Powders for 300 Blackout in Bolt Action

[walkswithsticks]

My eyes are bloodshot from reading forums and searching the internet, and I still have no good loading data for the 300 Blackout in Bolt Action Rifles.

I will be shooting a Remington XR-100 with a 27" Bartlein barrel with a 1:8 twist. I have some Remington 221 Fireball brass coming to fire form. I may pick up some LC 5.56 reformed brass later for comparison.

I have Lee molds in 120 gr. and 170 gr. from other projects. I am looking for a mold in the 200 to 250 gr. range, but you guys know my chances there.

Everything that I have found was either for J-word or if it was data for cast, it was for AR platform rifles.

Anyone out there shooting the 300 Blackout in an old fashioned Bolt Action Rifle or know where I can find data? I really need help with powder selection and minimum/maximum loads.

Thanks,
Bill

[felix]

Your post has me really puzzled. You have enough knowledge, or the ability to obtain same, to acquire a Bartlein barrel, and most especially a barrel having an 8 twist. The objective for a barrel like this is to make for an extremely quiet round and, again most especially, to support a silencer. Bartlein is the premier BR barrel maker today. ... felix

[DeanWinchester]

I have a savage 110 I built. I went with a 10 twist. These super fast twists are kinda whizz bang gimmicky to me. Mine will stabilize a 85g tokarev bullet and group just as well with a 235g cast. I have yet to feed mine anything and not group very well.

A for powders, I've tried lots of stuff. RX7, bullseye, AA#5, Universal, Unique, Lil'gun, H110, SMP842 and a couple others I can't remember off the top of my head. About the lightest load I've tried is 4.0g of Bullseye under a Lee 100g .311 boolit. I'd say the hottest thing I've tried was some Sierra soft points. I used Lil'gun but won't post that data. Needless to say, there's no more room in the case. Certainly NOT safe for just any gun. I've been tempted to get some AA#9 or #7 and try that out. I much prefer the savage to an AR. I'd literally have to fill the case with bullseye or something to get in trouble. Such a little case in such large action gives a big safety net for trying things out of the box. It's certainly no excuse for doing something foolish but it let's play around a good bit.

[TCTex]

Does this help??


63739

[TCTex]

I have the data for the heavier bullets, but it is currently not with me...


Duane

[Springfield]

Forgive what might be a newbie type question, but why can't AR loaded ammo be run through a bolt gun?

[timspawn]

I am shooting an AR and an H&R single shot. Lil Gun is great in both. It should do the same in your bolt gun. A1680 is also a very popular choice.

[walkswithsticks]

Thanks all for the input, but let me be a little more specific. I want to shoot boolits on the heavy end in subsonic velocities. I have AA1680, AA5744, and IMR4227; which all have gotten exposure in the forums. I have too many other powders on hand, but these seem to be likely candidates. Anyone got any specific charge weights for the Lee 120 and 170 grain boolit and. for when I can locate one, a 200 gr.

Felix- I can't take any credit here. Some of my shooting buddies are very dedicated BR students. My experience comes mostly in single action revolver and straight wall cases in Rollers, Hi Walls, and Falling Block. I am learning BPCR, and I am getting my feet wet in PP.

This whole Blackout project really intrigues me, but information on shooting subsonic with cast is pretty hard
to come by.

Bill

[TCTex]

Bill, I have published data for sub's, but it will be this weekend before I can get to it...

[hicard]

Bill. One load I have for the 311299 205 gr bullet is 16.7 grs of 1680 at 1605 fps at 2.196 oal, 41993 psi and 1172 fpe out of a 16.5" barrel. Try 19 grs of 1680 for the 120 gr (1900 fps) and 18 grs for the 140 gr (1845 fps).

[felix]

Because you have a bolt gun, Bill, you are in fat city to play subsonic. Your powder choices will be even slower and much more variable in choice than what you have shown for 200 grainers and on up. Always fill the case up with powder for this subsonic application for two reasons: 1) to minimize any SEE condition to about zero chance; 2) to gain the most consistency in the boolits' acceleration curve. As you prolly know, long barrels play havoc with vibration control making it difficult (and mucho' fun) to find the correct acceleration curve for both low noise and point of impact accuracy. Change powders back and forth until the proper balance is found. Don't forget, each powder has a lot number which makes each one different enough in this situation to affect the desired objective: finding the accuracy control point in terms of velocity and accuracy. Start the game with a bunch of powders slower than 4227 and your heavy boolit of choice. ... felix

Make darn sure you use your most accurate tools to measure case expansion at the case head after each shot. Any variance there will indicate bad cases or load(s) too hot for the gun/case combo. We are talking full-case powder loads here. Final load would be something less than 0.0005 case expansion on each shot within the group. ... felix

[garym1a2]

Low velocity in a bolt gun with heavies. I bet Bullseye would work very well.
It tends to work in most other rifles for low velocity.

[Pmc]

I have been shooting a 300/221 in a bolt gun for almost a decade. A couple of things.
1. You don't need 27" of barrel
2. I have had success with H110 and the NOE 247 Boolit
Killed this buck last season
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/pmcal/Hunting/IMAG0034.jpg

3. I am beginning testing with the Lee 230 5R sold by midway. PM me your address and I'll send you some to try along with some NOE's I got from another caster.

[walkswithsticks]

felix - Thanks for the advice. I will make a note of that. In straight wall cases, I have never worried about filling the case. Is that something inherent to all bottle neck cases with cast or just the 300 Blackout and similar cases?

Springfield - You can use an AR load in a bolt action rifle, but it probably will not be the rifle's most accurate load/boolit combo. You have variables such as barrel length affecting burn rate, gas siphoning off to operate the bolt, overall length for each chamber, etc. All of these variables have an effect on velocity and accuracy. For best accuracy, you need to develop a load for each rifle.

TCTex - I will look forward to seeing your info.

I did get lucky today. Midsouth Shooters Supply had a Lyman 311284 210 gr in stock, so I ordered it. As soon as Midway, Midsouth, and Graf ship, I will get started. Remember the "old days" when we could place an order with just one supplier?

One other thing. I know there are several subscription sites out there compiling load data. Anyone have experience with one that is good with cast boolit loads. Every time I get a new rifle or want to change boolits, it is tough sometimes to find load data.

Thanks,
Bill

[Bulldogger]

I have some 160gr loads with H110 to try, but haven't yet so I will refrain from posting, but I did follow the guidance on the Hodgdon's calculator, with some interpolation to match my boolit and bullet weights.
Blackout is a variant/clone of the .300 Whisper, there is a bit more load data out there for Whisper. I researched that too when considering loads, always with the understanding of loading 10-20% below stated max and working up.
As was already stated, a bolt is easier to load for. We don't have to worry about cycling and such.

Please post your results, I'm curious myself.

Bulldogger

[felix]

Bill, if you keep friends with your BR buddies, you will have enough confidence in time to build your own loads, and from scratch too. It does take a memory bank of how different powders perform , in what case capacities, and with various bore expansions. This takes time to adsorb and you should go slowly and positively in comprehension.

Filling the case is the majority rule for the best/safest loads across the board. Generally, start with the slowest and work to the fast applicable powder for the "load". With your 221 case capacity, and bore expansion of a .308 with heavy boolit, you will be entirely safe with pressure starting with H380 and working up the speed ladder to 4198-small-cut inclusive. Do NOT compress SMOKELESS powders is another general purpose rule. The converse for true Black Powder. ... felix

[Jailer]

27 inches is a lot of barrel for this round.

[Moonie]

I have been shooting a 300/221 in a bolt gun for almost a decade. A couple of things.
1. You don't need 27" of barrel
2. I have had success with H110 and the NOE 247 Boolit
Killed this buck last season
<image snipped>

3. I am beginning testing with the Lee 230 5R sold by midway. PM me your address and I'll send you some to try along with some NOE's I got from another caster.

I'd be interested in that load, how much H110 do you load with the 247?

[Pmc]

8.8 gr of H110 produced right at 1040 fps.

[Jupiter7]

8.8 gr of H110 produced right at 1040 fps.

Looks like about 10% below jacketed for 230gr. This is where I started when loading the accurate 310240E(drops 245gr). No chrono but it stayed subsonic in 16" Remington 700sps til I got to 9.2grs with COL of 2.11. I save h110 for supers in an AR now, it's not so easy to find in these trying times. Using unique and a1680 for the heavies.

[Moonie]

Unfortunately subs won't function properly with H110/W296 for me.

[xacex]

8.8 gr of H110 produced right at 1040 fps.

I was told that downloading with H110 is a bad idea, but it looks like it is working for you!

[TCTex]

Just following up…

I have spent several hours searching for that 300 loading data that I have over the last two days to no avail. I apologize for any inconvenience.

Duane

[Billyjt300]

I too am looking and found this today, My Rem700 300Blk with be here this week, I have NOE 312299 202 grn, I plan on trying it with unique and 2400, will let you know how it goes

[Ford SD]

Here is some data
not a bolt gun but how about a 14" Thompson/Center Contender

http://www.lasc.us/RangingShotlongWhisper.htm

[Blammer]

I'd use the AR load data and try from there. Even AR guys have to mess with the load data a bit for better results in the gas guns, who's to say a good gas gun load won't work in a bolt gun?

I think you have a good starting place with the AR load data.

[Jupiter7]

I think if you'll look for the older whisper(pre-blackout) data, you'll find a lot of suitable data. 5grs of unique is my go to for the bolt gun.

[pipehand]

Jupiter7, what boolit and barrel twist are you shooting with the 5 grains of Unique? Tried it in a new to me boltgun with a 1:8" twist using the Lee 230-5r boolit, and they shot all over the place with most of the boolits showing very elongated holes in paper. Same boolit and 11 grains of Reloader-7 was very accurate at 25 and 50 yards.

The gun is very new to me, so I have not had but two days this past week to put a scope on it and try it out. I tried 150 and 205 grain gas checked boolits, and got good accuracy with the 11 grains of Rel-7 also.

Most of the data available is AR and jacketed based. I have a pound of Win 296, but no Lil-gun. Am not concerned about gas gun function, and would like to work up some accurate loads with 2400, H-4198, and Rel-7. The gun's threaded 5/8-24, but I haven't started the process for getting a suppressor. Gotta get that ball rolling.

[Jailer]

I think if you'll look for the older whisper(pre-blackout) data, you'll find a lot of suitable data. 5grs of unique is my go to for the bolt gun.

What boolit and what kind of velocity are you getting?

I've found great success with 4.8gr of 231 with the Lee 312-155-2R sized to .310 and tumble lubed and no gas check. They consistently run 1080 FPS. +/- 6 FPS in my savage.

[wlc]

With a bolt gun, or any other that isn't semi auto, you don't have to worry about the gas volume to cycle the action. That gives you many more options than just lil gun and 1680 that most folks use. I have just started with the BLK so am not in a position to give any advise other than what I just did. If you haven't found the 300Blk talk website, here is a link to their reloading section: http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=141 You will have to wade through it to find info relevant to your use, but lots of testing done and loads available. Most for AR's and jacketed, but still a good starting place. If you have quickload, or a friend with it you can do a lot of playing around there to find powders/bullet/boolit combos.

[leadman]

I shoot a Contender 18" barrel with the Lyman 314299 sized .310". I am using WC680 (surplus) with 11.5grs. This is right at the edge of sub-sonic. Accurate 1680 is very similar so start a little low and work up.
Lyman 311299 is the smaller diameter version like the 314299.
I haven't shot the Lee 200gr 30 caliber in my Whisper yet but in my 1903a3 sporter it makes moa most of the time. I would think it would do very well in the 300 BO.
I have not had very good luck with the Lee 230gr 5R 30 caliber boolit. Best so far is in my Savage 110 at about 1,900 fps for around 2" at 100 yards.

[Jupiter7]

What boolit and what kind of velocity are you getting?

I've found great success with 4.8gr of 231 with the Lee 312-155-2R sized to .310 and tumble lubed and no gas check. They consistently run 1080 FPS. +/- 6 FPS in my savage.

Sorry didn't see this question til today. Im shooting Accurate 31-240e in Remington 700 sps tactical with 1/7 twist also 5r rifling. I believe the original data I found was 5.5grs of unique with 220smk. I started at 5gr and never tried any different. I usually don't shoot subs in a bolt gun.