.223/5.56, how slow have you gone?

[brotherdarrell]

I have been working quite a bit with my 223 rem lately, and I have my AR waiting in the wings for this next run of NATO molds. I've been using imr4895 for most of the loads but am down to less than 1/2 lb. and I don't see any more showing up at the LGS anytime soon. So....

How slow, powder wise, have any here gone with the 223 rem. and maintained a fairly decent load?

I have Varget, H380, H414, imr4350, H4350 and H4831-sc. I have a fair amount of pistol powders for the lower velocity stuff and have been working on the 2K+ fps area.

Using the search I have found loads for H4831 in the 223rem & 222 rem posted by a member (possibly former member) whom I believe many here would say is a credible source, but would appreciate any other ideas or experiences with the slower powders.

Adding to the dilemma is the fact that in the last 4 months I have added a 7x57, 30-30 and a 30-06 to the fold, all of which like the same stuff. Having this many new mouths to feed I am trying to spread the food around, so to speak. Sucks, does'nt it?:coffee:

Thanks to all

Darrell

I would just add that the 223 is a Rem 700 w/26" barrel and the AR is a Bushmaster varminter w/24" barrel

[Rocky Raab]

Well, I was able to duplicate the .22 Magnum, .22 WRF, .22 LR and even the .22 Short. With either the RCBS 55 GC or the Lyman 225646 55 GC and TiteGroup powder, the charges and velocities were:

4.5 - 1600
3.5 - 1275
2.5 - 1015
2.0 - 883
1.5 - 654

Other fine loads:

10.0 2400 - 1950
13.0 I4198 - 1855

[brotherdarrell]

Rocky - as usual my lack of communication skills showed up again.

I am interested in slow powders for the higher velocity loads. But.....

I will definitely add your data to my growing list.

Thank you sir.

Darrell

[khmer6]

I think some have used wc860 for a tad over 2000 with a 62gr m855

[jim147]

Varget is my goto powder for .222 and .223. It's at 99 on the Hodgdon chart. I see 4831 at 125. I'm working on some loads now using RL-22. 129 on the burn chart.

Let me know if anyone works up a load with US869 or a BP load.

jim

[uscra112]

Varget. 27.5 grains with the 62 grain mil bullet, 28 grains with a 55 grain softpoint. Both are compressed about 10%.

Anything slower and you'd have to compress it even more, nicht war?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I posted elsewhere many times, I use a Plain Based RanchDog 50gr. TL Boolit pushed with about 4.0 gr. of Red Dot about 1600FPS. fairly accurate.
Jon

[Jim]

I worked up this load for short range recreational shooting. 2.6 grains just barely makes a pop.

63673

[Lloyd Smale]

varget or blc2 is about as slow as i will go in a 223

[runfiverun]

the 4831 will work in the 30-30.
start at 34 grs and come up till you are compressing it or to 37 ish grs.
for your cast 223 loads i'd look at about 23 grs of the 414 in the ar.
and the 380 next.

[badbob454]

1.5 gr of wc820 with a 55 gr mx2 boolit pure lead with some tin @ 2% added shot like a .22 lr, on steroids , hard to measure out though , no idea of velocity

[khmer6]

Only 1.5gr!?????? Sounds very cost effective. I would love to use it in my 10mm and 38 super loads. My distributor only has one source of 820. I haven't seen it for sale in a few years

[Jim]

Only 1.5gr!?????? Sounds very cost effective. I would love to use it in my 10mm and 38 super loads. My distributor only has one source of 820. I haven't seen it for sale in a few years

I tried WC 820 in .45ACP a few years ago. I didn't get complete burn until I got to 100% case density. It likes pressure to burn properly.

The required pressure manifests in a small bottleneck caliber like .223 way before you get to full case density with 820. Actually, you'll get to gross high pressure before then.

I think you'll need close to a full charge to get it to burn right in an auto handgun cartridge.

[khmer6]

I've seen lots of data and reviews on 820 in magnum pistols. Lots of good results. A jug of 820 if I can find some seems to be a whole lot cheaper than any other canister grade by a long shot

[brotherdarrell]

the 4831 will work in the 30-30.
start at 34 grs and come up till you are compressing it or to 37 ish grs.
for your cast 223 loads i'd look at about 23 grs of the 414 in the ar.
and the 380 next.

Do you think the H414 load would need magnum primers or would standard work fine?

Thanks

Darrell

[seagiant]

Hi,
I've been shooting the Mihec 226 NATO mold boolits with 19 grs. of IMR-4895. Functions the action fine but the brass MUST be sized correctly and I use a Dillon case guage to make sure it is!

[runfiverun]

standard should be allright.

[badbob454]

Only 1.5gr!?????? Sounds very cost effective. I would love to use it in my 10mm and 38 super loads. My distributor only has one source of 820. I haven't seen it for sale in a few years
try aa#9 same burn rate

[badbob454]

I've seen lots of data and reviews on 820 in magnum pistols. Lots of good results. A jug of 820 if I can find some seems to be a whole lot cheaper than any other canister grade by a long shot
sorry to say nigh near impossible to find any more , uses aa#9 for loading data , a good replacement

[BD]

The simple answer to the OP is: Varget. It's as slow as I can get to burn efficiently and it will group the 77 grain SMKs well under 1/2 moa for me to 300 yards out of my AR on a calm day.

[Lloyd Smale]

blc2 is about as slow as i go in the .223

[45 2.1]

I have been working quite a bit with my 223 rem lately, and I have my AR waiting in the wings for this next run of NATO molds.

How slow, powder wise, have any here gone with the 223 rem. and maintained a fairly decent load?



Almost any of the surplus slow powders will serve well if you use a booster. I have been over 2400 fps with WCC 867 and 2700 fps with 7383 booster'd loads with cast.

[brotherdarrell]

Almost any of the surplus slow powders will serve well if you use a booster. I have been over 2400 fps with WCC 867 and 2700 fps with 7383 booster'd loads with cast.

The slowest powder I have is the i-4831sc. Is it slow enough to use a booster in .223 w/cast?

[HDS]

Almost any of the surplus slow powders will serve well if you use a booster. I have been over 2400 fps with WCC 867 and 2700 fps with 7383 booster'd loads with cast.

Can you explain this whole concept of a booster, are there articles and such I could delve into to learn about it?

[45 2.1]

The slowest powder I have is the i-4831sc. Is it slow enough to use a booster in .223 w/cast?

Yes, but finding the proper booster is a PITA..... as i'm still looking for it myself.


Can you explain this whole concept of a booster, are there articles and such I could delve into to learn about it?

Most people on this site consider use of boosters dangerous. Several people here have taken use of boosters to a high art form. Size and shape of the cartridge as well a boolit weight change the parameters from cartridge to cartridge. With that in mind, here is a safe procedure to try a booster:

1. A booster can be used in any cartridge that has sufficient capacity to use one. There are cartridges that have too small a capacity. There are cartridges with large capacities that would generate too much pressure using them...ie the larger black powder cartridges.

2. Pick a powder that is really slow for the cartridge, one that leaves a lot of powder in the bore and doesn't generate enough pressure to burn well even with full charges.

3. Generally, shotgun powders do not do well for boosters (accuracy problems). The medium to slower burning handgun powders a very fast burning rifle powders seem to do well in this regard with bottle necked rifle cartridges.

4. Start out low by replacing part of the main slow powder charge with booster (2 gr. is low enough to start at) and work up to high levels of booster. This varies with cartridge size. Too much booster will show a sudden blown group. Once you find a powder that works well in the cartridge as a booster, go up until the slower powder is burning well enough to produce as clean burn. Then access what you have. It may take some more or it may not. This depends of the cartridges operating pressure limit.

5. Slow powders can be very finicky about the booster it likes. You get poor results, try another powder.

6. Watch what your doing here, there is little published data.....this isn't a subject for the young and inexperienced. You should know when a load doesn't seem right or it appears too hot..... if you don't understand these things don't try it.