Lead pot care.

[cs86]

I was wondering what you all do for taking care of your production pot? I'm running the Lee 4-20 and it said to leave about 1 inch of lead in it when you reach the point of quiting. Is this what you normally do or do you try and empty the whole thing periodically. I noticed that some of the crud sticks to the side that doesn't always get scraped off. So when cleaning do you use any types of cleaners, use a steel brush, or any other method?

When I clean my cast iron pot that I've melted wheel weights in, I use an electric drill with a wire brush to clean it and it gets a lot of junk that sticks to the pot. The refined lead that come from the cast iron pot goes into ingot till i'm ready for bullets. Even though its fluxed several times and cleaned to the best of my ability it still has a little junk when it goes into the Lee pot.

[Calamity Jake]

That wire brush works on your casting pot too, I clean my mag 20's once a year with it.

When threw casting for the day I refill my pots, they will melt the lead faster this way for the next time.

[Beesdad]

I have the same pot and scrape the sides and the bottom each time I refill with lead. I never have any deposits left. Found that a pocket SS ruler is just the right tool for the sides and I use a 1 1/2 inch putty knife for the bottom.

After each session I empty the pot by making 1 or 2 one lb. ingots.

[Alley Cat]

I scrape the sides with a wood 1x2 every now and then while casting and I leave the pot between full and 3/4 full when finished casting. My theory is that the pot can't rust when covered by lead. Seems to work for me and I've never had an issue with the bottom valve.

[williamwaco]

With any pot. I never let the metal level drop below about one inch.

When the last dregs of the metal go through the spout they will take all kinds of undesirable stuff with them and leave it in the spout. This will contribute to inclusions in your bullets and to leakage because the valve rod may be held open by the junk.

Any time you do this, be sure to disassemble the pot and clean out all "gunk" from the downspout.

That said, you will find it nearly impossible to clean the spout of the Lee ten pounder because it has a bend in it. I have never found a way to do a good job of it.

[Jtarm]

I scrape the sides with a wood 1x2 every now and then while casting and I leave the pot between full and 3/4 full when finished casting. My theory is that the pot can't rust when covered by lead. Seems to work for me and I've never had an issue with the bottom valve.

I have serious doubts about that method, though no proof. The alloy will contract as it hardens and leave a tiny gap around the sides. It may not even be visible, but neither is water vapor, which can find it's way into just about anything. What's worse, once the moisture gets in, it's trapped and won't evaporate.

[MikeS]

When I'm done with a casting session I refill the pot a couple of minutes after I've shut it off. The reason I wait to refill it after I've turned it off is so the added cold ingots will cause the lead in the pot to freeze. I cast in my garage, and don't like leaving a pot of molten lead unsupervised, so this is a way I can finish up and not have to sit around and wait for the pot to solidify on it's own. I've told my pot not to leak many times, but I do this just in case it doesn't listen!

[cbrick]

Even though its fluxed several times and cleaned to the best of my ability it still has a little junk when it goes into the Lee pot.

I'm curuous what your using for flux and how your going about fluxing, properly fluxed several times your alloy should be fairly clean. If your casting pot is getting build up on the sides of the pot use the same wire brush & drill to clean it & make sure you get all the dust out when finished.

Rick

[WHITETAIL]

I never let my Lyman 20lb pot get
much ferther down than one inch from the top.
And it is full when I finish.
And yes it gets cleaned once a year.:)

[44man]

I change alloys a lot and use gloves to pick the pot up by the base and pour into ingot molds. There is always some crud in the bottom I dump in the coffee can.
I do nothing else since I ladle cast but I do need another pot. After cool I just write the alloy on a piece of paper and put it on top of the lead. I sure would forget.

[kbstenberg]

At the end of a casting session I have been dumping the last Pound or so like 44 man. I usually scrape the sides and the bottom of the pot with a wire brush. Then dump the remaining lead and dust into an ingot mold. Then re-brush the pot to get anything I missed.
I never thought to clean the spout like Will said. I will have to find something small enough to scrape the sides of the downspout. Kevin

[clintsfolly]

Cleaning your lead pot??? I have a Lyman 61 that I got in 79 and I have Never cleaned it other then opening the spout all the way and dumping 2-3lbs into a into mold and fluxing and scraping the pot with a wood stick. Clint

[detox]

I pour out my lead into ingots then literaly wash my pot out in sink using green scotch brite pad and warm soapy water (being careful not to get electronics wet). Water in pot gets very nasty. I rinse pot until water comes out clean. The next melt will be very clean.

[Case Stuffer]

RCBS Pro Melt around 35 years old and up to around a month ago it had set unused for 30 years. I use to have a class 6 FFL and a sideline custom loading and casting operation. My RCBS has never been ran more that 1/2 to 3/4 down , I always fill to 3/4 to full at the end of a session and only cleaning is scraping the sides with a stick right before adding alloy and while fluxing it after it melts.

It has never leaked even after setting for 30 years and it was left full. Must say it was a pleasent surprise to find that it works just as well as when new. I have cast just 4,000 boolits in the last couple of weeks. It took more time and effort to clean up my 35-40 year old molds than pot maintaiance.

[JWFilips]

Well since I'm new at casting & still having a lot of problems with inclusions I have been dumping & cleaning my pot ) Lee Pro 4-20 bottom pour) after every casting session. I always end up with crud against the sides & bottoms under the lead & I have done everything you guys have been telling me. Just yesterday casting, I stirred & scraped the pot more then I spent casting! With a full pot and what I feel was clean alloy I got about 75 boolits poured clean then it was down hill all the way... this time I even gave up on my wooden stir stick ( used metal spoons instead) and only fluxed with bee's wax ( & did that plus stirred and scraped until I ached) Floated my sprues instead of dropping them back in the pot etc! Just can't get clean boolits with any of the alloys I have here :sad:

[detox]

If aloy is too dirty this will cause bullet not to fill out perfectly, inspect and toss back into pot.

Some alloys just look cleaner. Shoot the bullets you will be fine if they are correct hardness and size.

[Case Stuffer]

still having a lot of problems with inclusions

These inclusions are trash, impurities , voids , wrinkles or what?

As I have posted casting is as much of an art as it is a science. Trying to learn to cast nice boolits with unknown alloy can make a difficult task almost impossible. IMO one should start with a proven alloy and get the basics down and then venture into blending their own alloys from what they have be it COWW / bar solder, Lino etc..

Starting with a clean bottom pour pot and using only clean alloy there should never be any trash on the bottom or on the sides below the lowest level the alloy is alowed to reach. Everyting in the pot is lighter than the alloy thus flows to the top and does not settle to the bottom .

[cs86]

Everyting in the pot is lighter than the alloy thus flows to the top and does not settle to the bottom

I find this odd. When I refine COWW in my cast iron pan, it never fails when I pour the ingots, in the bottom of the pan is a real fine dirt like junk. I flux it several times with candle wax. In the future I will start using wood shavings. I let the last little bit solidify and then clean as much **** off of it for the next WW refining process. Then I use a wire brush and drill to work all the grime off the pan. I'm always surprised at how much junk sticks to the pan that you can't get all with spoon scrapeing.

I believe it isn't easy to get all the junk to make it a 99.9% pure alloy, but probably possible with extra time and effort, and that some will transfer to the bullet pot. This was why I wanted to know what others did for pot care and maintenence. More so with casting WW alloys. I appreciate all the input.

[Cane_man]

nube questions:

1) i should keep my pot at least 1/2 full while casting?

2) when i am finished just dump the remainder of the pot into ingot molds?

3) when empty pot cools, wire brush the sides and bottom?

[cs86]

From other prior posts in this thread it sounds like some let the lead solidify in the pot (ranging from 1/2" to full pot). others pour it all out. Every once in awhile take all out and clean the pot with brush. Others have washed it out (caution: avoid water on electronics). I would think you only need it 1/4 min. full depending on the pot size and cast method (bottom pour or ladle). But I would think a more full pot would help with temperature fluxuations.

[Cane_man]

so you can just leave your pot 1/2 full of lead and let it cool until next time?

[detox]

My new RCBS Pro Melt furnace instructions say to never run pot below two inches from bottom.

My Wheelweight aloy is very dirty. I am getting verygood fill except where impurities are (this causes a small void at dirt partical it seems). It is more difficult for me to cast small bullets with bottom pour pot and dirty lead. I find it lots easier using my cleaner 20/1 lead tin mix.

[454PB]

I've done it both ways. Like 44Man said, I change alloys a lot, so I usually dump the bottom of the pot into an ingot mould using the method he described. If I plan to use the same alloy next time, I leave an inch or so in the bottom.

Leaving some alloy in the pot does reduce melt time, but emptying it does no harm. My oldest Lee pot (I have 3) is going on 40 years old. My pots get "cleaned" about every 2 years, and that is mainly focused on cleaning the metering rod and valve seat.

[popper]

Don't know who started that rumor about everything but lead floats to the top. Doesn't work for me. I dump the pot as I don't know exactly what alloy I will be using next.

[Case Stuffer]

Perhaps I should have posted everything but lead floats to the top if..............

First off casting and smeltering are two different operations. Noting should go into a bottom pour poy but clean well fluxed alloy.

Back 30 plus years ago I did my own smeltering using CoWW ,berm range lead, indoor rang lead and Lino and Momo type. I used a custom made bottom pour pot fired with a gas water heater burner propane fueled from my 250 gallon propan tank.
My ingots were super clean and my casting pot needed very little fluxing. Now I do very little casting , I use 2-6-92 from a commerical bullet caster and recently have been adding 1/3 by weight CCWW ingots purhased from a member here.

Tin ends up on the very top and a few have been known to skim it offand discard it. many flux with wax, parifin , bees wax ,bullet lube while smelting and while casting. If that works for them fine but I belong to the wax is not flux camp. I will turn 68 in a couple of months and this is old dog is not going to relearn how to cast. What worked for me years ago is still working fine now and my guess I will not be casting all that many more years anyway.

To empty or not to empty.

Price a RCBS Pro Melt and then read the directions for adding alloy to it for the first time. IMO if you empty it you need to follow first start instructions.

[Cane_man]

^^^ does that mean you are in the camp for leaving the lead in the pot to cool?

[detox]

Case Stuffer, What do you use to flux?

[jdam169]

My pot is a very old lee probably from the 80's that I got from a friends dad who wasn't using it anymore. It leaked like crazy so I emptied it out to see what was going on. Rust and crud was all on the bottom and sides. I decided to put it in the blast cabinet and it cleaned up like new. I then polished the end of the rod with 600 grit sandpaper that goes in the bottom of the pot. No leaks anymore.

[geargnasher]

Anybody notice, way back in the thread, that Case Stuffer said the only cleaning he did was to scrape the SIDES of the pot with a stick and to "flux"? The important part to note here is he uses CLEAN ingots only in the casting pot, and doesn't scrape the BOTTOM of the pot with his stick. If you do both of those things, you will not have dust/dirt/junk/oxides building up under your melt.

It probably doesn't matter a whole lot if you leave lead in there or not, although I tend to think that the liner takes more of a beating over time if you start with it packed full of ingots and air vs. leaving some lead up to at least the level of the heating elements. The other thing about starting empty each time is there's a bett er likelyhood of oxide skin from the ingots getting trapped under the melt. Once stuff is trapped under the surface tension and weight of the metal it's a bear to get it back to the top. Stuff above the surface on the bottom, in the melt, will rise to the top eventually if it's lighter than the alloy.

Gear

[detox]

From Mr. Fryxell's ebook:

Cleaning the Lead Pot - I’ve heard of just about every method imaginable for cleaning lead pots -- wire-brushes, electric drills, cold chisels, scrapers, even sand-blasting. By far the easiest and best way to clean out the residues that eventually accumulate is with hot water. Take a cup of near boiling water, pour it into the room temperature pot (it should be obvious that you DON’T do this with a hot pot!), let it stand for a minute or two (stirring occasionally), then drain it out. Your pot (and pour spout) will come out remarkably clean. A word of caution: don’t try to heat the water by putting a cup of cold water in a cold pot and then turning the pot on. It takes a while to heat the water to its boiling point, and by the time the water approaches boiling, the heating element has gotten MUCH hotter. The water will go from warm and steaming slightly, to Mt. St. Helens in a matter of seconds. Bad idea…..

[detox]

Case Stuffer, What do you use to flux?

I think i found answer


Tried something different fluxing yesterday.

I was walking thru my woods yesterday and due to a lot of recent high winds there were a great many small pine twigs on the ground. I picked up a few that were about pencil size ,chopped of the ends (neddles) and used these to stir / flux the pot. Upon inserting their ends to near the bottom of the molten lead I could hear and feel the outgassing and there was a nice light yellow smoke from the surface. Worked great and this was the easiest I have flux a casting pot ever.

[Dumasron]

Re: cleaning the bottom spout.
I take a piece of bailing wire about 3 inches long and bend it into a horseshoe shape. Holding one side of the shoe I poke the other side into the spout from the bottom. This normally clears out the trash and allows it to float up into the melt.

[Case Stuffer]

Thanks Gear for explaining my finding in very plain language.

detox I have used pine rosin as a fluxing agent for years but yes just tried the fresh pine twigs recently and they work great and are free. Really prime rosin flux goes for like $8 for two fluid ounces.

When I was younger and cut and heated with wood I used pine lighter as a flux but then it was free except for the fact that others were willing to pay a fair amount of money for it.

Does anyone who cast perhaps also do any electrical soldering?

[JWFilips]

Anybody notice, way back in the thread, that Case Stuffer said the only cleaning he did was to scrape the SIDES of the pot with a stick and to "flux"? The important part to note here is he uses CLEAN ingots only in the casting pot, and doesn't scrape the BOTTOM of the pot with his stick. If you do both of those things, you will not have dust/dirt/junk/oxides building up under your melt.

It probably doesn't matter a whole lot if you leave lead in there or not, although I tend to think that the liner takes more of a beating over time if you start with it packed full of ingots and air vs. leaving some lead up to at least the level of the heating elements. The other thing about starting empty each time is there's a bett er likelyhood of oxide skin from the ingots getting trapped under the melt. Once stuff is trapped under the surface tension and weight of the metal it's a bear to get it back to the top. Stuff above the surface on the bottom, in the melt, will rise to the top eventually if it's lighter than the alloy.

Gear

So Gear, If I get my pot clean ( once again ) and start out with hopefully clean alloy ( I may just smelt all my stuff again for the 3rd time during this week) ...clean alloy in a clean pot...... melt comes up to temp flux ( beewax) & stir ( But don't touch or scrape the bottom of my pot ( & I have switched to metal spoons exclusively not charred sticks) I may have a good chance of getting clean bullets out of my bottom pour pot? I'm trying to stick to the stuff you told me.

However for a new caster...... man all you guys have the greatest information but many times it sure sounds contradictory to a nubee. Use a stick / don't use a stick , Use sawdust/ don't use saw dust This is really like boot camp & I'm sure you guys are training me well because in the past month & a half I think I've used everyones suggestions ( Some more then once)
I do know one thing out of all this I'm coming up with my own style that seems to be working well. I do get about 45% good out of a casting session ( If I only can keep the crud out of the boolits) What I have cast good shoot really well so I'm not giving up:-D

[cbrick]

So Gear, If I get my pot clean (once again) and start out with hopefully clean alloy (I may just smelt all my stuff again for the 3rd time during this week) ...clean alloy in a clean pot...... melt comes up to temp flux (beewax) & stir (But don't touch or scrape the bottom of my pot (& I have switched to metal spoons exclusively not charred sticks) I may have a good chance of getting clean bullets out of my bottom pour pot? I'm trying to stick to the stuff you told me.

The wax WILL NOT flux, use sawdust. Save beeswax for bullet lube.


Use a stick/ don't use a stick, Use sawdust/ don't use saw dust.

This really isn't rocket science. Use sawdust, it is a flux, it will do everything you need a boolit alloy flux to do. I know many here swear by using a wood stick to stir but I never do because it adds charred wood under the surface of the alloy.

Rick

[41 mag fan]

The wax WILL NOT flux, use sawdust. Save beeswax for bullet lube.

At first i used sawdust, from my mitersaw. Just wasn't real happy with how it was fluxing. Goodsteel posted about using pine pet bedding in a different thread. I myself, found this to work much better.



This really isn't rocket science. Use sawdust, it is a flux, it will do everything you need a boolit alloy flux to do. I know many here swear by using a wood stick to stir but I never do because it adds charred wood under the surface of the alloy.

Rick

Almost sounds contradictory there Rick. If you use sawdust you're going to get it below the surface of the melt, and it'll be charred wood same as a wooden stick. Except the wooden stick will be whole, whereas the sawdust is free particles floating around. Only thing is if the wooden stick breaks from being charred, but then it's still whole in part so it'll float to the top quicker the particles of sawdust will.

Last few days I've been experimenting with flux, wooden spoon, and metal tablespoon. Just wasn't happy with my findings, went back to candle wax, and was not happy at all with it. Finally I found what works really good for me. Using pine pet bedding from Walmart, and a ladle style spoon that has holes in it, I push the bedding down into the melt, stirring, repeat, stir, repeat. Finally my melt came out how I wanted it, skimmed off the dirt and gunk, and used the spoon to help any trapped sediments come to the top. Worked good and I came up with a routine now that works for me.

[cbrick]

No contradiction at all. Sawdust is actually a bit difficult to get under the surface and I do nothing to attempt to get it under the surface. I stir the melt with a slotted stainless spoon from the bottom up to bring as much alloy as practical up to the surface and in contact with the charred sawdust.

Rick

[geargnasher]

Yup, you aren't going to get sawdust below the surface unless you force it down there, such as trapping it on the end of an ingot that you poke through it to the bottom, or taking a dirty spoon with sticky wax on it, and poke it through a layer of sawdust and carry it to the bottom with the spoon. That's a good way to cause a steam explosion, by the way, if your sawdust is the least bit damp.

Now, I scrape the sides of my pot with a stick. I don't always cast with the cleanest alloy I can make, and with near-pure lead I get yellow powder on the sides of the pot from the lead oxidizing like bathtub rings as I cast. A pine stick, being made of solid flux, is an excellent tool to rub against the sides of the pot. As the stick begins to char from being in contact with the hot metal, it reverts the oxides back to clean lead and cleans all the "Klingons" of dross off the sides of the pot when the level goes down.

Stirring through the melt with a stick actually fluxes below the surface, and the resulting crud floats to the top as long as you don't scratch around on the bottom.

This really is very simple: Use wood to flux and reduce oxides, how you do this is a matter of preference and happenstance. Don't put dirty stuff in the pot, and don't force dirty stuff under the melt at the bottom. That's it.

Gear