Macho women, internet commandos & gunstore gunslingers. You can have them.

[Recluse]

I watched a woman go ballistic at a gun store today because one of the clerks dared suggest a revolver to her as a self-defense choice to carry in her purse. Her boyfriend/husband/metrosexual toy got really indignant and proceeded to educate all of us how a revolver just wasn't relevant in today's world.

He then began spouting off statistics and cropping names like Yeager (the guy who crapped his pants, turned tail and ran when confronted in an ambush in Iraq as a private security contractor--but who now talks tougher than anyone) and Rob Pincus (who's yet to fire a shot in anger at anyone other than maybe his internet video editor) and other popular new age culture Facebook blogger experts--the overwhelming majority of whom have never served a damned day in combat boots for any branch of any service, but who are now experts in tactics and ambushes and assaults. :rolleyes:

I suspected that this broad and her poser boy were nothing more than rabble-rousers looking for internet material to post about--kind of like feminazis in the gun world, or worse, idiot women who think they deserve to be Navy SEALs and British SAS troops.

My handle fits me perfectly because the older I get, the more reclusive I get. It's getting to the point to where I'm close to despising damn near the entire human population.

I see all these facebook pages and blogs about these idiot survivalists running around "playing army" as we used to call when I was a kid and pounding themselves on their chests (and boobies) about "being ready to kick some ***" and worse, the legions of "friends" and "likes" and "fans" they actually BELIEVE these nimrods.

Then some troublemaker like me occasionally comes along and innocently asks them which cavalry unit they were with (some of these nimrods have cav patches on their tacticool BDUs or apparel) or which branch of the military they served in or which police agency they toted a badge for.

The initial silence is deafening, then comes the predictable and inevitable counterattack. They can never simply say, "Never served," but instead always have a reason (usually sports-related or medical) as to why but it doesn't stop them from today being the biggest Billy Bad *** in their neck of the woods.

I don't get it.

Hell, I was in the Air Force for crying out loud. Now, I do have some particular skill sets that they taught me many years ago that could become very useful in certain situations, but the point is, in a SHTF situation, I'm running to the nearest Love Life or Old Tool Sniper or Larry Gibson type of man I can find. In other words, I'm gonna link up with men who have REAL skills on the ground and can coordinate a number of people into a functioning, surviving and thriving platoon. They've been there, many many times and the fact that they are still with us tells me they were pretty good at it.

I know LOTS of veterans who have zero embarrassment whatsoever to admit we don't know spit from shinola about coordinating a rear-flank circulating three-dog-night half-moon ambush. As one buddy says, "But I'll cook you the damndest tasting breakfast when you come home from it!"

Why do so many people who've never even walked up to the spear, let alone held, now suddenly think that because of the internet, they are now the tip of that spear?

I've had enough. If I want to recommend a revolver to a lady as her first self-defense firearm, I'll damned well recommend it. If she--or her tacticool metrasexual model--takes issue, then to hell with her.

But one thing for certain: I'm tossing what little diplomacy I might have ever had out the window moving forward.

:coffee:

[shooter93]

Quit reading the blogs JD....smiles...I just ignore all that kind of stuff. Actually I always recommend a revolver to people who are just starting out and may never spend the time to really learn a semi-auto gun. I carry a revolver way more than an auto myself and don't fret much about the opposistion.

[felix]

Recluse, did you forget our fighting guru: Boerrancher? ... felix

[KinkBreaker]

i love this post.
some people just need their face punched in a few times to have any humility. at least thats where i got mine. i didnt serve in any military but thank you for your service recluse

[Love Life]

The internet is like alcohol. It makes you 3 foot taller, adds no less than 100 lbs of pure muscle, and makes you look 100% better.

[montana_charlie]

I, too, have little to do with 'people', anymore.
It's become pretty common that a month will go by between my trips to town, and those are 'shopping list trips' ... get there, get everything on the list, and go home.

As for the 'reasons' from guys (usually older men) who never served ... I imagine that some might feel a bit of guilt for not going in, even if it wasn't their call. So, they feel obligated to explain.

As for the others ... you know their 'story' as well as I.

CM

[blademasterii]

I tell ppl when they are looking for a home defense gun to get a shotgun. If you don't have any training with a pistol or a willingness to shoot it a lot, its not the best defensive weapon. It is easy to have turned on you, it has a short sight radius, compromises on power and has limited ammo. A shotgun for the home is better for defense if you dont shoot a lot. If someone doesnt like my opinion, its their life and their money. Sure, buy that .22 with the 2 in barrel and tell yourself you are safe because you have a gun. Just don't get offended if I tell you when asked that if I had to shoot someone a .44 is much higher on the list of choices than a .22.

[deltaenterprizes]

+1 on the revolver! I carry one in lower crime area, but when I go to the crime infested city I take my higher capacity Glock 26 with 2 mags.

[TheGrimReaper]

Very well said Sir!!! Was She wearing a flannel shirt and her boy toy in skinny jeans?

[Love Life]

+1 on the revolver! I carry one in lower crime area, but when I go to the crime infested city I take my higher capacity Glock 26 with 2 mags.

I take my AK-15 glock with a 500 rd assault bullet magzine clip drum.

[Trey45]

I feel your pain JD. I have recommended plenty of revolvers to plenty of new shooters, but none so far has blasted me for it nor tried to "educate" me on their relevance. I have been around enough of the know it all types at the firing line to last me a lifetime.

[L Ross]

Well, at least they are buying guns and therefore less likely to vote for someone wanting to ban that. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Duke

[btroj]

Everyone wants a 1911 until they shoot it compared to my GP100. Amazing what a bit of reality does. Holes in a target beat ground impacts every time.

I live In a real world, sadl that is as strange as common sense these days.

Recluse, you forgot the mall ninjas at the range. Love the, too.

[Houndog]

I'm right there with ya Recluse! I did my time in the rice patty like Many others on this site and have spent most of my life learning the ins and outs of shooting. I have little use for the rambo wanna be's! As far as recomending a wheel gun or not, the 3 people that I would GLADLY lay down my life for and carry a bucket of gas through Hell for all eternity to protect (Wife, Daughter and Grandson) ALL carry or shoot REVOLVERS and shoot them quite well! Nuf said!

[Harter66]

Love Life,
Do you have any idea how hard it is to get this damned phone dried out when you do that?

I wonder if the "dime store cowboys"have ever considered that it doesn't matter what action or caliber you chose if you lack the management tools to deal w/what happens right after you figure out if you have the compunction to use the BB cap 22 darenger or the full tacti-tricked 11-87.

As a young man through not fault of my own I found myself on the business end of a 38 , it may as well have been 5"-38 as S&W M&P. Actually a revolver is a great choice, point and click, click again if it doesn't go bang. The poor sod on the other end in good light can see the huge flat nose and/or gaping HP too.

As Robin Williams said "joke em' if they can't take a ----". Too many people today simply can't understand how anyone can have an opinion other than theirs. Some one here is often read to say I just laugh knowing lyrics and turn/walk away,it is the surest way I know of to handle the dime store cowboy. If only I could do that w/o saying "you kept believing that".......

[1Shirt]

Ah yes, the wisdom of the internet shines thru!
1Shirt!

[Love Life]

Love Life,
Do you have any idea how hard it is to get this damned phone dried out when you do that?



In keeping with the ideals of my generation, I can't be held accountable for my actions. Nor do I take any responsibility for the events brought about by my actions.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

I'm right there with ya, I'm working on my hermit status merit badge daily

[bob208]

i wonder how the human race has lasted this long when i see most of the people.

yes charlie i do feel guilty. i had the papers signed went down on the bus failed the hearing test. got 4f and sent home. that was in 69.

[badboyparamedic]

I keep telling the wife I am not anti-social, I am just Anti-people. She cant understand why.
Its because of people like that.

[dragon813gt]

The more time I spend with my dog. The less I want to be around people. I'm in my early thirties and can't stand most people already. All the Internet commandos, mall ninjas and preppers are selfish people that are not going to make it if things get bad.

As far as the revolver part. It's just another case of an uneducated person spouting off for no other reason then to hear themselves talk. To many young people will never say "I don't know." I say it a few times a day and it's how I've learned. I carry a revolver in areas where I don't want evidence left at the scene ;)

[garym1a2]

Myself, I prefer Glocks as my car gun is G21SF and uspsa gun is G22. Showed my ex how to shoot, she could not get firm enough grip to keep it from stovepipes and FTF. She wanted to keep my 686 loaded with 38's instead. My brother teaches a CCW class with an out doors shooting session. Many of the guys bring their girls guns they cannot shoot. He always brings a Wather P22 so they can learn to shoot a gun they actually enjoy and can handle.

P.S, I never served.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Reminds me of the 68 yr. old nurses aide that was talked into getting a .380 auto for her personal protection when alone. She came to my pistol night at a club I used to belong to for some instruction on the pistol. After some basic talking to about shooting the gun I took her into the range room. When I instructed her to load and chamber a round she couldn`t retract the slide to strip a round off the magazine! Turns out the guy that convinced her to buy this mini-anchor wasn`t even a shooter of anything except maybe his mouth, just heard that these semi`s were easier for women to shoot! We let her use a S&W M 36 snubbie revolver and she took to it like a duck to water. The next week she showed up at pistol night with a nice shiny new S&W M 36, she traded the semi back in at the shop she got it for the Smith. The next time someone starts preaching on the betterment of semi over revolver, casually ask them how do you clear a stove pipe jam correctly and above all rapidly?Robert

[runfiverun]

they didn't throw out the term "high speed low drag" did they?
i wanna punch the next person i hear say that.

[Love Life]

High speed low drag.

I can't help myself. I am immature...

[Goatwhiskers]

Amen, Recluse, Amen. GW

[Philngruvy]

i love this post.
some people just need their face punched in a few times to have any humility. at least thats where i got mine. i didnt serve in any military but thank you for your service recluse

I second that!!!

[ubetcha]

My daughter in-law is about to purchase a S&W model 60. Before she considered it,I talked to her about pro's and con's about revolvers and semi-autos.I said semi's are nice for capacity but a revolver had dependability.No safety to worry about when in a situation,no need to hold recoil to prevent stovepipes, no fail feeding,no hitting mag release at wrong time.Too many thing to be floating in back of mind if not used to dealing with without thinking about it.
Oh by the way,glad you back Recluse.Hope recovery is going well.:)

[Recluse]

The internet is like alcohol. It makes you 3 foot taller, adds no less than 100 lbs of pure muscle, and makes you look 100% better.

Only if you want it to.

I've found a few folks over the years, some of whom are right here at CB that I've cranked up the Cessna and flown out to see.

Talk about the real deal. I ended up three feet shorter, wondering where my muscles all went and was terrified to look in the mirror.

I've hooked up with various military guys who had skills that left me blowing snot-bubbles of humility at blowhard characters like Stallone and Schwarzenegghead.

On the other hand, I was tasked to a couple of missions when in the employ of the gov't that relied upon my own skill set, and some of these heroes of mine shook their heads and shook my hand afterward and marveled at how I'd manage to do what I did.

Point is, I don't think I'm much good at anything. . . I KNOW I'm not much good at anything. I'm simply a man who knows his capabilities and limitations based upon, get this. . . actual freaking experience and having survived those experiences, sometimes just barely but nonetheless still consuming oxygen.

I still cherish my first meeting with GoatWhiskers (Mike) over in Natchitoches (Louisiana). He and I and some other real Americans, all of whom knew who we were and what we were about and what are limitations were, went to the local range for some shooting.

Mike handled the pistols and wheelguns just fine and like the pro he is. We'd only brought short guns with us and he was wishing he'd brought a few of his long guns. Someone back at the airport handed him a couple of rifles and the way Mike took possession and handled them was like watching Van Clibern sit down to a piano. The words "sheer confidence" came to mind along with the thought of "Damn, here's a guy who can teach me a lot about being a better shot and rifleman." And I'm not a bad rifleman at all--but like Mike, there are those out there who are incredible.

I'm a pretty fair pilot, working on completing my instrument rating (I'm also a pretty fair procrastinator) and I've driven the beloved blue Cessna all over the U.S. from I-25 eastward.

But whenever I'm flying with my uncle, a forty-year Air Force and then FAA professional pilot, I feel like a hack because in the right seat with me, I've got a REAL pilot. I feel that way about all the gray-hairs at our airport. These are surviving and retired USAF and USN pilots from Vietnam and recent who then took their flying and put it to work for various airliners and freight-haulers and private entities and did so for tens of thousands of hours.

I laugh my *** off when the occasional student or low-time pilot flies in on their student cross country or for the proverbial $100 hamburger and then ends up "lecturing" one of these guys as to how to fly an approach or what proper radio procedure at a non-towered field is.

But disturbingly, I'm seeing this same lack of respect and proliferance of ego in our gun stores and ranges. Do these young people not realize that some of us carried weapons professionally and in the service of our country and communities and had to use them in defense of same? That real life is not television Hawaii Five O shows or internet blogs and Facebook "survivalist" pages?

God help us if times continue to get worse because shooting WILL start. It will start somewhere and these little prepper survivalist ****** wannabes who are convinced they know the right way because that's the way a Rob Pincus has told them on DVD or internet forum are going to be in for a very rude, rough, unpleasant and often fatal surprise.

Maybe we should just begin investing in the Darwin Award manufacture company and see if we can get them to do an IPO. . .

:coffee:

[M-Tecs]

they didn't throw out the term "high speed low drag" did they?
i wanna punch the next person i hear say that.

"high speed low drag" that's me!!! No wait I have that backwards. Low speed high drag is more appropriate.:bigsmyl2:

[km101]

I keep telling the wife I am not anti-social, I am just Anti-people. She cant understand why.
Its because of people like that.


I'm not anti-social, or anti-people........I'm ANTI-IDIOT!!! And it seems to me that the percentage of them in our society is growing exponentially! What with all the "gun shop gurus", "mall ninjas" and "range rambos" you cant go anywhere any more without running into them. I usually try to see them as entertainment, or at least ignore them, but it's getting harder and harder. It must have something to do with aging, as I didnt have this problem in the good 'ole days.

And it's funny that the whole time I was in the military (69 - 76) I never met a Army Ranger, or a Navy Seal or a Green Beret in the flesh. I guess they were all serving in other areas. But nowadays you cant go to a gun shop, gun show, or range without bumping into one of them. There had to have been whole divisions of them that I never knew about! These kinds of "wannabes" really piss me off!

OK, rant off! Back to the reloading shop to work on my Hermit 2nd Class Merit Badge! :)

[smoked turkey]

I am sick to death of most politicians. I have helped vote in a new one or two and I'll be dang, within just a short time they are just like all the rest. Must be something in the Washington DC culture that does that to them. And then a lot of them just plain don't know but are too proud to ask. Yes I think we have a problem in this country from the internet know-it-alls to the Washington know-it -alls. I am with the rest when it comes to staying right here at home doing what I do best. That is just piddling around most of the time. I do have to go to town tomorrow to pick up a few things. I think that is whats wrong with me tonight. This dang thread started by Recluse didn't help too much. Well, maybe a little. JD I'm real glad your back to your old self.

[Huskerguy]

What I want to know is how you really feel? :)

My wife and I have had this running joke for probably 25 years (we have been married almost 40 and I just turned 59) where some people get a bit grumpy with me as a school administrator and I just say we are heading to that cave in Montana. Just to get away from people. But then we think of the ministry we are supposed to have her on earth and we end up cancelling the flight. Maybe someday, God will grant us the peace or not.

[Love Life]

And it's funny that the whole time I was in the military (69 - 76) I never met a Army Ranger, or a Navy Seal or a Green Beret in the flesh. I guess they were all serving in other areas. But nowadays you cant go to a gun shop, gun show, or range without bumping into one of them. There had to have been whole divisions of them that I never knew about! These kinds of "wannabes" really piss me off!

OK, rant off! Back to the reloading shop to work on my Hermit 2nd Class Merit Badge! :)


I used to always tell my buddy (School trained HOG 0317) that there are more Scout Snipers OUT of the Marine Corps than were ever trained IN the Marine Corps. I loved when somebody ran the old "I was a Scout Sniper and I can't talk about my time in the service" line past him. It always made for an enjoyable 5 minutes as he threw out random numbers and formulas for shooting.

[TCLouis]

Recluse

I tend to avoid those on both sides of the counter.

Both are usually spouting enough BS that I have to leave before I comment.

Crotchey ol Fart that I have become.

km101, here is how it was explained to me

There is a limited amount of intelligence in the world and more and more people

[oldgeezershooter]

63404

[Blacksmith]

To many people don't know what they don't know. If they are in front of the counter I consider it entertainment and see how far they will go to prove they are complete idiots. If it is someone behind the counter giving bad information I'll tell them they are wrong and leave, then tell people to avoid that place.

As far as choice of weapon the answer is always "It Depends" I just went through the basics with some neighbors. He was ex military 30 or 40 years ago but not a shooter since and she was no experience. I went through the basic pros and cons of the basic choices and recommended a 20 gauge (so the wife can handle it), saw the light bulb go off when I pointed out it could also put meat in the pot either small game or even deer with slugs. Pointed out the additional complications a semi auto handgun brings and the need for additional practice for proficiency and the advantages a revolver, double action long barrel for increased sight radius, has and the ability of using .38 Special for practice in a .357. I expect they have gone from a wonder 9, they called me from a gun store to ask my opinion, to probably will buy two, a shotgun and wheelgun. I offered to take them to the range when they were ready.

I don't know how to set an ambush and plan on trying to avoid the need; however I can keep your B52 flying and probably worked on some that are still in the air.

[runfiverun]

High speed low drag.

I can't help myself. I am immature...

when you say it, it makes me laugh.
you know what the phrase means.

when a 30 lb overweight dude like myself say's it [even though i invented the phrase] it means something else. :lol:

[xs11jack]

My wife prefers a Ladysmith. She can get that thing out and put 3 in your chest and two in your forhead and be reloading before the body hits the ground. I am not making this up. Being old, sometimes I leave the house without remembering to bring my carry auto. During those times I am very comfortable to be protected by her.
Jack

[Boyscout]

I've had the same argument about revolvers vs semi-autos with shooters and gun store clerks. I tell them that semi-autos require more training and practice but everyone wants a Glock or a 1911. In LGS defense, I have one shop that steers most newbies to revolvers and doesn't recommend Plus P ammunition to everyone, not even to someone like me who reloads and reads reloading manuals at bed time. For them it's shot placement and reliability. I can shoot a revolver with my weak hand but I can't rack the slide on a stiff semi-auto one handed.

[JesterGrin_1]

Sorry to say but in Today's world most times you are better off just to stay quiet. Many people think they know everything since they researched it on the internet. And there Better Half is a French Model lol. And they know that for sure since it was on the Internet so it has to be True lol.

I would probably be one of the first to admit that I was not in the Service as trying to pretend that a person was is a disservice and Disrespectful to those that have.

I did receive lots of military training which is a story I have posted here. But it was just training. And even though I received that training I know one thing. And that is I know just enough to get into deep trouble lol. And that if something does happen I also learned to find a Sergent that was in action as they know what to do.

I still remember back during the time of Vietnam when my Grand Father that was a General at the time told a new Officer that was heading off that he should do what the Sergent says to do and he just might live.

On a Sad thought since I brought this up. I sure wish my Grand Father lived longer so that I could have learned more from him.

In his View at the time he Loved the Army since he went in as a Private at the age of 16 just after the 1st World War and did not retire till he was in his middle 60's. So in other words he spent better than 45 years in the Army.

[ironhead7544]

I recommend a 3 or 4 inch K frame sized revolver in 38 Spl/357Mag for anyone new to handguns. Makes for a good house gun too, thats what we use. While a shotgun is a good backup, a handgun is best IMHO for the house. You can conceal it when you have to answer the door. Hard to do with a long gun.

[rintinglen]

Part of the Recluse rant had me smiling. I served in the Marines at the end of the Vietnam War. I pumped gas for helicopters. I killed as many of them as they did of me.
Combat Experience? Well, I've been married--Twice.

[dudits]

never served...
have utmost respect for most that have served... "
i live in the sticks, but it aint far enough yet. people disgust me
i always point the value of a revolver but i do carry a 1911.
my fiance carrys a revolver or auto depending where she or we go. i smile when we go to the range and guys give her **** for
her pink guns. have heard many funny comments "i would not be scared of a pink gun" me i am afraid of any gun pointed at me
lots of them also think that the lil lady is a joke, till she out shoots them :)

as far as gun stores,
as of late most people behind the counter are as bad as customers. i rarely talk when i go unless i feel spunky then i
listen to them put foot in mouth and provoke it :)
a kid at local shop lectured me on the dangers of lead boolits in comparison to factory garbage. apparently the factory stuff is
amazingly accurate and hits 100% harder. where lead boolits will not go through a windbreaker and just carrying the lead will poison you
within a few days.

WHEN the SHTF i will grab the loved ones and go to a friends house that served in nam. he is a well seasoned old man and one of my best friends. even with a large age gap.

p.s. when i carry revolvers i usually bring 2. makes up for the capacity problem.

[deltaenterprizes]

I take my AK-15 glock with a 500 rd assault bullet magzine clip drum.

LOL, I need to get one of those?

[ole 5 hole group]

Part of the Recluse rant had me smiling. I served in the Marines at the end of the Vietnam War. I pumped gas for helicopters. I killed as many of them as they did of me.
Combat Experience? Well, I've been married--Twice.


Yup, there is no doubt in my mind that you're battle hardened and have both feet planted firmly.

I'll add that after good ole Gerald Ford did away with the draft, which was actually a dis-service to our youth, in that a lot of youngsters today are really undisciplined in most areas of life. They are allowed to be so because of our past actions of our legal and educational systems, which has now turned our country into a nanny state and it's going to take something like a major world war or some other worldwide abomination to get a total change in mindset for our political leaders, which in turn should dramatically change our legal & educational systems.

I'm not holding my breath for any of that and just try to do my part teaching & training my family in the American way. All the teachers and school administrators that have any dealings with my grandchildren have been put on notice that our family will respond in kind, meaning someone throws a punch or a shove at them - they will receive it back 10 fold and then some. My grandkids will go out of their way to be gracious and helpful to others and they will show respect to their elders and authority but they were taught well to hold their ground and step up when the situation starts going downhill. They will fight the battles for those that aren't quite up to the task even though they will take a few lumps in the process and I'm very proud of all of them - my children taught them the lessons they learned through my teaching, which I learned through my Father's teachings. All school personnel agreed that a person must protect themselves but most didn't like the idea of responding in kind but were told that is the way it will be and their policies will be dealt with when the time comes. That was never a problem back in the 1950's.

Sporting goods stores selling firearms and ammunition is usually full of idiots today on both sides of the counter - the counter people seem to be paid according to their knowledge and that isn't much, so some of the blame goes to the owner, who refuses to pay an individual an adult livable wage and demand that the employee possess the technical knowledge to do the job. I had a very good friend who started a sporting goods store, who hired people that he thought were trained in firearms and who were knowledgeable and honest, as he was a hands-off owner because of a great paying job that had him out of town for weeks on end - well, he went broke in 30 months due to poor salesmanship/management on the part of his employees and theft by those same employees - this was about 35 years ago, so this mess has been around for longer than we would like to think. He trusted people but didn't take the advice of "trust but verify". He paid his employees well but he wasn't a business person himself and failed in his due diligence relative to not hiring a good manager with an accounting/bookkeeper background, responsible for overseeing day to day operations. He lost a lot of faith in his fellow man but accepted full responsibility for his business's failure and no creditor went unpaid when he finally closed the doors.

Our Nation just needs to get back to the basics outlined in our Constitution and Bill of Rights - that is no small feat today.

[Adam10mm]

It's entertaining to a point to watch these people but it gets old real fast. That's why I like this forum so much. None of that nonsense.

[km101]

Recluse

I tend to avoid those on both sides of the counter.

Both are usually spouting enough BS that I have to leave before I comment.

Crotchey ol Fart that I have become.

km101, here is how it was explained to me

There is a limited amount of intelligence in the world and more and more people

OK, now I understand. Intelligence is diluted, but it seems stupidity is concentrated!

[captaint]

I'm with you, Recluse. If my wife ever decides to carry, she will carry a .38 revolver. I guess word gets around work that I shoot a little. A couple of people have asked me recently what to carry IF they decide to get a carry license. Knowing they don't shoot much, I've told both of them to get a small revolver. I told them "it's not trendy, but it's really safe and effective". It's the loaded chamber/safety on-off thing that bothers me with people that don't shoot a lot. I believe that is how people get shot with their own gun. Fooling around with things they don't have time to fool around with. Just my oh too..... Mike

[wv109323]

I agree.....What you read and watch on computer sites and you tube make you much smarter than the next reader or observer on you tube. There is just no limit to the intelligence you can gather...except maybe common sense.

[MT Gianni]

I don't see many of them but I see enough. I get disgusted at the clerks and bystanders that tell me how much better a short mag is than the 308 target bolt they cannot ever seem to stock.
I never served in the Military, with a draft # of 300 I was told by those I respected to consider it a gift. I was in the County Sheriff Dept. as a Reserve officer for 5 years. I cannot fathom those who would wear gear that they did not earn the right to wear.

[Circuit Rider]

Recluse, The best part of your message was your ranting. Tells me you're feeling better. You had us worried for a time young man. CR

[dale2242]

I feel sorry for you people that are disgusted with the whole human race. Most of us are basically good people.
A bad apple in a bushel does not make the whole bunch bad. Or even a few bad apples, for that matter.
As a young man I had little tolerance for people that didn`t think the way I did. At 71, I find it easier to tolerate different opinions, even if they come from some I consider idiots.
My life is easier when I learned to not sweat the small s**t. Most of it is small s**t. It is just not worth the trouble to get me upset. Oh well. To each his own.....dale

[dudits]

dale, maybe my disgust will go away with age. but anytime i go anywhere i get sickened by the lack of manners alone.
i talk with my g-ma alot about fi SHTF and she has different views. she thinks if we have another depression that it will be like the one she lived through. i try to explain that people are different now and that there is alot more of us now.

there is lots of good people but way more bad ones.

[Harter66]

I never served. My Dad was 4F ,lost an eye at 7. His brother went to Korea just in time to come home. Both grandfathers and my step grandfather (Dads Dad not father) served between wars. All 4 greats served in WWI My 3rd great grandmothers 1st cousin was CIC over Teddy Roosevelt. My oldest daughter daughter rode the Reagan to Fukijima for aid support and my youngest spent 30 months in Iraqastan. I just spent 17 years shipping ammo anywhere a trigger is pulled. I assure you I've the up most respect for our service men and women.

The best thing I ever did for my shooting was hunt for a season w/a single shot to feed my family. I learned volumes that year. The biggest lesson? The missed shot doesn't feed anyone,chasing a cripple is a good way to get hurt .

[dakotashooter2]

Someone for got to mention the video game ninjas... the ones that can hit their target 99 out of 100 times with a video controller and thinks that qualifies them as an expert shot. I'm probably not much more than an average shot....... but in real life I pull the trigger selectively and generally hit what I am aiming at with only a few shots.

I also admit I was NOT in the military.......... No particular reason...... I will admit that it IS one of my regrets in life and now I'm just too damn old to do anything about it.

[Smitty's Retired]

My uncle used to tell me, "The only thing wrong with some people, is that they havn't been hurt lately." In some of the youths these days, they've never been hurt at all. No Butt whoopin's, fist fights, nothing.

Not really trying to defend the actions of the (ahem) lady in question, maybe the guy behind the counter should have asked what experience she had had with pistols.

My wife worked for Wally World for over 25 years. Before she went to work there, she had mentioned about putting in an application. I asked her what the heck for. I dang sure wouldn't, you would have to put up with too many idiots. She told me, that was my feelings about most people, and had even suggested that I had always thought I was a little more logical, than most. That I was just OCD on the whole logic and order thing. A little after a year she had been working for Wally World, each day I got to here (what I referred to as the Wally Saga's) about all the idiots that came in the store. Life is good sometimes.

[TCLouis]

km101
Course there is that other old saying . . .

There is a limit on brilliance, but none on stupidity

[gandydancer]

1957 Boston Navy 4F Heart Murmur. tried again in 1959 Maine Navy same thing. once more in 1962 in Bangor Maine. U S Air force. no luck. do I feel guilty? NOT ANYMORE.

[jmort]

One member here, and on another board I frequent, is Combat Diver. All I need to know about him is in his signature line

"Irag: 91,03,04,05,06,08 & 09'
Afghanistan: 09,10, & 11'"

I expect he knows a quite a bit. Regardless, my hat's off to members like him and if he has an opinion I will listen.

[VladViscious]

Funny, I saw the line about a revolver not being relevant in this world, and reached down felt the grip of the 357 Vaquero I open carry whenever I can and thought, I seem to have more polite interactions when I were this irrelevant hunk of metal than when I don't.

TANSTAAFL!

[TXGunNut]

I love hanging out at gun shops so much that a few over the years consider me an unpaid employee and put me to work when things are busy or a customer has a question that I'm better qualified or more willing to answer. I never served in the armed forces and I suck @ video games but the guys who have respect my knowledge about firearms and grossly exaggerate my shooting skill. I was a comp shooter for many years and I met some awesome shooters, I know I'm not one. I don't keep up with the "latest and greatest" very well because I like my old S&W revolvers and 1911's just fine, nowadays SA revolvers and leverguns are more my speed.
I did have the opportunity to serve a local PD as a reserve officer for 25 years. May have been "just a reserve" but I had the pleasure of helping to train reserves who went on to become some of their best officers over the years as well as helping with schools attended by officers from across the country.
When I'm behind the parts counter at a Ford dealer (pays the bills!) or the gun counter I just grin when some silly person comes in thinking he knows more about the subject at hand than I do, 9 times out of ten he got his info fresh off the internet from someone who claims to be an expert. After awhile they figure out that I've been doing what I do for over 30 years and may be able to help them with their problem. If not I just smile and try not to assess the armchair expert surcharge.

[Recluse]

I love hanging out at gun shops so much that a few over the years consider me an unpaid employee and put me to work when things are busy or a customer has a question that I'm better qualified or more willing to answer. I never served in the armed forces and I suck @ video games but the guys who have respect my knowledge about firearms and grossly exaggerate my shooting skill. I was a comp shooter for many years and I met some awesome shooters, I know I'm not one. I don't keep up with the "latest and greatest" very well because I like my old S&W revolvers and 1911's just fine, nowadays SA revolvers and leverguns are more my speed.
I did have the opportunity to serve a local PD as a reserve officer for 25 years. May have been "just a reserve" but I had the pleasure of helping to train reserves who went on to become some of their best officers over the years as well as helping with schools attended by officers from across the country.
When I'm behind the parts counter at a Ford dealer (pays the bills!) or the gun counter I just grin when some silly person comes in thinking he knows more about the subject at hand than I do, 9 times out of ten he got his info fresh off the internet from someone who claims to be an expert. After awhile they figure out that I've been doing what I do for over 30 years and may be able to help them with their problem. If not I just smile and try not to assess the armchair expert surcharge.

I have got to meet your acquaintance at some point and buy you lunch.

:coffee:

[pipehand]

On my last power plant job, we had a young helper who happened to have one of those smart phones. Young helper had zero real experience in the trade, but knew how to use the Google feature on his phone. He was then immediately an expert. Guess whose handle became "Google"?

[TXGunNut]

I have got to meet your acquaintance at some point and buy you lunch.

:coffee:

That would be my pleasure, we can armwrestle over the check. May be able to win that until you get rehabbed a bit more. :wink:
I'm thinking you're about an hour south of the metromess, I'm on the northern edge. Been thinking about a trip to the Elite Grille in Waco lately. There are a few exhibits in the Ranger Hall I want to revisit.

[bob208]

i visit another site. they do not belive a revolver is a usable gun for self defense. i did not know there were that many people making 1911 pistols either. when i bought mine you had a choice of a colt or a surpluss one. now it seams the more letters you put in the model the deadler it is.

the one time i retruned fire was with a single action ruger blackhawk. was i lucky? dumb for even trying it?

[Thumbcocker]

Look on the bright side. Last Sunday 2 youngsters showed up on the range with shiny new plastic pistols. I was shooting a single action .44. I had plenty of time to rest when they ran their 7 yard combat drills. I left with 172 once fired cases.

[runfiverun]

you know,, a one-step die from bt sniper, 40S&W brass and a 180 gr 38 cal boolit makes real nice 44 mag bullets.

[dakotashooter2]

I actually prefer my revolver................ I figure I can line up 2 or 3 punks and get them all with one shot from my .41 mag and cast bullets........... won't be doing that with a 9mm.....................LOL...................

[JesterGrin_1]

I do not care if it is an Auto or a Revolver or Single action. As my simple rule of thumb that I was taut is to make each round count.

You will not see me at the range just blowing ammo off like it is Free like so many I see today.


But my preferred Handgun is either a Revolver or a Single Action .44 Mag With CAST BOOLITS. :)

[Nanook]

I've messed around with guns for over 30 years, but do not consider myself any kind of expert. You learn something almost every day if you're paying attention. I did not serve either, and I never pretend to have done so. What kind of no-life would do something like that? I have the utmost respect for veterans, especially combat veterans.

I just like to shoot, mostly targets. I rarely hunt, in fact I can't remember the last time I went. Decades ago, I'm sure. Just not for me, but I'll help eat that venison. LOL


I like all sorts of guns, but lately I find myself drawn to benchrest shooting. I really like lever actions and bolt guns too. I also recommend revolvers to new shooters, and it's because they're easier to learn at first. And they're reliable as well.

I do get a laugh at some gun store antics, on both sides of the counters. People can be strange sometimes. I've never encountered the type of woman mentioned by the OP, or her mate. That would something new to see. Out where I live you don't see that sort much. Too far from the city and the things they like.

[Adam10mm]

I do not care if it is an Auto or a Revolver or Single action. As my simple rule of thumb that I was taut is to make each round count.

You will not see me at the range just blowing ammo off like it is Free like so many I see today.


But my preferred Handgun is either a Revolver or a Single Action .44 Mag With CAST BOOLITS. :)
Pretty similar to me. I only own three firearms right now; 10mm 1911, .22LR Stevens bolt, and a single shot NEF 20ga. The bulk of my hunting has been done with that shotgun I was gifted at 12yo. In the ~20 years I've had it, I put about 10,000 rounds through it. Other than a few rounds of clays, just about every time the trigger was pulled, a squirrel, rabbit, grouse, pheasant, crow, or deer was killed. That's how I was taught. You concern yourself with the round in the chamber and none else. If I had to reload that gun to finish the job, man alive my grandfather and all three uncles would ride me hard for months on end. Happened a few times, hunting is never perfect.

My handgun of choice is my 10mm 1911. I built it, I cast the bullets, and I load the ammo. It's my carry gun, my home defense gun, my hunting pistol, and my livestock slaughtering tool of choice. Yeah it's a "newfangled cartridge ruining the legacy of the 1911" but it duplicates the .357 Mag ballistics in the platform of the 1911. Everything about it feels right to me when it's in my hand.

[Gliden07]

The clerk should have quoted Dirty Harry!! I do like the internet for info but there's things ya have to remember about it. 1-There is a lot of good information on the net, but there's a lot of bad information too! 2-There is always someone that knows more than you about a subject, be willing to listen and learn. 3-Never disrespect people when you ask there opinion, even if you disagree with them, hold your tongue and walk away you can't argue with stupidity!! That seems to be the biggest problem with our society today there is no tolerance for opposing opinions right or wrong. I bought an M&P 9C the clerk that sold it to me was a younger guy (20 somethings) carrying a 357 Smith revolver, I asked him why a revolver over a Semi Auto Pistol and he gave me some good reasons. I personally like auto pistols but I asked, listened and considered his opinion. Whats wrong with that?

There's another thread on this site that is about the "TACTICAL" selling point that a lot of people seem to be taking up. That's the one that gets me!! Running around dressed in fatigues with the latest in "TACTICOOL" is the thing that drive me nuts!! Go to the range and practice, listen to more experienced shooters and make informed decisions. This has always worked for me and I've learned a lot along the way! And join a really GREAT website where there are way smarter people to help you!!

[Matt_G]

J.D.
What are the odds of you getting in your Cessna or car and coming out to see us @ NCBS in May?

[linotype]

+1 on the revolver for beginners. Keep it simple.
And, there is only so much you can do with brag in a fire fight. [smilie=s:

[fecmech]

I shot PPC back in the day and did fairly well at it so I guess that's the reason why I'm most comfortable with a revolver. My feelings are if I can't get it done in 6 shots it's just not going to get done. I'm not very "tactical", my bedside gun is a Model 15 .38spl with 358429 over a stiff dose of Unique and my carry gun is a Keltec .380. Hopefully I'll never have to use either one.

[Recluse]

J.D.
What are the odds of you getting in your Cessna or car and coming out to see us @ NCBS in May?

This May, the NRA Annual Meeting is down the road in Houston, so I've budgeted my time and funds for that.

I'm not overly keen on flying west of I-25 in this 172. It's really underpowered for the altitudes out there and my biggest challenge is always finding a pass to fly through. The old 182 had no problems whatsoever, and when it comes to altitude and hauling ability, I do miss that plane. I don't miss thirteen gallons per hour fuel consumption, though.

I'm a flatlander pilot and readily admit it. :) East of I-25 suits me well.


I shot PPC back in the day and did fairly well at it so I guess that's the reason why I'm most comfortable with a revolver. My feelings are if I can't get it done in 6 shots it's just not going to get done. I'm not very "tactical", my bedside gun is a Model 15 .38spl with 358429 over a stiff dose of Unique and my carry gun is a Keltec .380. Hopefully I'll never have to use either one.

Agree and very well said.

:coffee:

[dakotashooter2]

Tell Jerry Miculek the revolver isn't relevant any more!!! The guy that thinks a revolver isn't relevant is likely to end up a casualty in a gun fight with one.................

[Matt_G]

I'm not overly keen on flying west of I-25 in this 172. It's really underpowered for the altitudes out there and my biggest challenge is always finding a pass to fly through. The old 182 had no problems whatsoever, and when it comes to altitude and hauling ability, I do miss that plane. I don't miss thirteen gallons per hour fuel consumption, though.

I'm a flatlander pilot and readily admit it. :) East of I-25 suits me well.
Well, I can certainly understand that.
When I was going to school in the early eighties to get my A&P license, I had an instructor who liked to fly and had a 172.
I remember once, he went to Leadville (elev. 10,152) to visit someone and got stuck there for an extra day.
Said when he went to leave that summer Sunday afternoon, the density altitude was such that that 172 was above its service ceiling sitting on the tarmac at Leadville's airport. :-P

[Recluse]

Well, I can certainly understand that.
When I was going to school in the early eighties to get my A&P license, I had an instructor who liked to fly and had a 172.
I remember once, he went to Leadville (elev. 10,152) to visit someone and got stuck there for an extra day.
Said when he went to leave that summer Sunday afternoon, the density altitude was such that that 172 was above its service ceiling sitting on the tarmac at Leadville's airport. :-P

Lot of unprepared pilots crash and die in the western mountains. Flying in those mountains is a whole nother way of flying. I've always swore that if I were to ever plan a trip or two out that way, I'd budget in an extra four or so days to take some mountain flying lessons in Colorado.

Things like winds and weather patterns and turbulence patterns all change west of the Rockies, and in a big sort of way. For small aircraft like mine, accepted practice is that you get your flying in all before lunch time.

Friend of mine almost died when he figured he could land in the mid-afternoon at the higher elevations in Colorado, but what he (stupidly) did not plan for was a botched approach and the subsequent go around. I ALWAYS plan for an aborted landing at any strange or unfamiliar airport. He didn't and in his attempt to power up and go around, the density altitude got him. He spent several MONTHS recovering in a Denver area hospital.

Lots of folks fly out there, but that's their home air and they're comfortable and knowledgeable about it. I'm not and don't even pretend to be. I've got this ever-increasing yellow streak running down my back--but it's kept me out of some potentially bad, if not deadly situations.

My wife is wanting to see Utah and Idaho and parts of Nevada where I spent a lot of time while in the Air Force, so I figure a trip out that way is definitely in the plans. I may just borrow a friend's turbo 210 and not have to worry about the altitudes so much, even moreso since he has O2 on board.

:coffee:

[Lance Boyle]

I see lots of big mouthed idjits at my friend's gunshop. My friend is pretty polite to most folks and lets them flap their gums with their favorite flavor of stupidity. Sometimes I catch his eye as I roll mine as the "commando ninja's" spout off. I'm certainly no superhero as that's some weird kind of sandwich. I had 9 years in the service, 3 infantry (USMCR), 2 mech inf mortar maggot (NG), and 4 as an MP (NG). None of my service was all that difficult or inspiring. I did meet some serious bad A's. One colonel I met cleared charges while hanging from the underside of a bridge.........while under fire in VN. (There's medals and a few book mentions, he is legit and just passed away a few years ago) He was probably one of the most respectful officers I ever met, he really treated the enlisted guys like professionals. When people sometimes thank me for my service I tend to correct them as i didn't do that kind of service. I just did some training, that's all, there's plenty of real vets out there to thank.

[David2011]

One day in a really nice gun store in Baton Rouge a customer kept badgering the clerk for some kind of magic round that would turn a 1911 in .45 ACP into a defensive gun for bear in Alaska. After the clerk, with whom I had had many previous discussions, failed to make an impression with this guy that there wasn't a round like he wanted on the face of the Earth I pitched in. Quietly and calmly, I told him that if he shot a bear with a .45 ACP the bear would eat him. Somehow he seemed to grasp the concept.

David

[Blacksmith]

If the revolver is not relevant in this world you better not tell Ed McGivern or he might show you a thing or two.


Ed McGivern is renowned as one of the best handgunners that ever lived. His Guinness world record for "The greatest rapid-fire feat" (set on August 20, 1932 at the Lead Clube Range, South Dakota) still stands.


McGivern, along with his friend Elmer Keith, were instrumental in pushing the envelope in the early days of magnum revolvers. While Keith was primarily interested in hunting, McGivern was more interested in police use of the revolver. McGivern demonstrated that with proper sights and use, the .357 Magnum could be used on man-sized targets at ranges of up to 600 yards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u97RJQYuiBA

ED MCGIVERN'S BOOK OF FAST AND FANCY REVOLVER SHOOTING
http://www.hamiltonbook.com/Fishing-Hunting/ed-mcgiverns-book-of-fast-and-fancy-revolver-shooting

Get the book it will make you rethink revolvers.

[shdwlkr]

First off if I am taking a new shooter out I like to start them with a 22 revolver most of the time a single action it is much easier to show them just how the revolver works.
Second we move up to a double action revolver in 38 spl and then on too a 357 mag all revolvers.
Third if they want we move onto a 22 auto again it is a good place to begin and then on too a 45 auto so they know the difference.
Fourth most like the double action revolver and that is what they purchase.

Now a little story that happened two weeks ago in Sportsman's Warehouse, the salesman was trying to sell this person a 380 revolver as a defense weapon that he could reload for. I made the mistake of jumping all over the salesman and telling the customer that the 380 most often fires a 90 grain bullet while the 38spl, 357 mag can fire a 125, 140,158, 170 grain bullets also got into a discussion on how the 380 uses .355 bullets while the others use a .357 bullet. Clerk said well it is only .002 larger so what is the big deal. At that point I walked away saying something like where in the **** did they dig these guys up.
I know I am not smart have only been around, using and learning about firearms for over 50 years so I am not the most knowledgeable person and have only owned a few hundred firearms over the years so again I am a newbie but dang why arm someone with such a small caliber as the real deal in defense of themselves.
Now before any one jumps all over me, yes I know folks that have and use that caliber, but they also have spent many hours learning, using and testing what that caliber can and can not do.

As to military I did my thing and many feel it was just putting in my time but you know some individuals don't need medals or anything to remember what they saw, did and were asked to do when in Uncle's keep. Yes I was on paper a Reservist you know those who never did a dam thing but collect their pay. Well for anyone that did real time answer me this in 7 years in I went up a pay grade every year and was up for E8 when I walked away, for over 30 years after I walked Uncle kept track of me and even sent me material to stay up on my skill sets. So I must have been totally useless when in and they just wanted to keep in touch because we were such good friends. There are some smells that I can't get out of my head even 35 years later, some sounds still have me on edge, I can't go to a Memorial Day Parade anymore as the last one I went to some jerks could not understood folks standing at attention or a hand over their heart and head gear off when the flag passed by. I almost got myself into trouble that time and I stay away now not good for the heart anymore. Yes I know one day I will again be with my brothers and sisters in Arms but I hope it is along time coming, see I think I have somethings to get done first before I can go home.

I refer to my time in the military as being the pimple on the Army's butt that they could not scratch. In a way it sort of sums up my time quite nicely. I talk to veterans a lot and you know most that have seen real action open up to me about things they saw, endured and lived through a lot and we have some real conversations and even ask me how to deal with some things and yes I give them how I deal with things and if they need it who to go see for mental health issues.

I feel no obligation to beat my chest as that hurts, but dang it Recluse and others what happened to all the real people in this country? When did knowing little to nothing make you an expert on anything. I admit I am still learning and questioning as I have so little knowledge to work with.