Lets hear from Mas 36 shooters

[Hang Fire]

Give your pros and cons about the rifle.

IMO, the French Mas 36 rifle is a sleeper

The French Mas 1936 7.5x54 was the last bolt action battle rifle put into service by a major power. Because of their appearance and being French, they have received negative reviews and comments, including from people who have never handled or shot one. Due to limited numbers available at the time, the Mas 36 saw little service in WW2, but post war they were used extensively in Vietnam and Algiers.

It was just a short time ago one could buy two Mas 36 rifles for $100.00 but those times are past, see where they are now approaching $300.00 apiece. I looked at, handled, and researched the rifle before buying one last year. As to their looks, IMO form follows function, and it functions very well indeed. When examined, it is apparent considerable engineering went into the design.

The 7.5x54 is almost on par with the 7.62x51 as to power and the cartridge is basically the 6.5x55 Mauser with neck expanded out to 7.5. The 7.5 bore allows for .308” bullets to be used for reloading and the rear aperture battle sight makes for adequate accuracy out to 500 yards. A drawback of the sight is no windage adjustment and having a fixed front sight, necessitating at the armory for rifles to be fitted with different individual custom rear sights to compensate for no horizontal adjustments. If the POA/POI is off, the front sight is soft soldered in a dovetail, so with a little heat, it can be drifted L/R for correction.

[500MAG]

I got a buddy at church that asked today about helping him to get set up to load for his.

[gew98]

While I like the caliber/cartridge... the rifle is a bastard. The lack of a safety along with a real weird angled bolt handle and an absolutely atrocious trigger pull make it one of the least user friendly military rifles ever !. Now the issue sights are excellent...but do not make up for the rest !.


PS , the majority I have handled had rather short buttstocks too !.

[Hang Fire]

IIRC, there was a study done which proved per capita, there were less accidents for the French rifles having no safety than other nation's military rifles with safeties.

The bolt was designed to be used with palm of the hand, I find it very fast operating that way.

As to trigger pull, I find it on mine no worse, and better than some other milsurps.

Short butt stock doesn't bother me, but I am not large framed with long arms.

Takes all of five seconds to completely diassemble the Mas 36 bolt, takes longer than that on some milsurps to just get the bolt out of the receiver.

Good engineering for the bolt.

Mas 36: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwSO80x1v0w

K98 Mauser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A_-FnDhmAc

[DeanWinchester]

They're usually a great buy. They got that going for them. They usually have mint bores and scratched stocks having never been fired and dropped on the ground.

[Hang Fire]

That tired old oft repeated BS is well past it's expiration date.

IIRC, over 100,000 French soldiers died in one month during the Nazi invasion, so those French troopers did fire and then dropped dead to the ground with their weapons. This while the BEF was beating a hasty retreat to Dunkirk, where they dropped and lost their equipment in such a hurry to get across the channel.

[George Tucker]

I bought one, still had the white Flag tied on the end of the barrel.

[Multigunner]

A short butt stock, which many other milsurp rifles also have, can be compensated for by use of a slip on recoil pad. Theres a sturdy black rubber slip on recoil pad that was used when firing rifle grenades, not for firing from the shoulder but rather to protect the butt stock from cracking and provide a slip resistent surface when bracing the butt on pavement or stony ground. It adds about 1 1/2" possibly more to length of pull IIRC.

I've examined a Vietnam war trophy MAS 36 carbine, probably used by Viet Cong. It had a sporter cut fore end that appeared to have been done many years previous to its last capture date.
The front sight looked milspec so it was most likely a carbine barrel rather than a cutdown rifle.
This carbine had an aftermarket thumb safety located below the bolt end cap, the thumb piece moved from side to side to block the sear or trigger.
I read of the commercial sporting versions of the MAS 36 some years later on. Those could be had with the thumb safety, and in a number of sporting cartridge chamberings, or chambered for some obsolete military cartridges. There was also a proprietary wildcat 7mm on a necked down 7.5 case.

Some of the sporters are very handsome and rugged rifles, well suited to hunting in far away climes.

[Argentino]

Give your pros and cons about the rifle.

IMO, the French Mas 36 rifle is a sleeper

The French Mas 1936 7.5x54 was the last bolt action battle rifle put into service by a major power. Because of their appearance and being French, they have received negative reviews and comments, including from people who have never handled or shot one. Due to limited numbers available at the time, the Mas 36 saw little service in WW2, but post war they were used extensively in Vietnam and Algiers.

It was just a short time ago one could buy two Mas 36 rifles for $100.00 but those times are past, see where they are now approaching $300.00 apiece. I looked at, handled, and researched the rifle before buying one last year. As to their looks, IMO form follows function, and it functions very well indeed. When examined, it is apparent considerable engineering went into the design.

The 7.5x54 is almost on par with the 7.62x51 as to power and the cartridge is basically the 6.5x55 Mauser with neck expanded out to 7.5. The 7.5 bore allows for .308” bullets to be used for reloading and the rear aperture battle sight makes for adequate accuracy out to 500 yards. A drawback of the sight is no windage adjustment and having a fixed front sight, necessitating at the armory for rifles to be fitted with different individual custom rear sights to compensate for no horizontal adjustments. If the POA/POI is off, the front sight is soft soldered in a dovetail, so with a little heat, it can be drifted L/R for correction.

I know this is not the main point here but wouldn´t that be the Enfield N4-MkII?

There were also Enfield/Ishapores issued even later than that (60´s), but not by a major power.

Regarding the MAS I ´ve seen a couple of them for sale in my country in excellent condition.

Always thought they should be a good buy since they weren´t expensive but I´ve heard some negative comments about them being not quite good in the accuracy dept.
I cannot tell if this is true or if it was just plain nonsense talking. I would like to know.

[twotoescharlie]

a SKS trigger block safety can be fitted to these rifles. I got a as new refurb several years ago and put one on it, still have it havn't shot it much. also have dies and plenty of boxer brass.

TTC

[ukrifleman]

I bought one, still had the white Flag tied on the end of the barrel.
This sort of comment is un-called for and and just plain insulting to the thousands of troops who perished in France in 1940.
There were several factors that caused the collapse of the French and British forces. One major factor was poor leadership from Generals who learnt their trade in victorian times and were still using WW1 tactics and were unable to cope with the Blitzkrieg tactics of the German forces.
No army had ever faced such tactics before and in the outset had no answer to such things as Stuka dive bombers, which were in fact flying artillery.
The German forces were highly mobile with good radio communications right down squad level and they perfected the art of tank warfare.
Basically the allied forces were out-manoeuvered by a modern, highly mobile force and it took a bloody nose before they were able to react effectively. Remember what Blitzkrieg means, `Lightning War`
All armies suffer defeats and it is usually these set-backs that enables them to learn and eventually prevail over their enemies.
I will leave you with 4 words, Bataan, Corregidor, Cassreine Pass. It has happened to every army.
ukrifleman.

[felix]

Custer's Last Stand. ... felix

[Hang Fire]

I bought one, still had the white Flag tied on the end of the barrel.

See post #6.

[Hang Fire]

I know this is not the main point here but wouldn´t that be the Enfield N4-MkII?

There were also Enfield/Ishapores issued even later than that (60´s), but not by a major power.

The Enfield is a very old design dating back to 1895 when it entered British service, and it was only an improved version of the earlier Lee-Metford black powder rifle, The Mas 36 was an entirely new design at the time.

[Hang Fire]

This sort of comment is un-called for and and just plain insulting to the thousands of troops who perished in France in 1940.
There were several factors that caused the collapse of the French and British forces. One major factor was poor leadership from Generals who learnt their trade in victorian times and were still using WW1 tactics and were unable to cope with the Blitzkrieg tactics of the German forces.
No army had ever faced such tactics before and in the outset had no answer to such things as Stuka dive bombers, which were in fact flying artillery.
The German forces were highly mobile with good radio communications right down squad level and they perfected the art of tank warfare.
Basically the allied forces were out-manoeuvered by a modern, highly mobile force and it took a bloody nose before they were able to react effectively. Remember what Blitzkrieg means, `Lightning War`
All armies suffer defeats and it is usually these set-backs that enables them to learn and eventually prevail over their enemies.
I will leave you with 4 words, Bataan, Corregidor, Cassreine Pass. It has happened to every army.
ukrifleman.

Well stated.

[Hang Fire]

Custer's Last Stand. ... felix

IIRC, Custer's 215 men found themselves cut off and under attack by as many as 3,000 braves. 14 to 1 odds is never a good thing to contend with in battle.

[felix]

HF, hopefully they see the same picture in us from DC. ... felix

[HangFireW8]

No army had ever faced such tactics before and in the outset had no answer to such things as Stuka dive bombers, which were in fact flying artillery.


Well, only the Poles.

Another factor was severe demoralization.

Fun fact: what European country had the largest Army going into WWII?

[EDG]

>>>I will leave you with 4 words, Bataan, Corregidor, Cassreine Pass. It has happened to every army.
I will leave you with 4 words, Bataan, Corregidor, Cassreine Pass. It has happened to every army.<<<

Name a country that did not adequately spend for defense, got involved in treaties to defend other countries, sold one country down the drain claiming peace in our time and then evacuated 330,000 men.

[Hang Fire]

Well, only the Poles.

Another factor was severe demoralization.

Fun fact: what European country had the largest Army going into WWII?


The Soviet Union.

And yes, the western part of Russia is in Europe, and also where the vast majority of the population is.

[390ish]

It really is such a great round. I shoot it in a 49/56. Like a 300 savage, but with a neck.

[gew98]

Every Mas36 I have owned - which included one excellent and one dogged out vietnam bringback and a flat mint June 1940 dated specimen exhibited very sloppy & HARD triggers !. The "uber" long pull and the let off made accurate shooting problematic at best. The standard short buttstocks just compounded the problem. The Mas36 simply is a unique study of functional failure at best.

[30CAL-TEXAN]

Not to detract from the political discussion but..... I have a MAS 36 and I think it is pretty cool. I have not had the chance to do much cast work with it yet but I have slung a few down the tube.

Pros:

cheap (at the time anyway)

rugged as could be

.308 diameter, same as most of my other milsurps

Very interesting design (pretty neat to some, pretty ugly to others)

And, since I'm a southpaw, I have a different handle (pun intended) on the funny forward bent bolt - I like it! It it is just far enough forward for me to reach it with my left thumb and it does make for an interesting palm-bolt action.

Cons:

very rough wood - I worked on mine and it is very smooth now but man was it rough before and I have yet to see another smooth one.

7.5 French caliber, not exactly hard to find but it is a little oddball. I had to get a custom Lee FCD for it and there is no such thing as cheap brass. There are quite a few out there in 308 though.

Short stock, I am a big guy so it is pretty short for me but I will probably pick up a rubber but pad if I ever decide to start shooting it a bunch.

That's about it. It is a neat little rifle and an interesting addition to the collection.

[Charley]

Interesting rifle. Cheap when I bought mine, was almost mint. Trigger isn't the greatest, but a shooter should be able to adapt to his equipment. Length of pull is a bit short for me, but see the note above about the trigger! Case is easy to form from the 6.5x55. What's not to like?

[ukrifleman]

63908I agree about the short butt stock and heavy trigger pull, both easy fixes.
The MAS rubber slip-on butt pad come in 2 sizes, 20mm and 30mm thick, Numrich had them in stock a while ago.
The trigger pull is also an easy fix, My MAS 36 had an 8 1/2lb trigger pull when I first had it.
Replace the firing pin spring with a cut down M1 carbine spring, I got my trigger pull down to a sweet 5lb with this method.
Just make sure that you cut the spring way longer than the original and take it down a coil at a time until you get it where you want it.
I settled for a 5lb pull to make sure that the primer strike was heavy enough. Go too low and you will end up with light strikes.

My cut down spring suits MY rifle, don't assume this length will suit others.
The longer spring is the cut down M1, note how much lighter it is than the original.
ukrifleman.

[Multigunner]

Nice to see that some have recognized the potential of these rifles and are willing to put some thought and a little work into improving them.

[ukrifleman]

Nice to see that some have recognized the potential of these rifles and are willing to put some thought and a little work into improving them.

My rifle will hold 2 MOA at 600 yards when I do my part.
ukrifleman.

[HangFireW8]

The Soviet Union.

And yes, the western part of Russia is in Europe, and also where the vast majority of the population is.

Chuckle... OK... qualifying question... name the Western European power having the largest standing army at the beginning of WWII?

[Hang Fire]

Chuckle... OK... qualifying question... name the Western European power having the largest standing army at the beginning of WWII?

France.

[Four Fingers of Death]

This sort of comment is un-called for and and just plain insulting to the thousands of troops who perished in France in 1940.
There were several factors that caused the collapse of the French and British forces. One major factor was poor leadership from Generals who learnt their trade in victorian times and were still using WW1 tactics and were unable to cope with the Blitzkrieg tactics of the German forces.
No army had ever faced such tactics before and in the outset had no answer to such things as Stuka dive bombers, which were in fact flying artillery.
The German forces were highly mobile with good radio communications right down squad level and they perfected the art of tank warfare.
Basically the allied forces were out-manoeuvered by a modern, highly mobile force and it took a bloody nose before they were able to react effectively. Remember what Blitzkrieg means, `Lightning War`
All armies suffer defeats and it is usually these set-backs that enables them to learn and eventually prevail over their enemies.
I will leave you with 4 words, Bataan, Corregidor, Cassreine Pass. It has happened to every army.
ukrifleman.

Read 'A thousand shall fall' by Hans Habe. He was an intellectual/scholar who was a very noisy anti Nazi and was very high upon their hit list when the Germans attacked France. We went into hiding in the French Army and fought as an infantryman. He reports that the standard of equipment was appaling, (his rifle would only function as an inaccurate single shot) and he felt the main reason for their defeat was that the generals were actually more pro German than pro allies. It was a shambles and any fault that could be levelled would have been levelled at the leadership, but the Germans were overwhelming everything and any body in their paths at that stage.

My MAS36 is a fine rifle and the weird bolt is lightning fast when 'palmed.' It is a well thought out, accurate but typicall ugly French rifle. There were three rear sight inserts I have been told, with the aperture placed in different positions, one centrally drilled and the other two with the peep offset to either side.

[Andrew Mason]

i had an oportunity to buy one of these about 8 months ago, i dont know why i didnt do it,
as i was buying many, of many military surplus rifles, its not like i was short on $$$
either.

i have read once somewhere that they are great for 45-70gvt conversions

[Old Iron Sights]

Glad to see this thread. I've been getting more interested in the MAS lately. Kinda just dismissed them before. 91/30's were cheap, Springfields too high, K98's were the holy grail, etc... Always thought NoI MKIII's were ugly until I bought one and fell in love with it. If it has some history and I can make a great shooter out of it, I'm in.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I don't shoot long range full bore/Palma style matches much, I usd to shoot them a lot 25-30 years ago, but I went to the local range when I was working in the north of the state in early 2006 and had just got the MAS36. They were shooting the 300yard series that day and without a jacket or sling, I flopped down and shot a pretty credible score. I wasn't the best shot of the day, but there were some ten or twelve shooters there and they all shot it regularly. I came in about 9th and after I was half way through the first 12 shots they shut up. They were all shooting single shot target rifles. The MAS36 is an ugly rifle and easily dismissed, but in the 40s it would have been a machine! A lot of Foriegn Legionairres and North Vietnamese soldiers used these very effectively.

[Eddie1971]

I got to resurrect this one. I just got 2 sweet MAS36's one just unwrapped from mummy wrap and the other still in. Had 2 of these years ago and I loved them. Got rid of them like a clown when PPU ammo was embargoed by the original sleazebag Clinton during the Balkan Wars and my reloading skills were not as good as today plus dies were non existent then in 7.5x54. Always kicked myself after for that move. Can't wait to take these underrated rifles out and try out with cast boolit reloads! Anybody else shooting these?

[iron brigade]

I have one. It is very accurate with 16 grains of 2400 and the old Lyman 334 pointed boolit. Mine shoots dead on inline with the bullseye but my brother who also has one his shoots about 6" left.

I had gone to a gun show looking for a Swiss k31and there it was for $485. Couldn't pass it up and bought a k31 from Simpson's. Great outfit btw.

[iron brigade]

292793292793
Here's a group with the above load. This is before I adjusted the sight
Oops double pic

[Gunor]

I am pulling down old and nasty Syrian ammo now for my loads...old FNP (?) brass...

[n.h.schmidt]

I have one.A 1961 rebuild mummy. It had the typical loose fore end .Easily corrected with some shims under the hook.Made cases out of 30-06. I used tape around the web area to even out the bulge . No problem they all worked and have stood up to several reloads.I kept the pressure mild though Even 6.5x55 cases will bulge in this rifle. I like mine I did replace the rear sight insert to correct some windage .Back then you could still get them.