And Jeff Cooper said the .25 was not good for anything!

[Hang Fire]

Woman Stops Grizzly Attack With .25 Cal Pistol
3/8/13

This is a story of self control and marksmanship with an itsy bitsy shooter by a woman against a fierce predator. What is the smallest caliber you trust to protect yourself?

Try the Beretta Jetfire!



"While hiking in Alberta Canada with my boy- friend we were surprised by a huge grizzly bear charging us from out of nowhere.

She must have been protecting her cubs because she was extremely aggressive. If I hadn't had my Beretta Jetfire with me I wouldn't be here today!

Just one shot to my boyfriend's knee cap was all it took; the bear got him and I was able to escape by just walking away at a brisk pace.

It's one of the best pistols in my collection!" http://www.scoutrifle.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif

[376Steyr]

IIRC, Cooper's advice was: Carry a .25 if it makes you feel better, but never load it. If you load it, you may shoot somebody, and they may become angry and do you a serious jury.

[abqcaster]

Ya got me!!! Great laugh, thanks!!!! [smilie=l:

[Piedmont]

A week ago I went through my stacks of Guns & Blammo magazines dating from the 60s to about 2000. I grew up reading Elmer and Jeff and was shaped by what I read. When I look at some of the recommendations now I just kinda' roll my eyes. Elmer actually strapped on a 43 ounce (unloaded wt.) .44 every day and wore it all day long. He wasn't even a cop, not that that is a bad thing, but nobody was going to call him on a radio to come get in a gun fight. Same thing with Jeff Cooper. He was retired military but carried a full size 1911 around.

In retrospect Bill Jordan strikes me as more sensible. He recommended a J frame for off duty carry. Off duty describes most civilians who lead non-confrontational lives and don't have to go into bad situations.

Then we had Jeff saying for so many years that .45 ball would drop someone 19 out of 20 times with a good hit. Elmer said a large heavy slug would stop someone with one shot and a .38 or 9mm would take 3 or 4 bullets to do the same thing. How did these guys know this? I am sure there were plenty of military men who served in wars that knew these comments didn't jibe with their experiences, but the gunwriters had a platform for their opinions every month and people like me hanging on their every word.

[texassako]

So the next time I go hiking in bear country I should carry a nice, light .25 instead of something big and heavy and make sure to invite my annoying neighbor who wonders why he is never invited.

[DaveCampbell]

Back about 30 years ago I was a cop in Afton, Wyoming. I let a guy out of the slammer one afternoon. He'd been in there for a DUI. Immediately he went to visit his boss's wife with whom he carried on a not-so-discreet relationship. His boss returned to the room he and his wife were renting and found his employee with his wife. In a state of abject umbrage he emptied a Beretta Jet Fire through a door. IIRC, two bullets made their way into the fornicator's chest. I attended his autopsy and found that every organ in his thorax had at least one hole in it. According to witnesses, it took this guy about 15 minutes to expire.

Yeah, I'll take luck over good any day, but I'm pretty sure my luck will run better with a .44, rather than a .25 ACP.

----------------------------------------------

Participating in a gun buy back program because criminals have too many guns is like castrating yourself becuae the neighbors have too many kids.

[Hang Fire]

Starting to think should not have posted the joke, humor is not some peoples forte.

[DaveCampbell]

Starting to think should not have posted the joke, humor is not some peoples forte.

Sorry, didn't mean to sound vitriolic.

[Angus]

I think most everyone else skipped the last couple lines like I did the first time through...

[9.3X62AL]

I read the text through the first time. Gave me a chuckle.

Angus, I like your avatar and your mathematics. :)

[gunfan]

When placed in the eye or nose, the .25 ACP can, in fact, prove quite deadly. If it finds its way past a rib, or strikes a femoral or carotid artery it can prove fatal.

Gunfights are such uncertain encounters.

Scott

[Doc65]

I just assumed it was part of his signature stuff and didn't read past "Try the Beretta Jetfire!"

now that i read it, it's the old, "I dont have to out run the bear, I just have to out run YOU... " :twisted:


I think most everyone else skipped the last couple lines like I did the first time through...

[MT Chambers]

Keith and others incl. P.O. Ackley had access to alot of testing done for the Army using both live and dead animals, which may have shaped some of their theories. Most of this testing was done in a way to make results as consistant as possible.

[ddixie884]

If you never met Jeff Cooper, You can be excused for the things you don't know, or understand. Have a good day...............

[44man]

Starting to think should not have posted the joke, humor is not some peoples forte.
Humor belongs here, it is great. I already knew that one but it still brings a chuckle. Makes me think some liberal neighbors are good bear protection! :drinks:

[gunfan]

Funny and clever stories are one thing. Deadly results from an encounter are quite another. The .25 ACP has racked up a large number of corpses since John Moses created it.

I know of at least two incidents where it resulted in immediate death; An LA "Biker"/thug shot by a store owner shot the thug between the ribs. He was dead within moments from a punctured right heart ventricle.

In Panama, a marauding thug, mistakenly assaulted an older man in one of the field camps. The younger man was shot once and never went much of anywhere. The young Marine that filed the report realized the the younger man called it upon himself.

Scott

[44man]

Funny and clever stories are one thing. Deadly results from an encounter are quite another. The .25 ACP has racked up a large number of corpses since John Moses created it.

I know of at least two incidents where it resulted in immediate death; An LA "Biker"/thug shot by a store owner shot the thug between the ribs. He was dead within moments from a punctured right heart ventricle.

In Panama, a marauding thug, mistakenly assaulted an older man in one of the field camps. The younger man was shot once and never went much of anywhere. The young Marine that filed the report realized the the younger man called it upon himself.

Scott
Not grizzly bears or Kodiaks. Red Ryder stings!

[gunfan]

44man: If you'd briefly stand still I can use a .25 ACP and make you assume room temperature. Care to try it?

I thought not.

[44man]

44man: If you'd briefly stand still I can use a .25 ACP and make you assume room temperature. Care to try it?

I thought not.
You still assume wrong, I am not a bear. I bet I could make you run with a BB gun! :mrgreen::mrgreen:
The question is, would you use a .25 against a bear or would you rather cripple a liberal?
Personally I would beat Obama with a stick or rock to slow him down. OOPS, need a golf club! :drinks:

[gunfan]

With Obama, it wouldn't take too much. His balls are still on the putting green. :) :)

Scott

[44man]

With Obama, it wouldn't take too much. His balls are still on the putting green. :) :)

Scott
What balls? Oh you mean the white ones! :mrgreen:

[Mohillbilly]

I always figured a .25 was a virginity protector . When the lady said no she meant it . Now a .25-06 Thats different ...... Oh it works in the ear too.

[Stephen Cohen]

I was only talking to my step dad today about American humour and how its not as harsh as our Australian humour is, I stand corrected that was funny.

[Sasquatch-1]

Humor belongs here, it is great. I already knew that one but it still brings a chuckle. Makes me think some liberal neighbors are good bear protection! :drinks:

Yeah, You can invite them on a PHOTO SAFARI. They can take their camera and you can take the .25 acp. [smilie=w:

[leftiye]

So the next time I go hiking in bear country I should carry a nice, light .25 instead of something big and heavy and make sure to invite my annoying neighbor who wonders why he is never invited.

I agree, if you carry a real gun, at least you can put your boyfriend out of his misery.

[Case Stuffer]

So two cowboys that have not eaten well in a week are riding across the range when they spot a buffalo(stakes and stew on the hoff) ,one starts to pull his thirty- thirty and the other one says if you shot him with that it will only make him made all the while dismounting .unleashing his big ole buffalo rifle and just about that time the buffalo disapears in a cloud of dust. Seems he got tired of wainting around to see what the two horse riders had in mind.


.45 APC trumps a 9MM , a .357 and 9 both trump a .38, which trumps a .32 which trumps a .380 etc.,etc.. Thing is the lowly .22 rimfire has indeed kill more than a few humans and a bunch of critters some of them deer size and larger.

For a numer of years due to where I worked and comuted to and from I carried not only a 1911 .45 ACP but also a 8 shot .22 semi.. If push came to shove and someone took my .45 or managed to prevent me from drawing it I hoped I could use the .22 to place 5 out of 8 into thier face,throat. That little .22 pop gun was 100 reliable with CCI stingers and those things are capable of raising very large welts on ones skin.

The best gun to have is the one you are closest to and a handgun is best used to delay/extend the gun fight while you fetch one that is bigger and bader.


Back to OP, for some reason I thought there was a sub forum for humor and also figured this forum are for serious(?) subjects but then how can any of us be taken very serious when many of just want to play with our guns or is that no longer a politicaly correct term?

[I'll Make Mine]

Well, I just got my Excam GT-27 working (it was in bad shape when I got it, never got around to taking it apart until this past weekend). It's probably no more effective than my Hi-Standard Sentinel .22 revolver, and holds one less round even with one in the spout and a full magazine, but it's a great deal smaller (heck, I could almost hide it inside the magazine of my Mosin Nagant). It's the best candidate I've got for a gun I can always have close by; after all, it only has to be good enough to let me get to my .380 and .357 -- which two will surely create enough consternation to give me time to load my Mosin (from a stripper, takes around ten seconds), which will stop pretty much any small scale conflict.

[gunfan]

Well, I just got my Excam GT-27 working (it was in bad shape when I got it, never got around to taking it apart until this past weekend). It's probably no more effective than my Hi-Standard Sentinel .22 revolver, and holds one less round even with one in the spout and a full magazine, but it's a great deal smaller (heck, I could almost hide it inside the magazine of my Mosin Nagant). It's the best candidate I've got for a gun I can always have close by; after all, it only has to be good enough to let me get to my .380 and .357 -- which two will surely create enough consternation to give me time to load my Mosin (from a stripper, takes around ten seconds), which will stop pretty much any small scale conflict.

I have one of the Tanfoglio Titan .25's. The darned thing is accurate as all get out, and can be emptied at a moment's notice. I hear all the crapola about how "inaccurate" and "incapable" the little pistol is. While it isn't a powerhouse, I'd bet a well-placed FMJ in the eye would tend to ruin someone's entire afternoon... on a permanent basis. If you empty an entire magazine in someone's face, it would "take the wind out of their sails" for quite some time.

As quickly as I can spit the little projectiles out the barrel, I can cover them with the palm of my hand. That isn't bad, is it?

Scott

[I'll Make Mine]

As quickly as I can spit the little projectiles out the barrel, I can cover them with the palm of my hand. That isn't bad, is it?

More reliable than a rimfire (I keep hearing about misfires due to incomplete priming mix spread), accurate and tiny -- and as is often pointed out, any gun is better than no gun if you need one. What's not to like? Now if only ammunition were a bit less costly; my next project is to design a brass catcher so I can reload for it (and get a mold so I can make boolits that fit). I think I can fabricate a deflector and bag unit that will mount under the right grip for range trips; I can reload this tiny round with cast for less than the current going rate for .22 LR. I owned a set of dies once, about thirty years ago -- time to start looking for a deal...

[Sasquatch-1]

If you empty an entire magazine in someone's face, it would "take the wind out of their sails" for quite some time.

Scott

And leave LOTS of DNA evidence at the scene.

[nanuk]

Woman Stops Grizzly Attack With .25 Cal Pistol
3/8/13
"While hiking in Alberta Canada ...
...

this gave it away for me....

25's have been prohibited and were confiscated some 15yrs ago

no one in their right mind would advertise they still had one and carried it loaded! The law would come down on them like a piece of concrete from the Olympic Stadium in Montreal!



but it was a funny read! We used the same technique when in Polar Bear country, but used TOURISTS instead, as you would never feel bad about losing some of them!

[DLCTEX]

I was told by a person who claimed to have been there, that in a poker game one individual said he thought there was some cheating going on and pulled a 25 auto and laid it on the table. Another pulled his 45, laid it on the table and said "if you ever shot me with that little bitty gun, and I find out about it, I'm going to be mad".

[gunfan]

I was told by a person who claimed to have been there, that in a poker game one individual said he thought there was some cheating going on and pulled a 25 auto and laid it on the table. Another pulled his 45, laid it on the table and said "if you ever shot me with that little bitty gun, and I find out about it, I'm going to be mad".

And possibly dead. The jokes about someone being shot by the .25 are wearing a bit thin. When someone gets out of the hospital, (or arrives at the morgue) stories radically change. If people would just realize how deadly these little pistols really are, the jokes will slowly fall out of vogue.

I think that I'll perform some research and post the deaths generated by the .25 Auto. Perhaps the jokes would lose their humor.

Scott

[gunfan]

Many years ago when I was a young medical examiner, the LEO's brought in a 6 foot+ african american male who was very dead. The story was that her got into an altercation with some other males, slipped and fell down. A gunshot was heard, and his dying words were, "my s___ done shot me".

Sure enough, he had a .25 GSW to his chest and abdomen. They will still kill you if the bullet placement is correct.

We have a beautiful silver spanish one that my father-in-law carried with him every day when he ran his lumber company. We both shot it and decided that there were much better weapons to keep in our pants or purse.

Some one should have made a .25 revolver that would shoot the .25 auto round as I still have several boxes of ammo, but we are strictly revolver people!

medxam
__________________
Doc Garrett
Dead Man's Doctor

[gunfan]

Cartridge Discussion: .25 ACP

How many folks out there are going to admit to having a handgun chambered for the .25 ACP? If ownership of the .25 ACP is admitted then how many have actually carried a handgun so chambered? It’s a cartridge that is frequently criticized as being too unsubstantial for use for serious self-defense yet ammunition is sold each year for this pipsqueak . Somebody’s using it for something.

The .25 ACP is one of our really old semi-auto pistol cartridges. It was introduced in 1905 or 1906, depending on the reference, in the FN Model 1906. Both pistol and cartridge were of Browning design. Once the semi-auto pistol became accepted and came in general use at the beginning of the 20th century, a number of designs in different sizes and chambered for a host of new cartridges were marketed to those who felt the need to possess a handgun for self-defense. The smallest practical sizes marketed were any of several models termed vest pocket pistols. Most of these were designed around the .25 ACP or 6.35 Browning as it is known in Europe. These diminutive pistols occupied about the same space as the smallest one or two shot derringers of the previous century but featured higher ammunition capacity contained in handy magazines that made recharging more convenient. Due to the relatively high velocity of the .25 ACP cartridge, handguns so chambered offered striking effectiveness equal or exceeding many of the low-powered rim fire, pin fire, or center fire pocket pistols marketed in the later decades of the 19th century. A light-weight-for-caliber .22, .25, .30, .32, .38, or at best .41 caliber bullet traveling at 400-500 fps is anemic in the extreme. Many thousands of small semi-auto pistols taking the .25 ACP were sold worldwide over the next 75 years or so. Among the well known brands were some really fine handguns made and sold in .25 ACP including Astra, Beretta, Browning, Colt, FN, Mauser, Ortgies, Sauer, and Walther. These are finely made and exhibit design and craftsmanship fully equal to larger handguns from those firms.

GCA ’68 and a change in tastes caused the popularity of high quality arms chambered for the .25 ACP to wan by the 1970’s. The cartridge became the provenance of the inexpensive semi-auto pistol. It seems that such low quality pistols, with their uneven functional reliability, further tarnished the reputation of the .25 as a serious defensive cartridge. Design advancements in the 1980’s and 1990’s made more powerful cartridges available in pistols almost as small as many .25 pistols. These days there are not a lot of choices out there if one wants to purchase a new .25 pistol.

So, What Can It Do?

For starters the .25 fully possesses the capability to kill a person very dead. It has laid many low in it’s century plus usage. It must be remembered that the .25 pistol is not a toy and absolutely must be given the same respect that any firearm should be accorded.

I’ve toted and used the .25 on occasion and have some notion of its capabilities. Upon considering the Kel Tec P3AT, it’s .380 ACP cartridge, and it’s overall size compared to my Colt Model 1908 I decided to retire the .25 as a deep concealment handgun and go with the P3AT and its more effective cartridge. Previously I’d slipped the little Colt in my hip pocket behind my wallet if I didn’t think I could contrive to hide anything larger.


The Kel Tec P3AT is scarcely larger than the Colt Model 1908 but offers significantly more punch.

Years ago I saw my first example of .25 ACP effectiveness and it was sorry indeed. I’d left a hunting vest on a tank dam where I’d been dove hunting one afternoon. Before work the next morning I drove out past the edge of town to the pasture to retrieve the vest. I slipped my Beretta Model 1919 .25 ACP behind my wallet and began hiking up a fence row to the stock tank. About 300 yards up the path from the road I suddenly found myself face to face with a coyote which was sitting on it’s haunches in the broom weeds at the edge of the path I was traveling. Pleased to have an opportunity to rid the countryside of one of the varmints I whipped out the .25 pistol and fired full into the center of the coyote’s chest, seeing dust and fur fly where the bullet struck. The distance couldn’t have been more than 5 yards. The coyote whirled and ran off. I’m sure I could ascertain a baleful look in its eye as it turned to run, contemptuous of my ordnance.

Someone once dumped an old washing machine in a gully on our gun club property. I took advantage of the opportunity to fire a few shots into its side with this .25 Beretta. The result was chipped paint and deep puckers. No bullet penetrated the side of the washer. A few more shots with a Smith & Wesson Model 17 .22 Long Rifle revolver penetrated the washer’s side. What was this? The .22 would pierce the sheet metal. I knew the Beretta was old, its bore ravaged by corrosive priming. The rifling was only a shadow in the pitted surfaces of the bore. I speculated that bore condition could be affecting my .25’s effectiveness.

At the next Fort Worth gun show I swapped the Beretta and cash for a Colt Model 1908 .25 that had a sparkling clean bore Since the washer was still at the range I stopped by and fired some more .25 ammo at its side. The shots from the Colt completely penetrated the sheet metal. Moral to the story is: if ya’ pistole ain’t got much horsepower to begin with, be sure it’s in good condition ‘cause you’re gonna need all the help you can get.

One evening my brother-in-law called me to talk handloading and guns. I was walking around in the house on the cell phone while visiting with him and happened to look out our front door. There on the porch sat a feral cat that I’d been gunning for. With no explanation other than “Hang on Bo” I held the phone against my chest with my left hand, fetched the .25, which happened to be nearby, eased the door open a crack, and popped the cat through both shoulders. The bullet exited and made a small, flaked mark in the concrete. The cat launched itself off the porch but immediately keeled over at the edge of the sidewalk in the grass. He’d traveled about 8 feet. He was about 10 feet from the muzzle of the Colt when I fired. Bo exclaimed, “What was that?” I replied that I’d just taken out a cat that was hanging around tormenting Wally, our kids’ new kitten.

I used the Colt .25 to administer a finishing shot to a buck once. I’d hit a buck deer high in the spine on a broadside shot with a .30-30 as he trotted through the edge of some oak woods. He was down but not out so I placed the .25 down close to the back of his head and pressed the trigger. As the shot rang out I observed the spent .25 FMJ bullet roll out of his right nostril onto the leaves, completely undamaged except for the rifling marks. The .25 effectively administered the coup de grace but was completely spent in traversing the deer’s head.

A few armadillos, ‘possums, and a ‘coon that was found beneath our camper on a deer lease have given their all to my .25 ACP and it proved to be effective on these varmints.

A Stinker to Shoot

I’ve owned an Astra Model 1916 (?), a couple of Colt Model 1908 .25 pistols and a Browning Baby since I traded out of that old Beretta. I get a kick out of shooting the diminutive pistols but can’t say I’m good at it. The sights are rudimentary, the triggers are a chore, and there just isn’t much for me to hold onto. The Browning Baby was about as tedious as shooting a .44 Magnum with full power loads because of this. The Colt Model 1908 seems to offer a bit more to hold. All .25 ACP pistols are loud enough to ring one’s ears if hearing protection is not worn. Despite the small pistols’ general unsuitability for use I’ve been know to wile away part of an afternoon trying to shoot distant targets with them for fun. There’s a good-sized mesquite tree at the end of the road leading to the lake cabin that is slightly smaller in diameter than a skinny man. The distance is around 100 yards from the cabin yard. It’s possible but not easy to chip and nick the bark on the tree with .25 bullets. The last time I played at this game I had my best results shooting prone.

Oh the Raw Power

The traditional factory ballistic figures quoted for the .25 ACP with it’s standard 51 grain full metal jacketed bullet is 760 fps with 64 ft./lbs. of energy. Most consider the .25 ACP to be inferior to the .22 Long Rifle for self defense. This isn't entirely true as may be seen. It’s one thing to fire a .22 Long Rifle from a handgun with a four inch to eight inch barrel yet quite another to fire it from a typical vest pocket pistol with it’s barrel length of perhaps two inches at most. Perspectives change when firing both cartridges from similar handguns. It is said that the .25 ACP feeds more reliably than the longer rimmed .22 Long Rifle. There may be some truth to that statement as my .25 ACP semi-auto pistols have fed and functioned with perfect reliability.

Because some folks are gluttons for punishment, die sets for handloading the .25 are available. Picking out .25 ACP cases from the typical litter of .22 rim fire cases on the ground at the range is enough to make one cross-eyed. Once set up for handloading the tiny components aren’t quite as bad to handle as may be imagined. I handload for the .25 ACP as I must have a low threshold of entertainment. My RCBS Uniflow powder measure can just be adjusted to reliably throw the maximum listed charge of Unique. It won’t go any lower and is easier to set just a little over the maximum listed charge weight for Unique. I’ve only attempted to load Bullseye and Unique in the .25 ACP. I’d assumed that Bullseye would be the best choice but Unique gives higher velocities using maximum published loads. The .25 ACP would have to be the least expensive cartridge of all to handload if one troubled himself to cast bullets for it. I’m just not that dedicated.

The Inevitable Tests

My brother-in-law and I recently spent a pleasant afternoon testing the .25 ACP and the .22 Long Rifle in a pair of Berettas he has. These two pistols have barrels of the same length. Below find data from this afternoons tests along with some additional .25 ACP data including handloads.


The two Beretta pistols used in testing.

.25 ACP Factory loads

Remington 51 grain FMJ, MV 789 fps, ME 71 ft./lbs.
Winchester 50 grain FMJ, MV 852 fps, ME 82 ft./lbs.*
Hornady XTP 35 grain hollowpoint MV 1004 fps, ME 78*

.25 ACP Handloads

Remington 51 grain bullet, 1.6 grains Unique, MV 853 fps, ME 82 ft./lbs.
Remington 51 grain bullet, 1.2 grains Bullseye, 728 fps, ME 60 ft./lbs.
Rem. 51 grain bullet, (can't tell-it's a secret) Unique, MV 933 fps, ME 99 ft./lbs.



Selected .22 Long Rifle cartridges fired from a Beretta Model 21A

Remington high-velocity copper plated 40 grain solid (Golden Bullet)*
MV 842 fps, ME 63 ft./lbs.

Remington high-velocity lead 36 grain hollow point*
MV 865 fps, ME 60 ft./lbs.

Winchester high-velocity lead 40 grain solid*
MV 854 fps, ME 65 ft./lbs.

Winchester high-velocity copper plated 36 grain hollow point*
MV 894 fps, ME 64 ft./lbs

A Colt Model 1908 and a Oehler Model 12 chronograph were used except (*) in which a Beretta Model 950 B .25 ACP and a Beretta Model 21A .22 Long Rifle were tested over a Chrony chronograph. Coincidentally, the Winchester factory 50 grain load checked out identically when fired from both the Colt and the Beretta and the Unique handload was only one foot per second faster.


When considering the midget automatics I'd prefer the .25 ACP to the .22 Long Rife though the difference is so minuscule as to be pointless. The .25 ACP feeds more reliably, the heavier and slightly larger .25 bullet shows equivalent velocities, and the fully jacketed design should deform less and offer more penetration. In tests against the '92 Dodge pickup fender the .25 ACP was noticeably more reliable in penetrating it than was the .22 Long Rifle when fired from the short barreled pistols. Neither was 100% successful in penetrating the fender. Not sure just what this test on the fender proves.

If one is required to utilize the .25 ACP for self-defense the original 51 grain loading looks like the best bet in my view. Lately the standard full metal jacketed bullet is listed as 50 grains. The cartridge will never have the reputation as a stopper. In order for it to do it’s best work it needs to penetrate to a vital organ. The lighter weight, expanding bullets offered by some ammunition manufacturers in an effort to provide “enhanced performance” appear to me to be more likely to fail to adequately penetrate. Some of these are: 40 grain Glazer Safety Slug, 45 grain Winchester Super-X Expanding Point, 35 grain Hornady XTP hollow point, and 35 grain Speer Gold Dot hollow point. The whiz-bang fancy .25 slug that opens up effectively won’t do much good if it opens up in the lining of a winter jacket or perhaps a rib bone or skull, leaving an assailant who is even more agitated. I’ve had no experience with any “high performance” .25 ACP ammunition so am not qualified to say what it would do. What’s more, I don’t intend to purchase a bunch of different brands order to find out what they could do. Penetration would be the first priority when selecting ammunition to carry in these pistols.

If it's all one has in his possession, a .25 ACP pistol should certainly be pressed into service for defense. It’d be better than nothing. A well-thrown punch generates more foot-pounds of energy but one must close with the adversary in order to land a blow. Since very small pistols are now available in more powerful cartridges there isn't really place for the .25 ACP in one’s self defense arsenal. It’s appeal in the 21st century lies in the collectors' fascination for the finely finished examples of the miniature handguns made in this chambering.

[Sasquatch-1]

Just to put your mind at ease, I have a fine example of the little Colt pocket pistol (although I don't think this is refered to by that name) that was made in 1927 according to Colt. I took it to the range just last week and if I could have seen the front sight better It would have been very accurate at 15 yds. The problem is that the sight system is so bloody small I can't focus on the darn things.

Now, I don't have to get stung by a bee to know it hurts and with a pistol of this size all I am expecting to do is make the opponent have second thoughts and leave.

[gunfan]

A "get off me" gun, or, "I have inflicted sufficient pain to permanently discourage the fool" isn't bad. What most people don't realize is Jan Libourel wrote an article on the .25 ACP in the 1984 Guns and Ammo special "Pocket Pistols" letting people know that, from a "pocket pistol" the .25 ACP carries more energy than the .22 lr. (Don't let the "Gun Store Gurus" tell you any differently.) This fact, coupled with the reliability of the center fire, and the Full Metal Jacket loaded in the round, makes it a better choice in the pocket auto than the rimfire cartridge. Penetration is the primary attribute of these pistols, and hollow points in the .25 ACP is self-defeating.

It's not a powerhouse, but it can save you in a pinch.

Scott

[junkbug]

I clearly remember reading, in several very different recollections from former WWII German veterans, about some non-coms having been issued 6.35mm revolvers. The story that immediately comes to mind is from the book "Stuka Pilot" by Hans U Rudel, discussing his being shot down behind enemy lines with his rear gunner, who was said to have a 6.35mm revolver. Yet I have never seen one, or even a picture of one. The Germans were fond of 7.65mm autos (32acp) also, and even considered them a substitute caliber/cartridge.

I would love to see a WWII or earlier 6.35mm (25ACP) revolver.

[gunfan]

I am going to divulge the secret of this load:

Rem. 51 grain bullet, (can't tell-it's a secret) Unique, MV 933 fps, ME 99 ft./lbs.

There is an ENORMOUS caveat that goes with this load! You should only use it in a Beretta Jetfire or Model 21a (or stronger) pistols! That, said, it is two (2) grains Unique for this load.

I CANNOT, NOR WILL I, BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THE USE OF THIS LOAD IN WEAKER, OR "POT METAL" PISTOLS!

Scott

[mstarling]

Many years ago, I spent a summer working as a morgue denier to augment the regular as really he needed some support due to the work load. In this job, I set up the table, helped as asked, and cleaned up. In Florida in the summer time the work can be pretty ugly.

We had one task I remember pretty clearly ... large black male, late 20s, well developed w good nutrition. Had been hit three times in the chest w a 25 ACP. One projectile came to rest in the left neck, one in the left under arm, and the last in the left lower inside thigh. Virtually every organ penetrated.

Seems the fella had accosted someone armed with the little weapon. That person managed to get a few feet away and fired three times at the attacker. The attacker then proceeded (probably in some degree of shock) to put the person who he was attacking in the hospital with his bare hands.

Two lessons stayed with me ... 25s go in and can "bounce around a bit," and small calibers may be better than nothing ... but may not bring about a cessation of attack.

I can't imagine even considering the carry of such a chambering in bear country. I suspect the circumstances given in the original post were not correct.

[OutHuntn84]

Love that joke!

I've carried (on and off duty) my lil buddy (Beretta Jetfire) for many years and as a result have taken more than a few good ribings for it. I never let it get to me because 10 years later I have yet to find one that wants to go down range and catch a round to prove me wrong and that makes for half the battle right there. :lol:

[dubber123]

This thread has progressed well off it's origional intent, which was a quite funny joke. Since it has wandered so far, I may as well contribute my 2 cents, FWIW.. Can a .25 be deadly, sure, plenty of evidence exists to prove that. Can it's lack of power cause an attack to continue or escalate when a larger or more powerful round would have ended it? You bet. Bottom line is, carry what you are comfortable with, and know how to use it. Also be willing to admit carrying a very small, low powered weapon is a compromise, and it might bite you in the back side. I'd take a .25 over my bare hands, and if I truly couldn't carry anything else for whatever reason, I would. I carry a .38 stoked with what should be a pretty effective round, but I still willingly admit it isn't the fight stopper a .357 mag, .40 S&W, .45 ACP is, etc., etc.

[gunfan]

If you carry a good .38 Special you will be served quite well. The .32 H&R Magnum in a 4" barrel works quite well, but the .327 Federal is even better. The .32 S&W Long/Colt New Police stopped plenty of bad guys back in the day.

A .25 is not a "manstopper" but if you whip it up and empty it into someone's face, the odds are in your favor that you will either dissuade, or kill the aggressor.

Scott

[I'll Make Mine]

There were a number of Belgian revolvers chambered for .25 ACP (they'll be marked "6.35 mm") in the 1920s. I'm not sure I'd trust any of them with modern ammunition, but that's up to a detailed examination of the individual revolver; condition is everything.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ill say this. I had a berreta and it was a very good little gun. Never missed a beat and was scary accurate for a tiny gun. I had it at the range one day and was shooting it at a target board at about 20 yards and it loaded with gold dots was punching through 3/8s in plywood. I know i sure wouldnt want to be on the wrong end of it and i know it sure beats the hell out of being unarmed or showing up to a gun fight with a knife.

[gunfan]

The Beretta Jetfire .25 (a.k.a. 950BS) is one of the most reliable .25 Auto pistols available today. If the bore is in good condition, you can load the .25 up to some nice and spicy levels. 99 fpe is not something I'd want intruding on my sinuses! At close range, it will, in a pocket auto, outpenetrate the .22 lr. Granted, you wouldn't want to shoot the ".25ACP +P" all day in the Beretta. Practicing with light (standard) .25 "American" loads, will permit you to place the little pills where you want them, and the "uber" .25 loads will serve you quite well when the chips are down.

[Clark]

Hang Fire
Woman Stops Grizzly Attack With .25 Cal Pistol
3/8/13


GOOGLE news can't seem to find that, but GOOGLE search find it on a lot of forums.