Paper patch a 44 mag?

[Charlie Horse]

I have a 10" Contender that I hunt deer with. I use the Lyman 429421 Keith style SWC. It shoots very well from my gun when cast hard. Not so good when soft.
I would like to try some dead soft PP boolits from this gun. Has anyone ever tried anything like this? At one time I cast up some pure lead 429421 boolits and patched them, then I ran them through my .431" sizer. I was sizing them quite a bit and the patch kept coming off. I think I need a smaller slug.
Any suggestions?

[jim4065]

I feel really stupid asking this - but, did you try sizing them before applying the paper patch? I know that I'm missing something - please forgive.

[Marine Sgt 2111]

Take the preferred diameter of the boolit that you wish to use, subtract the thickness of the cotton bond paper that you are going to use x 4 (as you have to wrap the paper around the boolit twice) and that is the diameter of the slug that you must use.

After I wrap the slugs for my Sharps I let them dry over night, snip the twisted tails off of them, spray them with silicon lube and size them in my luber and sizer like I do grease grooved boolits.

My 2 bits worth....:Fire:

[Charlie Horse]

I feel really stupid asking this - but, did you try sizing them before applying the paper patch? I know that I'm missing something - please forgive.

I know what you are thinking. I read about someone doing it this way and thought I would give it a try. Yes, it was hard to push the bullet through the sizer. I used a Lee push thru sizer.
I actually did get a few to stay together and they seemed to work OK but I had many rejects so I quit.

It seems, to do this properly, one would have to buy a mold of approximately .420" diameter. I have never seen such a thing for sale anywhere. I was just wondering if anyone paper patched 44 mags and if so, what they used.

[45nut]

Sounds like a .416 is in order.

[longbow]

sknhgy:

I have paper patched .44 mag for my 1894 Marlin with pretty good success.

I made a cylindrical push out mould at 0.421" and wrap to get 0.432" to 0.434" and get good groups with that. My groove diameter is 0.4315" and microgroove.

The mould is easy to make if you have a lathe. You can drill some round bar a little undersize then bore to suit or make a "D" bit and ream to size with that. No need for a split mould for smooth sided boolits! I use 1 1/2" dia. round bar so I have room to drill and tap for a sprue plate.

Longbow

[Charlie Horse]

sknhgy:

I have paper patched .44 mag for my 1894 Marlin with pretty good success.

I made a cylindrical push out mould at 0.421" and wrap to get 0.432" to 0.434" and get good groups with that. My groove diameter is 0.4315" and microgroove.

The mould is easy to make if you have a lathe. You can drill some round bar a little undersize then bore to suit or make a "D" bit and ream to size with that. No need for a split mould for smooth sided boolits! I use 1 1/2" dia. round bar so I have room to drill and tap for a sprue plate.

Longbow

Thanks Longbow. I've got an idea of how you made that mold, but do you have any other infromation ?

[longbow]

sknhgy:

I will try to take some decent pictures but I don't have any drawings - just built it.

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook (I have the third edition) shows an Ideal Cylindrical Adjustable Mould on page 38. Mine is a little different and a little simpler buit same idea. After I made my first one about 35 years ago I figured I had invented something pretty good - then I saw that Lyman beat me to it by about 100 years!!!

I just bore or ream the right sized hole in a piece of 1 1/2" round bar, make a sliding nose "punch" to push the boolit out, sprue plate like a normal split mould and a simple screw on handle.

I just finished casting up a bunch of .303's (.303" nose x .313" body) in the same type of mould then I groove kinda like knurling to bring them up to size and provide grease grooves. I found the grooving of the smooth sided boolit for paper patching seems to help groups too - at least in the .303, I haven't tried it in the .44 yet.

I'll try to post some mould pictures later this week. You can see the groove in Special Projects. Look for Grumpy One's post on Modfying "J" bullets.

Longbow

[longbow]

sknghy:

Here are the pictures I promised. I hope they clear things up a bit.

This particular "mould" is actually a mould holder. I bored a piece of 1 1/2" round bar (a mould that was too much oversize) to take a piece of 3/4" round bar that is actually the current mould.

The 1 1/2" round bar has an adjuster in the bottom to level the "mould" with the top face, obviously has the sprue plate attached and handle attached. The 3/4" mould slides in, is adjusted level then locked in place with the handle.

The cast boolit gets sprue cut just like usual but after the sprue plate is swung open then the threaded bar in the bottom (yes it is a little crude) is pushed to move the nose punch up the mould to eject the smooth sided boolit.

This one is .303" which I drilled undersize in my little lathe then reamed with a .301" (N) reamer I bought to make 30 cal. paper patched boolits, then reamed with the "D" reamer which was more or less modelled after the Lyman 314299 but no grease grooves. The nose punch is reamed with the nose of the "D" reamer then O.D. turned to a hair under 0.301" for slide fit. The .44 I drill undersize the use a boring bar to bring it to final diameter but I also made a .44 "D" reamer too - either/or.

The smooth sided air cooled wheelweights/range scrap in this case have been grooved with my groove roller then oven heat treated. Normally I paper patch smooth sided boolits for the .44 mag. with good success but have found grooving a 0.301" boolit before patching works better in the .303 Brit I am using.

I took it all apart so you can see the guts too and have shown 2 boolits - one .44 and one .303. Neither of these is actually paper patch size but the only difference is a few thou in diameter. 30 cal I patch up from 0.301" to 0.315" and .44 mag I paper patch from o.421" to 0.434" which works for me. I don't currently have any PP .44's cast but they look the same as the sample just no grooves and 0.013" smaller diameter. These two are both cast and grooved to shoot lubed (.44 has been lubed with Lee LA).

Different nose shapes are easy to make (I have 4 or 5 different .44 nose punches for round nose, truncated cone, and wadcutter in various lengths and meplat sizes). Also adjustable weight is easy too by using a spacer to set the nose punch depth in the mould. My .44 mould will cast as light as you want up to about 320 gr. just by changing the spacer.

If you have any questions let me know.

Longbow
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[dnepr]

Longbow I like your mold Ihave built something similar but the insert that is the actual mold is aluminum and has a higher expansion rate than steel. this allows the solidified boolits to slide out . I want to try brass sometime as it also has a high expansion rate and should work. by changing inserts I should be able to different calibers of paper patched bullets. The first one I tried making like this was for my .250 savage . I was curious if the idea would work and I happened to have a .250 reamer in the shop. I haven't got around to loading them yet but they are patched and ready to go. I drilled the sprue plate with a center drill and it seems to work excellent. If I don't scrounge up some more aluminum roundstock I may try a pushout mold like yours, steel round is so much easier to scrounge.

[quasi]

nice work Longbow. Writer Ross Siefried has a mold design somewhat similar.

[32ideal]

longbow the attachments in this post do not open for me, can you renew or post them again I'd sure like to see them.
32ideal


sknghy:

Here are the pictures I promised. I hope they clear things up a bit.

This particular "mould" is actually a mould holder. I bored a piece of 1 1/2" round bar (a mould that was too much oversize) to take a piece of 3/4" round bar that is actually the current mould.

The 1 1/2" round bar has an adjuster in the bottom to level the "mould" with the top face, obviously has the sprue plate attached and handle attached. The 3/4" mould slides in, is adjusted level then locked in place with the handle.

The cast boolit gets sprue cut just like usual but after the sprue plate is swung open then the threaded bar in the bottom (yes it is a little crude) is pushed to move the nose punch up the mould to eject the smooth sided boolit.

This one is .303" which I drilled undersize in my little lathe then reamed with a .301" (N) reamer I bought to make 30 cal. paper patched boolits, then reamed with the "D" reamer which was more or less modelled after the Lyman 314299 but no grease grooves. The nose punch is reamed with the nose of the "D" reamer then O.D. turned to a hair under 0.301" for slide fit. The .44 I drill undersize the use a boring bar to bring it to final diameter but I also made a .44 "D" reamer too - either/or.

The smooth sided air cooled wheelweights/range scrap in this case have been grooved with my groove roller then oven heat treated. Normally I paper patch smooth sided boolits for the .44 mag. with good success but have found grooving a 0.301" boolit before patching works better in the .303 Brit I am using.

I took it all apart so you can see the guts too and have shown 2 boolits - one .44 and one .303. Neither of these is actually paper patch size but the only difference is a few thou in diameter. 30 cal I patch up from 0.301" to 0.315" and .44 mag I paper patch from o.421" to 0.434" which works for me. I don't currently have any PP .44's cast but they look the same as the sample just no grooves and 0.013" smaller diameter. These two are both cast and grooved to shoot lubed (.44 has been lubed with Lee LA).

Different nose shapes are easy to make (I have 4 or 5 different .44 nose punches for round nose, truncated cone, and wadcutter in various lengths and meplat sizes). Also adjustable weight is easy too by using a spacer to set the nose punch depth in the mould. My .44 mould will cast as light as you want up to about 320 gr. just by changing the spacer.

If you have any questions let me know.

Longbow
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[longbow]

32ideal:

I had too many photos posted so deleted them to make room.

If you PM me with your e-mail I will send some photos and info.

Longbow

[HollowPoint]

I started paper patching my 44 round nose bullets for the very same reason you've listed. It took a bit of fiddling around to get them so they work repeatedly.

I have lots more stick-on wheel weights than I do clip-on wheel weights so I thought I'd save my clip-on's for my bolt-actions and use these stick-on's for my 44.

With the nearly dead-soft stick-on wheel weights I was getting some lead residue at first but, once I got the size correct everything sort of came together. It wasn't your typical leading; it was more like lead dust in the bore.

I size my bullets down in two different steps using some home-made push through sizers. Wrapping them twice with my chosen paper brings them to the correct size so I don't have to size them again and take the chance of peeling off my paper in the process.

To get them to cycle in my gun I have to use a tapper-crimp die to put a light crimp on the mouth of my cases.

I shoot them out of my model 92 Puma lever gun. I've been working on some scope mounts so I can mount a pistol scope in order to work up some good paper patch loads. They should be done tomorrow; unless I have to work.

I could do it without the scope but I can't shoot as accurately with the tang mounted peep-sight I'm using now.

I've been shooting what many would consider "light-loads" made from these paper patched soft stick-on wheel weights. 9 grains of Unique combined with soft lead bullets really give me alot of expansion and penetration.

Accuracy-wise they shoot OK but, I think it can do better. Hence the scope-sighted load work up.

HollowPoint