousy metering characteristics. I've used Win 231 or its equivalent, HP38 for a decade now with good success and great metering! With 231, a charge of 6.5 gr gives me 984 fps with Lyman's 429215gc, cast from WW and sized to .430" in all three of my Ruger Flat Top .44 Spl's. The same load behind any good 240 gr LSWC, plain base, clocks at 950 avg from my guns. Up that charge to 7.0 of 231, and my 4-5/8" .44 Special Ruger shows 1025 fps with an extreme spread below 30. That first charge, 6.5 gr of 231, is my favorite with either boolit and will consistently shoot into 1-1/2" gps at 25 yds. Pic below is of that 6.5 load and the Lyman 429215gc bullet from the 25 yd line...

I'm fond of that 429215 boolit, with or without the gc as it saves lead over the heavier 240 gr design, drops easily from my old two cavity load, and is equally accurate (when sized .432"), from an early Marlin 336 in .44 Magnum. The Marlin's oversize bore requires the larger dia. but will shoot into an inch at 50 yds with a small 2.5x scope mounted...a delightful pairing that's killed a cpl KY white tails for me over the years. The gc eliminates leading issues up to 1600 fps in the Marlin, even when cast of WW sweetened with a little tin and without the gc and sized .430" it's lead free in any of my .44 Specials, Ruger or S&W.

Best Regards, Rod

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii64/Rodfac/Targets/D44Tgt.jpg

[35 Whelen]

Nice shootin', Rod!

[Char-Gar]

64818

Well, you don't need a 44 Magnum sixgun unless you want to shoot bullets at 44 Magnum velocities. If you are happy with the performance of the 44 Special sixgun, then you are good to go.

I have never found the magic in the 44 Special sixgun that somefolks say they have found. Over the years I have had a dozen or more, but today only have one. I do have several 44 Magnum sixguns in which I shoot 1,000 to 1,200 fps loads, both in Special and Magnum cases.

For grins, here is my only 44 Special. It is a 1931 vintage Smith and Wesson Hand Ejector, that has been over the bench at Micro, with new sights, trigger, hammer and checkered backstrap. It is quite accurate and I stick of 800 fps loads in it. Anything hotter goes in a Smith or Ruger 44 Magnum.

[Char-Gar]

64822

I don't want you guys to think I am against the new Ruger Flatops for they are some of the finest handguns produced in recent years by anybody. Here is my Lipsey's FT 45 with neat Texas mesquite grips by Cary Chapman. This is one fine pistol boys and girls.

[35 Whelen]

64818

Well, you don't need a 44 Magnum sixgun unless you want to shoot bullets at 44 Magnum velocities. If you are happy with the performance of the 44 Special sixgun, then you are good to go.

I have never found the magic in the 44 Special sixgun that somefolks say they have found. Over the years I have had a dozen or more, but today only have one. I do have several 44 Magnum sixguns in which I shoot 1,000 to 1,200 fps loads, both in Special and Magnum cases.

For grins, here is my only 44 Special. It is a 1931 vintage Smith and Wesson Hand Ejector, that has been over the bench at Micro, with new sights, trigger, hammer and checkered backstrap. It is quite accurate and I stick of 800 fps loads in it. Anything hotter goes in a Smith or Ruger 44 Magnum.

Beautiful handgun!

My comment regarding "needing" a .44 Magnum was partially tongue-in-cheek, and partially an open question. I guess my point is, if it can be done with a 260 gr. SWC @ over 1200 fps, then what's the use in the same bullet at 1400+ fps? All I'd ever do with a handgun is pop deer and hogs or MAYBE an elk if I felt confident enough (hope to find out this fall if I'm drawn again). If what I'm hunting needs more power than this, it'll be in the form of a long arm!

35W

[Char-Gar]

Elmer Keith pestered the gun and ammo makers wanting a commercial version of his hot loaded 44 Special load with his bullet going 1,200 fps. What he got was the 44 Magnum with a 1/10 longer case and a couple of extra hundred fps. This was done to prevent the new loading from being fired in some of the old and weak 44 Special sixguns around.

[dougader]

You guys are getting higher velocities than I do with WW231. My 44 flat top has the 4-5/8" barrel. It just looks prettier to me, LOL. I have been loading machine cast 240 grain swc bb bullets with the 6.5 grain 231 load listed above by Rod. While it is accurate, it only shows around 800 fps across my little chrony. Ten (10) grains of Blue Dot averages 915 fps.

I love my little Bisley, and - coincidentally - we both have the same "born on" date! :guntootsmiley:

[Lloyd Smale]

any avid handgunner needs two or three 44 specials, 44 mags and 45 colts. ;)

[Char-Gar]

65237652386523965240Loyd.. I am in. You saw the 44 Special, now here are some more 44 and 45 sixguns.

[Rodfac]

Char-Gar, beautiful grips on that Smith Stainless...what make? Rod

[44man]

Why don't I have a .44 special? Several reasons. I can't afford another gun. Never could just for fun.
Then I wanted to shoot far like Elmer and still do.
Then I like heavy boolits for deer, nothing to do with velocity. They fit the mag better.
The special is a wonderful caliber but like a .41, I have no need and no more money.
Will the special do what you want, darn sure and I envy those wonderful guns.
The special fits just like the .45 Colt, may both live forever.
I have enjoyed this thread.

[big dale]

Thanks for your comment Lloyd. After reading that I realized that I was down to only one 44 Mag so I haunted gun broker for a few days and now another old model Super Blackhawk, circa 1973, is on its way to me. I just love those things.

Have fun with this stuff.

Big Dale

[No_1]

44 Specials are just like lead boolits. Folks don't realize the potential until they realize the potential. :)