Caliber .375 on a 33 Winchester case.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Was sitting at a doctors office (UGH ! ) waiting on the doctor naturally when the brain began evailuating the 33 Winchester. Have one and I was thinking about other possibilities. Fatter boolits always have a better Thwap on target.
Why not a caliber .375 ? Considered the caliber .358 but that really is a baby step up. But why not a .375 or even a .412 ? The case could easily seat one of those calibers and have lots of powder space to boot. Stay with the old long neck as smokeless will quickly top out the 86 action.
I have read some on the .375 Ack Improved, heard about the .416 AI but was thinking about my 86 Winchester as a platform for a fatter boolit so thus the 33 Win cartridge.
Have you heard anything or read about one or the other ? Would probably prefer the caliber .412 as i have lots of molds and do like that bore.
Mike in Peru

[fouronesix]

It'd work fine. But as hard as 33 Win brass is to come by- why? Isn't the 33 Win based on or closely related to the 45-70. Seems like a 375/45-70 wildcat of some variety would be a more direct path :)

[northmn]

It'd work fine. But as hard as 33 Win brass is to come by- why? Isn't the 33 Win based on or closely related to the 45-70. Seems like a 375/45-70 wildcat of some variety would be a more direct path :)
Kind of thinking the same thing. The 375/45-70 wildcat is called a 38-56. Already been done and not popular. 33 Winchester is a good cartridge for its time and why not leave the 86 in original condition?

DP

[6pt-sika]

The 375/45-40 wildcat is called a 38-56.

That is my thinking as well !

Back when I had my old original Marlin 1895's I had them in 33 WCF , 38-56 and 40-65 . They all did nicely for me with cast bullets . And to be honest I liked the 38-56 the best but that my be partly because that rifle was in the best shape of the 4 old pre 1916 1895's that I owned .

[onceabull]

If you are determined to alter that rifle,you might also consider the 38/72 or 40/72... Onceabull

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Now the 40/72 would be a winner.
But as I already make my own 33 Win Brass from 45/70 I was pondering doing a fatter caliber.
Mike in Peru

[fouronesix]

OK! Now that explains it. No problem then with your idea and no loss of 33 Win brass :)

I think that the reason Winchester designed the 33 and for that matter the 348 with such a body taper was to maximize the ease of extraction in the lever gun especially with the higher pressure smokeless rounds like the 33 and 348.

I think it'd be very possible to design a dandy 375/45-70 wildcat that would still have enough taper for ease of de-chambering in a lever gun. Probably has been done in many forms. I'd only do it using an M1886 or M71 project gun who's bore was toast. One thing for sure would be to design around a long enough neck to provide maximum flexibility for bullet weights and profiles.

[TCLouis]

An 86 in 33 Winchester is almost worthless.
I would be willing to pay shipping if you want to rid yourself of something like that with little use to a gun owner.

[Don McDowell]

It's already been done, they called it the 38-56.

[fouronesix]

It's already been done, they called it the 38-56.

Already been posted in #3---

"Kind of thinking the same thing. The 375/45-70 wildcat is called a 38-56. Already been done and not popular. 33 Winchester is a good cartridge for its time and why not leave the 86 in original condition?"

[sharpshooter3040]

I have both 38-72 and 40-72 in original 1895 Winchesters. 38-72 will drive tacks at 100 yards. I built one on a salvaged 1895 Winchester action as well with an extra long barrel and express sights. very pleased with the results. Don't have to worry about about flat nosed bullets either if I so choose.


If you are determined to alter that rifle,you might also consider the 38/72 or 40/72... Onceabull

[Don McDowell]

Already been posted in #3---

"Kind of thinking the same thing. The 375/45-70 wildcat is called a 38-56. Already been done and not popular. 33 Winchester is a good cartridge for its time and why not leave the 86 in original condition?"

Well actually the 38-56 was not a wildcat it was a standard chambering offered by Winchester in the 86 , and marlin even offered it in their 1895.:holysheep
But heaven forbid any two posters in a given thread say even close to the same thing...:drinks:

[Rafe Covington]

A good friend has a 375/348, its an excellent shooter. I had a 416/348 for a while and worked well also.

Rafe

[missionary5155]

Greetings
No I would not rearange my origonal 1886 Light Weight Takedown (1921 vintage) bought here some years ago.
Have a jap 86 with the 26 inch 45/70 barrel that would become the basis for the fun. Figuring 2200 fps is about all the action is good for why not throw a 265 grainer (.412) that fast instead of a 200 grainer (.338).
I like the idea of being able to use easy to come by 45-70 brass and making a bigger hole to boot. Would make a nice in between caliber going from .338 to .412 to .458.
Mike in Peru

[onceabull]

Those 348 Wildcats should be OK,(with judicious reloading) in the 1886 Win. given the # of those rifles that were rebarreled to 348 W. and gave good service thereafter...But a 38/72 or 40/72 still calls to me.... Onceabull

[Don McDowell]

38-72 and 40-72 are both to long to cycle thru an 86 action.

[onceabull]

Will have to settle for a 38/70 or 40/70, I guess... Onceabull

[Bullshop]

I had an original 1886 in 40/82 so they must have chambered that one. I didnt like it because the slow twist only allowed for about a 265gn boolit.

[onceabull]

Dan: The way it was explained to me long ago was that the 40/82 and 45/90 were supposed to be "NEWFANGLED" Express B.P/cartridges ,bigger cases ,lighter bullets, ipso "express". Without hitting the books,I.m guessing that the 38/70 and 40/70 were bottleneck designs like the 38/56. while the 38-72 and 40/72 were straight taper derivitives of the 45/90...I suspect with smokeless, the 38/70 and 40/72 will easily hold all the powder appropriate to the '86 action... fwiw, Onceabull

[Don McDowell]

40-82 is the 45-90 case necked down.
A good one for 45-70 cases might just very well be the 40-70 sharps bn, but the big problem with anything going thru the levergun is keeping the oal short enough to cycle, and that usually means short bullets in the big bores.

[onceabull]

I inherited a partial box of 40/72 cartridges,and was intrigued to see that they were loaded with a 330 gr bullet. When Winnie replaced the 40/72 with the 405 WCF they went lighter (to a 300 grainer),which has been faulted fttt for poor penetration...I have a fine selection of Dan's products in .408-.412 dia. and up to 360 gr. which will be applied to developing loads for my 405 W. Encore once spring breaks out here.(and hopefully to something a tad larger than a forest grouse this coming fall) Onceabull

[Nrut]

Hello Mike in Peru,
If I were to make a .411 for a 86 I would do this..

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6521043/m/3401049761/p/1

Your 86 should handle this round quite nicely and then some as the 86 can handle more jam than a Marlin 95!
Especially if you had a crescent butt plate on your 86.. >grin<

Reamer and dies specs are available..
Plus loading data..

The only downside is 7.62X54R brass is hard to get ahold of right now from what I read due to all the hoarding of re-loading components..

So what did the doctor say?

[Hackleback]

375 JDJ? This is likely too hot for a 86. I thought that the 33 was based off a necked down 45-70? Need to find my books in the garage...

[JFE]

On a 1886 action why not use a 45/90 or 50/110 case as the basis for a wildcat? Starline makes the brass and its not that expensive. The longer brass allows you to fully utilize the length available in the 1886 action.

It also means you can design a case with a long neck which is better suited to cast bullets and still have plenty of capacity.