Shooting round balls. Range report.

[littlejack]

Hey fellas:
I would be what you call a newby in this catagory. I loaded up some .690 round balls yesterday morning to try out in my Remington 870. It has a Hastings rifled barrel, and a Burris 2 x 7 scope. Range was 50 yards.
I will say that I have been lurking on this site for a while, storing data from all you RB shooters. I do appreciate the sharing of your expierienced knowledge.
I only had 10 balls (lets keep it clean) so I only fired two groups. The shotgun is sighted for the Lyman 525 grain Sabot Slug at 50 yards.
I use Remington 2 3/4" cases.
WAA12 White wads with two .050 card wads under the ball, for support and proper height.
Powder was Herco, and 30 grains.
Crimp was a 8 point fold.

First group of 5, with the wads trimmed to ball mid waist. 4.75" center to center, no holes touching.

Second group of 5, with full length wads. 4 shots touching 1.200 centers, with one flier out to 3.200".
This group shot 1.5" high, and 1.5" left of where the gun was sighted in for the slug loads. Not too bad.

I am attributing the flier to that atrocious factory trigger pull. I may do some trigger work on it, or look into a replacement trigger.
On the full length wads, one petal was missing on the wads. On the trimmed wads, most of the petals were intact.
I do have some .678 round balls, that I am going to load up with the same componants, and give the smaller balls a try. I am going to go to the local black powder shop, and get some other different size balls to try.
I will find the best grouping balls, and then buy myself a mould.
When loaded, there was a definate bulge around the perimeter of the case, where the waist of the .690 ball was. The shells did chamber easily though, with no signs of being oversize. With a smaller ball, this would diminish per size of the ball.
Any comments and/or suggestions are appreciated.
Reguards
Jack

[GBertolet]

I think your .690 round ball is a little too tight with the WAA12 white wad. If memory serves me correct the petals are .025 X 2 = .050 + .690 ball diameter = .740 total diameter. I would prefer, if it was me to concentrate on the .678 ball. You can go to a slightly thicker petal wad if needed. I have had good luck using the .735 RB wrapped in plumbers teflon tape in my NEF rifled barrel.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Jack, you are doing well and its good to see you putting in the efforts and I wish you the very best.
Your load of 30 gr Herco should be good for deer or black bear.
Your choices for wad for .678 are:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/678Roundballwadfitjpg.jpg
I like to bring my slug or round ball up by adding a nitro card in wad like:
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/RoundBallsinwad.jpg
The Fed. 12S3 first purple wad I had put two nitro cards in the wad to raise the ball and I prefer to fold crimp my RB!

Life is short and we got to do what ever it takes to make us happy.
Enjoy it while you are at it!

Warmest regards,
Ajay
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
Blazing Sabots, LLC
www.BlazingSabots.com
http://www.facebook.com/BlazingSabots?ref=hl
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Preci...75489969155338

[ihunts2much]

I had very good results with a 690 ball in the AA wad on a load or Green Dot. I cut 2 opposing petals completely off. I am also running a pretty low velocity, published 1080. Im not sure what your velocity is, but Modern rifled shotgun barrels twist too fast to stabilize a roundball properly. Raising velocity exaggerates the problem.

[longbow]

Take a look for TRG3's posts on shooting 0.690" RB in his USH. He is getting good results with the wads he is using.

I am getting good results in smoothbore using 0.662" RB or 0.678" RB in shotcups though they might not be snug enough for rifled gun ~ you need some pretty good grip or the ball may skid and not pick up the rotation. 0.735" round ball in a borrowed rifled Remington 870 gave me some very good groups of around 2" at 50 yards with stout loads of Blue Dot. I figured the rifling twist would be too quick but recovered balls showed crisp rifling marks.

Longbow

[littlejack]

I'm going to try and get to the range this week with some of the .678 balls loaded up. I dropped one in a shot cup, and the fit looked prety good. But, one never knows until it is shot.
Reguards
Jack

[longbow]

If the fit is a bit loose, you might try rolling the balls under a coarse file for a little more grip or use some Mylar or Teflon wrap, or just a wrap or two of paper, or crossed paper strips (I have done that with slugs). I have even cloth patched balls into hulls/wads (like with a muzzleloader) to get good fit. Lots of ways to skin a cat!

It is worth a try and if accuracy is off then try snugging the fit up a bit.

Good luck! Keep us posted.

Longbow

[littlejack]

Good tips Longbow.
Thank you.

[littlejack]

Range update:
I went to the range today with the .678 ball loads. I had just 10 reloads, as that is all of the balls I had. The range was 50 yards, and the shotgun was sandbagged. The first group (5 rounds) went all over the place. I shoot from/with a 2x12 riser, 3 pieces thick, with a bag that has the four compartments setting on top. The bag rests on the bottom two legs, with the forearm of the firearm captured between the top two bags. This is a very stable bench rest. The first group measures 2.25 wide, and 7.25 vertical string.
With group number 2, I decided to rest my hand against the rear of the bag, while holding the forearm of the gun. This five shot group 1.5" wide, and a vertical string of 2.25".
The only reason that I can think of for the enlarged group of the first 5 shots, would be the barrel jumping under the recoil upon firing. With my hand being used with the second group, the forearm was cusioned from bouncing off of the hard sandbag.
Balls fit perfect in the wads, no extra side to side room. Wad were intact after firing, no petals lost.
Both loads were the same:
Remington hulls.
30 grains of Herco.
WAA12 white wad.
Two .045 card wads under the ball.
O.D. of ball and petals, .727.
Slugged groove diameter, .727.
Anyone have any other opinion on why the first group may have been so large?
All opinions appreciated.
Jack

[longbow]

Well, i probably can't be a lot of help since you are shooting rifled gun and I shoot smoothbores, but... take a look at the gas seals on the wads. I find that some gas seals fail at the edges. I like a nice thick gas seal as they seem to work best for me.

Not sure if the solid payload or maybe the round shape of the ball adds to this problem but I always put at least one 1/8, 16 or 20 ga. nitro card wad into the shotcup then add a scoop of COW to provide a nice seat for the ball and to bring it up to decent crimp height. you do not want a bunch of petal sticking out past the ball.

Ahhhh, another thought just hit me. You are shooting 0.678" balls. they may be a bit loose in the shotcups for rifled gun. If the balls are a bit loose they may not be picking up the rifling spin consistently. Try a tighter fitting wad or use a wrap of paper or crossed paper strips to "patch" the ball up a bit. I am guessing that one wrap of regular printer paper or two crossed strips at 90 degrees (so one thickness of paper) will tighten the fit up to similar to 0.690" ball in regular shotcups. It will depend on bore and groove diameter. One fellow posted that his groove diameter was 0.740" which is HUGE! That is like the old English bore guns. The only rifled gun I have shot had 0.727" grooves and 0.717" or so bore IIRC.

Just a couple of thoughts.

Longbow

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Good morning, a lot out there to learn from.

We put nitro cards to good use in our RB or Slug loads but it makes no sense using Two .045 card wads under the ball.
At least give your RB or slug a firm base at launch, use .125 or .135 and better yet a .170 darker nitro card.
Those two .045" nitro cards will not help at all !

Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots