Why are "Frosted" bullets considered rejects?

[milrifle]

I see a lot of folks say frosted is OK. Then there are others that still say they are rejects. I'm still new to this and most of my bullets come out frosted and I use them. I am, however, curious as to why some say they are rejects? I've just never heard the reasoning behind the theory.

[Alan in Vermont]

I have my share of rejects but frosting is not a consideration in my inspection practices. IMO, there's nothing wrong with a frosted boolit that a trip down the barrel won't cure.

[runfiverun]

frosting to me means rounded driving bands/corners and unequal weights.
others say it helps hold tumble lube better.

[rintinglen]

Heavily frosted boolits are almost always undersized, and hence, should be thrown back in the pot to be reincarnated.

Lightly frosted boolits are perfectly useable and in fact, that is the condition I strive for when trying for best fill out and maximum production.

Unevenly frosted boolits are definitely rejects, the frosted area will almost certainly be poorly filled out.

[milrifle]

I would have guessed that rounded corners would be caused by a cold mould like wrinkles? Perhaps I'm wrong. I have never noticed rounded corners on any of my frosted bullets, but I will look closer from now on. In my short experience (All in Lee two cavity moulds), I seem to either get wrinkles or frosting. My theory has been, given the choice, frosting is better than wrinkles. If I could get nice shiney bullets with no wrinkles, I'd cetainly like that, if for no other reason, they're pretty.

[Chicken Thief]

Who said that?
Have never had a shot deer complain, ever!

[geargnasher]

The order of appearance/dimension of typical non-eutectic ternary alloy as the mould temperature increases:

1. Shiny, wrinkled, undersized boolits with severely rounded everything.
2. Shiny, wrinled and sorta filled out edges.
3. shiny, smooth, and filled out sharply, largest size the mould will throw with that alloy (most of the time).
4. shiny, smooth, but edges rounded and severely frosted white. still full-diameter. I reject all of these.
5. Light, satin frost and razor-sharp fillout. The frost will wipe off with a dry rag revealing a shiny surface. This is an easy window of mould temperature to maintain, and simple enough to make a long run of consistent boolits maintaining mould temperature with only the visual aid of the boolit's appearance and sprue freeze time. It also makes an ideal temperature of boolit for water-quench hardening.
6. Same, but starting to shrink the middle bands from excessive heating or pouring too fast.
7. Frost getting heavier, edges starting to get slightly rounded-off again. Entire boolit starting to become undersized.
8. Heavy frost, pitted, sandblasted surface, frost will not wipe off with a dry rag, looks like freshly broken cast iron, edges very rounded. Sprues usually smearing molten lead across the top of the blocks and building up under the sprue plate. Reject all of these and cool the mould.

Gear

[MtGun44]

I try to run at #5 without wandering into #6. Sometimes manage #3, but usually pass through it on the way to #5.

Bill

[357shooter]

Great list. I usually live at number 5 too, rarely getting into 6.

[fecmech]

Thanks for the write up Gear. I have a friend who has just started casting and I will print this and give it to him.

[Springfield]

From personal observation I think 4 is in the wrong place. I can go from perfectly filled and shiny to perfectly filled and frosty. I usually get #4 when my alloy is too hot but the mould is not hot enough.

[DrCaveman]

As usual, I think gear nailed it.

Interesting how 3 and 5 are both really good, while 4 is rejected.

I wonder how many times I have inadvertently dropped a large portion of a run at that temp. Guess rounded edges would be the tell tale, but I use a healthy amount of tin so might be getting a little different results.

I used to try to get all the boolits frosty, prob between 5 and 6 on the scale. Realized I was getting a lot of undersized boolits so now I run the mold til they get frosty, then back the furnace down a few clicks and let the mold air cool for a minute or so.

This has been dropping shiny, sharp, full diameter boolits. I think it would be 3 on the scale.

I may even have to remove some beagling I added since I have gotten better at finding this temp.

[milrifle]

Gear,

I really appreciate you taking the time to write out that response. Thank you very much.

[1Shirt]

Nice post gear. Like MtGun, I run as close as possible to your #5. A little frosting on the nose is fine. Got over a fascination for shiney objects when I was a kid.
1Shirt!

[Shiloh]

I shoot mine. We're talking Gears #5 or slightly higher. Mildly Flawed boolit get sorted and fired as foulers or plinking. Any major flaws go back in the pot

Shiloh

[runfiverun]

springfield i'm sure uses lee 6 cav molds the most.
i generally run my aluminum in the 3 area and the steel ones at the 5 area.
i keep the alloy on the cold side once the mold is in it's zone.
cold alloy is generally in the 650-675 area to me.

[MtGun44]

I wonder where this whole "frosty is bad" thing started? IMO, a touch too hot
usually gives me superior fillout. Certainly you can start burning out tin, but I
cast a large batch and quickly so the tin burning doesn't seem to be much, if any,
problem.

Bill

[longbow]

I shoot for #5 too (no pun intended).

I find that using straight wheelweights or range scrap I generally produce slightly frosted boolits to get good fillout. A little frosting never hurt my feelings as long as the edges are sharp.

Very good observations and list Gear! I am sure many will find that useful.

Longbow

[David2011]

Great post, Gear! Worthy of stickiness IMO.

David

[runfiverun]

it's allready linked to my "something" sticky.

[SlippShodd]

I wonder where this whole "frosty is bad" thing started? Bill

"Frosted bullets, or bullets which break apart easily, suggest that the melt and/or the mould is too hot. Properly cast bullets will have crisp edges, and will appear clean and bright."
Lyman 47th Reloading Handbook, Page 116.

"Localized frosting, which typically occurs near the handle cutouts, almost always contains some cracks which extend into the bullet interior. Also, the localized, frosted area is frequently depressed for lack of feed metal. This can be detrimental to bullet balance.
Uniformly frosted bullets normally weigh and measure identical to non-frosted bullets and shoot just as well. Their appearance is objectionable to many casters, though, and most try to minimalize or eliminate the cause."
RCBS Cast Bullet Manual number 1, pages 20 and 21, "Cast Bullet Defects."

Despite RCBS' disclaimer as to shootability of the frosted boolits (is it vanilla frosting? yum!), the text is within a chapter associated with wrinkled, rounded, finned, winged, pocked, out-of-round and otherwise atrocious examples of casting. Oh, the horror. Oh, the context.
The Lyman page shows example illustrations of wrinkled, proper and frosted boolits, the context of which suggests that only the centerfold is acceptable.
Neither text suggests wiping the frost off with a rag to expose the glittery gem beneath.
To the novice it has to be confusing. I know it was for me decades ago when I got started. I remember somebody giving me a withering look and saying, "Just shoot the f@#$%^* bullet!"
Where'd the idea come from?
The "gospels." Of course.

mike

[Recluse]

I see a lot of folks say frosted is OK. Then there are others that still say they are rejects. I'm still new to this and most of my bullets come out frosted and I use them. I am, however, curious as to why some say they are rejects? I've just never heard the reasoning behind the theory.


I wonder where this whole "frosty is bad" thing started? IMO, a touch too hot
usually gives me superior fillout. Certainly you can start burning out tin, but I
cast a large batch and quickly so the tin burning doesn't seem to be much, if any,
problem.

Bill

I think it's a carryover from newbies who are more concerned with the superficial aesthetics of their boolits than the quality and substance of them.

In other words, there can be no possible way an ugly semi-frosted tumble-lubed boolit in a non-spit shined and polished brass cartridge fired in an impeccably cleaned and detailed firearm can shoot well. :roll:

Bear in mind that many of those "my boolits HAVE to be shiny" crowd are also literally possessed by BHN hardness and convinced that if their boolits aren't BHN 394 or highter (and shiny, of course), that they're going to lead their barrels beyond repair.

Bill, I've lost count of the number of times you've correctly pointed out that hardness is not nearly the important factor so many people claim or mistakenly think it is.

Again, I blame these ridiculous "opinions" on casters/reloaders looking for quick information via YouTube and online commando sites where anyone with a smart phone and a single-stage press can become an instant internet authority on all things reloading.

I'm about to the point to where if someone is smart enough to find our site, but too dumb to listen and learn, I just put them on my Ignore list and move on.

:coffee:

[PbHurler]

What's the prescribed cure for localized frosting? I occasionally run into it when running straight WW. FWIW, Lyman 429421 2-cavity mould

Rate of pour, add a "titch" of tin?

[bobthenailer]

I run at #5 only , pot temp 650* , preheat moulds to about 350*, also pre heat ingots around 350* that i add to the pot while casting, time my sprue cut off time with a large stop watch or watching the color of the sprue , water drop from the mould lnto room temp water, size bullets right after casting , use a small fan blowing on the sprue to speed up solidfication if time starts to go over 10 seconds, flux pot and lube mould every 15 to 20 min.

[prs]

I don't want to futz around, a good brisk pace with a hot mould puts me at #5 and liking it.

prs

[Calamity Jake]

With preheated molds and the right alloy temp I get #5 from the very first pour, that's the way I like it.
This doesn't happen 100% of the time as each mold is as different as you and me, some of my molds I don't use much
so it is a learning curve when I do us them.

[runfiverun]

depends on where the localized frosting is.
you can control mold temps with a damp rag.
if it's the base you can pour a smaller sprue and let that cool down.
if it's on the side tip the mold the other way.
or alternate the cavitys filling order.

[snuffy]

Again, I blame these ridiculous "opinions" on casters/reloaders looking for quick information via YouTube and online commando sites where anyone with a smart phone and a single-stage press can become an instant internet authority on all things reloading.

I'm about to the point to where if someone is smart enough to find our site, but too dumb to listen and learn, I just put them on my Ignore list and move on.


My feelings exactly! Good to see you back posting JD. Feeling better, and healing? I hope so.

Here's what I try to do, and often succeed. I call this #5 on gear's list. It helps to have a great mold like this, mihec 200 RNFPHP cramer.(.452)

63436

These are .429-300's that I consider heavily frosted, BUT they are full dia., filled out well,(except that small wrinkle), and shot well.

63434

Then when everything's just right, the right alloy, temp, and cooling on a wet sponge, you can get these.

63435

[Bigslug]

I wonder where this whole "frosty is bad" thing started?

I think it's because we're descended from monkeys who were easily impressed by shiny objects. Consider gold and precious gems: they're practically worthless for all but a small handful of non-decorative applications (most of them fairly recent developments), but for most of human history we've knocked each other over the head for them. Why? Because they're SHIIIINY, and a correct application of them can get us laid.

But if you're hoping to score with the sheen of your cast projectiles, you are probably, in the words of Led (hee!) Zeppelin, "tryin' to find a woman who's never, never, never been born".

[fouronesix]

I think it's because we're descended from monkeys who were easily impressed by shiny objects.

Brilliant! Also probably explains why nickel plated pistols are so popular :)

On cast bullets- my goal is #5 on gear's list. Don't always achieve it but always try.

[montana_charlie]

I am impressed by 'Geargnasher's Scale of Bullet Quality".
It actually does break down the 'visual indication' into something quantifiable for someone who hasn't 'seen it all', yet.
But, while the scale can guide a caster toward knowing what to rate as 'keepers', it doesn't answer the question about 'why' frosting is considered 'bad'.

That comes from decades of books which say that frosting indicates excessive temperature.

If you are starving, you will glom down anything you can catch. But, if you are paying attention to your food, you know the difference between a pie crust that is 'just right' and one which stayed in the oven a bit longer than it should have.
It takes almost 'no scorching at all' to ruin the flavor of a saucepan of creamed corn.
In other words, in most aspects of life we really do know 'right' when we see it.
But, for a variety of reasons, sometimes we are willing to accept 'second best'.

The 'Stage 3' bullet shows the caster how the most correct ratio of time, temperature, and alloy will indicate visually.
Once the bullet presents in that condition, casting cadence will (usually) keep things in that stage.
But, if that doesn't produce bullets fast enough (for the impatient), then Stage 5 is there for those willing to take 'second best' and call it good enough.

And, actually, it probably is 'good enough'. The functional difference between a Stage 3 bullet and it's Stage 5 counterpart may be nothing more than 'imagination'. The real question comes down to the caster's eye when determining if a given bullet really does meet the requirements of Stage 3 or 5.

The bullets from both of those stages have "razor sharp corners".

Judging from pictures posted (over the months) and the comments that follow them, a large percentage of our membership can't identify a 'razor sharp' corner. It's very unusual to see somebody post a picture of a truly sharp base, and when it happens nobody even remarks on that rare thing.

If your eyes can't tell the difference, use your sense of touch.
A sharp base will feel sharp and harsh when you drag your finger over it. If it feels silky and friendly, it's round ... and it's a cull.

So, a frosty bullet may deserve a Stage 5 rating, but your bullet isn't Stage 5 just because it's frosty.

CM

[303Guy]

Gear, are you sure #3 and #4 are in the right order? I know funny things happen with temperature changes, both casting and mold temps but just checking.

Gear's write-up should go into the 'Casting 101' sticky. It's a very good, simple and clear description and very informative too! It doesn't cover how alloy changes might affect things but that's another level and wasn't the original question but it would be interesting. [smilie=1:

Add montana_charlie's post to that '101'!

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I do all my casting with straight ACCOWW and Lee molds (haven't gone uptown, yet..) As my mold temp is coming up, my boolits go from shiny and wrinkled to lightly frosted and sharp with out much of anything in between. Slow sprue cooling and lead smears seem to show up and get cured before the boolits get heavily frosted. I always figured a little more tin might help fillout at a lower temp and result in shiny boolits, but I am too cheap to bother.

[MtGun44]

SlippShodd,

Thanks for the post! Good thing I had been casting for years before I ever bought
the Lyman book and have never bought the RCBS book.

Bill

[SlippShodd]

... and have never bought the RCBS book.

Bill

I've never bought it either -- they were giving them away with paid admission to a gun show years ago. :) It's a bit of a thin book, both in stature and content.

mike

[dragonrider]

"Heavily frosted boolits are almost always undersized, and hence, should be thrown back in the pot to be reincarnated."

exactly.

[bruce381]

I dump them all back untill I'm at #5 then i cool mold if need be with a damp rag

[kir_kenix]

I'm a bigger fan of shooting then casting...I shoot my frosted boolits. No sense of throwing something back into the pot that will still do its job. May even go so far as to say that I prefer frosted boolits, for the reasons stated above. I look for a well filled out boolit, and everything else is secondary for handgun boolits.

Most of my cast shooting for handguns is intended to be used at farily close range, and I'll even keep some that have wrinkles. Not massive wrinkles that get lube all over the place from the sizing, but small ones that don't seem to inhibit me pinging the steel targets at 25 yards. Everybody here has different needs, different expectations, and different requirments from their projectiles. I think we make way too big of deal sometimes about the quality of plinking boolits.

Now long range or small bore boolits are a whole 'nother story. I'm all about visually inspecting, weight sorting, and weighing every powder charge in my bench guns or .22 caliber rifles. I have a different expectation from these loads, and cast accordingly. I encourage an even frosting on my handgun boolits, but I don't make much of a fuss over tiny defects anyway.

[runfiverun]

jon.
the issue is i use boolits for everything.
i will grab the same box of ammo to go to the range or to go deer hunting.
sometimes i just stop while i am up hunting and just start target shooting/plinking,or up and leave the range and go deer/elk hunting.
i have even been known to use my 44 mag and 45/70 leverguns for prairie dog hunting :lol:

[SlippShodd]

i have even been known to use my 44 mag and 45/70 leverguns for prairie dog hunting :lol:

Is this an issue? :confused:
The ground squirrels are cursing the day I beagled a .45 Colt mould and mounted them over 11 grains of Unique in the long brass for the Marlin. And some days the .44 is what's on my hip or pickup seat when I'm at the ranch and rock chucks rear their heads.
Do we need to be in a program?

mike

[Case Stuffer]

Most of my cast shooting for handguns is intended to be used at farily close range, and I'll even keep some that have wrinkles. Not massive wrinkles that get lube all over the place from the sizing, but small ones that don't seem to inhibit me pinging the steel targets at 25 yards. Everybody here has different needs, different expectations, and different requirments from their projectiles. I think we make way too big of deal sometimes about the quality of plinking boolits.



Me too. It takes a very poor quality boolit to not shoot a 6-8 in group at 25 yards and if one is shooting fairly fast double and triple taps they are not very likely to shoot 12" groups if they are mere mortals.

I use to save every 230 .45 RN cast no matter how bad they were wrinkled,frosted, etc . and I loaded them in well worn brass for my Mac 10 spray and pray. On occasion I would end up short on quality SWC loads for my IPSC 45 during a practice / plinking session at the club range and would shot some of my Mac loads and they never were all that terrible. Not bulls ee match grade but would still serve well for man size targets at 20 feet and shot placement accuracy would still be adaquate IMO.

[rockrat]

Most all my boolits come out frosted. I shoot them anyhow.


Don't remember if this is my 308 or 338. Velocity should be about 2200fps. Accuracy just terrible isn't it. 100yds
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d149/Bigdog337/001-6-3-1-1-2.jpg

[MtGun44]

See, rockrat - proof that those frosted boolits are no good. :bigsmyl2:


Foolishly, I,too, ignored the books and asked Mr. Target about it. Got the same answer.

Bill

[Recluse]

See, rockrat - proof that those frosted boolits are no good. :bigsmyl2:


Foolishly, I,too, ignored the books and asked Mr. Target about it. Got the same answer.

Bill

I asked Mr. Wild Pig a time or two, but I didn't get any answer.

They was all dead.

:coffee:

[SlippShodd]

Don't remember if this is my 308 or 338. Velocity should be about 2200fps. Accuracy just terrible isn't it. 100yds


I've saved all my targets over the years that have Mickey Mouse-head groups at 100 on them, but I know exactly what gun, what load they were... 'cuz that's the load they were fed from that day on. :wink:

mike

[Ohio Rusty]

I don't like frosted boolits when I am casting HP pistol rounds as I've discovered that the HP gets brittle and can /crackbreak instead of expand and peel back because the lead was so hot. I have to watch that and cool the mould a bit when working with HP's.
The photo below shows what happened to the HP nose of the boolit as the lead got hotter and hotter and the boolits started getting frosty. The noses became brittle and were breaking off. This straight WW's with a little tin added.
The mould started off cool ( you can see wrinkles and fill out issue) then a nice one, then brittle when frosty.

Ohio Rusty ><>
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v372/OhioRusty/CastBoolits.jpg

[texasnative46]

To ALL,

My brother-of-the-heart, C.E Harris, has forgotten more about bullet-casting than most "veteran casters" know.
(I, otoh, am a shooter rather than a caster/reloader, except by financial necessity.)

Ed tells me that ALL-OVER frosted bullets that are fully filled out work BETTER, if I plan to lube them with liquid ALOX, in .38/.357 AND my 9mm Sig P6. =====> As a shooter, I have found that he is 100% correct, as the ALOX sticks to frosted better than than to shiny bullets.
(Using the same 124 or 140GR .358 mould for all of those handgun rounds.)

NOTE to other "beginners", like me: Ed says to "water quench" the bullets to be used for the 9mm, dry them throughly & then Liquid ALOX-dip them. - "Quenched" bullets need NOT be sized.
Otoh, for .38SPL, .357 MAG, etc. do NOT "water quench" NOR size them before ALOX-ing (if that's not a word, it should be) them.

Just my opinion, based on SHOOTING a LOT of Ed's 124grain cast bullets in my Sig P6, my old-school Colt's OP 4" & a Model 65 S&W 2.5" RB. - 4 grains of BULLSEYE works well for me in 9mm & .38SPL & makes even as much target shooting as I did downright CHEAP. Those loads are also "pure death" on TX rabbits & fox squirrels, w/o ruining much edible meat, even in my .38SPL single shot rifle. That load does NOT ruin pelts on coons, foxes & coyotes.
(Hoping that this is helpful to other "rank beginners".)

yours, TN46

[geargnasher]

Wow! I missed a bunch.

Ohio Rusty, that's a good picture, but lacks the good #5 I was talking about. It should have been just before or after number three from the left. I also notice that there was no well-filled #3 (shiny), which demonstrates the difficulty of hitting and maintaining that narrow temperature window of the mould where it occurs. That's the reason I don't mess with trying to achieve that stage with most of the alloys I use, more on that in a minute.

Runfiverun, if I'd known you were going to immortalize that I would have edited out all the typos, I was in a mad hurry to get that posted from work.

MC: I was addressing a previous poster's question on the thread, not necessarily the OP's. I do believe the original question has been well-answered. My post was not intended to be the King's Decree, either, only an outline of my own experience. You're absolutely right about sharp bases, but much of what you said about finish appearance between #3 and #5 is irrelevant to accuracy and borders on snobbishness.

With regard to the #4 on my 'scale' of mould temperature and the results with, say straight wheel weight alloy, some may not see that point on the scale due to alloy composition, mould material, pouring technique, etc. I find it fairly typical with WW and Lee moulds, which is probably the most common casting situation on the board. I wanted to point it out because I think a great number of people reach this point, just beyond shiny and filled out, see the white, rotted-looking edges on their driving bands, and assume they went too far. Depending on your perspective, that was either too far up the mould temp scale, or not far enough, but I wanted to point that out to folks who haven't been curious enough to experiment with what lies beyond #4 due to too much "conventional thinking".

What everyone needs to keep in mind about fillout and mould temp is that most of us use scrap alloy with gawd knows what in it, most people don't flux properly to remove this stuff when "smelting" and ingotizing said scrap, and it's a royal pain to cast perfect, shiny boolits out of junk metal. Bump the mould temperature by increasing the casting tempo and the contaminated alloys, or alloys low in tin, are MUCH easier to get fully-filled out. That's the #5 stage, and things can be done with those boolits that most people on this board wouldn't believe. If you can make a perfect, shiny boolit out of wheel weight metal, more power to you, but I challenge anyone to show me that the advantage is anything more than cosmetic.

As to shooting culls in pistols where it doesn't matter so much, I feel that an experienced caster ought to take a little pride in what they do, but not obsess. I also feel that each person must set their own standards and do what makes them happy. If you're not happy with what you have, or your guns aren't THEN it's time to change.

Gear

[geargnasher]

Here's a small example of mould too hot, mould just right, and mould too cold from left to right, which would be the equivalent of #6 on the bands and #7 for sprue plate overtemp on the left boolits, #5 on the middle ones, and #2 from my chart. The boolit on the right from a zone in the mould temperature range that is almost correct for the alloy, and would probably have been fine if I'd poured a bigger puddle and gotten the sprue plate hotter to make the bases sharp. The slight wrinkle near the parting line probably would have taken care of itself after a few more casts at the same tempo due to the heat equalizing through the blocks. That was just a cold spot, most of the block mass was just right for #3s. This is air-cooled wheel weight alloy with 2% tin added and a brass mould.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28007&d=1293562439

Gear

[MtGun44]

Well said, Gear!

Bill

[montana_charlie]

MC:
much of what you said about finish appearance between #3 and #5 is irrelevant to accuracy and borders on snobbishness.

Which of this would this be the snobbish part?

The 'Stage 3' bullet shows the caster how the most correct ratio of time, temperature, and alloy will indicate visually.
Once the bullet presents in that condition, casting cadence will (usually) keep things in that stage.
But, if that doesn't produce bullets fast enough (for the impatient), then Stage 5 is there for those willing to take 'second best' and call it good enough.

And, actually, it probably is 'good enough'. The functional difference between a Stage 3 bullet and it's Stage 5 counterpart may be nothing more than 'imagination'.

[geargnasher]

CM, about half of your post seemed snobbish to me, including the part you quoted above. Stage 5 casting doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a man's patience, culture, taste in women, cigars, or pie crust: Some alloys simply will not fill out as well in the stage 3 mould temperature zone, and pass through it both ways without ever being acceptable, but the same alloys often will cast very well at stage 5 mould temperatures.

Gear

[45 2.1]

geargnasher and montana charlie............ There is actually nothing wrong with what either of you have said, only the way it was taken. Neither of you have overlapping interest in guns and the cast that is used in them, so what either has said is reasonable. Different generations and eras see things differently.......................

[montana_charlie]

CM, about half of your post seemed snobbish to me, including the part you quoted above. Stage 5 casting doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a man's patience, culture, taste in women, cigars, or pie crust: Some alloys simply will not fill out as well in the stage 3 mould temperature zone, and pass through it both ways without ever being acceptable, but the same alloys often will cast very well at stage 5 mould temperatures.

Gear
Oh! I had the wrong idea.
I figured you were convinced that I find Stage 3 to be 'good' and Stage 5 to be 'bad'. I felt that by saying, "The functional difference between a Stage 3 bullet and it's Stage 5 counterpart may be nothing more than 'imagination'. I made it clear that such is not my belief.

It never dawned on me that you could be upset if someone thought of you as 'impatient'.

So, I will wear your label of 'snobbish', deserved or not. But you will have to accept the label of 'petty'.

Thanks for coming back to finish this ...

Good day,
CM

[geargnasher]

You're welcome, CM, I endeavored to clarify at your request from the other thread.

But you're not getting off that easy to go sulk in your corner and label me in a "tit for tat" fashion. Regardless of what you meant by "petty" (in general or just on this thread, IDK), you're probably right about it, and I'm sorry for calling your post "snobbish" just because that was my impression at the time, and it wasn't necessary.

So you get to be right and I get to try to be a better person, win-win. I like that a lot better.

Carry on,

Gear

[montana_charlie]

You're welcome, CM, I endeavored to clarify at your request from the other thread.

But you're not getting off that easy to go sulk in your corner and label me in a "tit for tat" fashion. Regardless of what you meant by "petty" (in general or just on this thread, IDK), you're probably right about it, and I'm sorry for calling your post "snobbish" just because that was my impression at the time, and it wasn't necessary.

So you get to be right and I get to try to be a better person, win-win. I like that a lot better.

Carry on,

Gear
Well, geargnasher, I certainly didn't expect that.

I'm willing to call it even and start fresh, if you are.
We'll see how it works out next time we meet.

CM

[fcvan]

I've been away a few days and just read through this. Great posts, great pictures, but what Recluse said gave me a good chuckle:

"I asked Mr. Wild Pig a time or two, but I didn't get any answer. They was all dead."

Pretty targets full of holes, ugly piggies full of pretty holes. The best measure of success by far!

[.5mv^2]

I size all of my bullets. If they are too small to be sized down I recycle them.